The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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Maybe they could agree to help fund a more generous scrappage scheme.rjsterry said:
Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?Stevo_666 said:And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/
Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.
TFL are reducing some bus services near us at the same time as this which seems a strange thing to do.0 -
rjsterry said:
Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?Stevo_666 said:And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/
Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.
You might not have noticed, but the Tory guv'munt don't give two hoots about multiple U-turns. They've had no shame now since... well, Johnson might have had something to do with it.0 -
Luckily the outer London boroughs and home counties councils arerjsterry said:
Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?Stevo_666 said:And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/
Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/13/ulez-rebellion-grows-home-counties-refuse-co-operate-sadiq-khan/
Seems as if they've thought further than your lazy stereotype of non compliant car owners and considered car workers, teachers, nurses etc."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Don't most normal people?focuszing723 said:
Also, you could just use taxi's and rent a car for longer tripsfocuszing723 said:
Then lead by example and hand your keys in.rick_chasey said:
Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?kingstongraham said:I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.
They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.
Nope, you love the independence your car gives."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Refusing to warn drivers they are about to enter the zone doesn't seem in their best interests.0
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Not sure it is any of the Home Counties' business. And pretty rich of you to get upset about lazy stereotypes. Sure it will inconvenience some people. It's pretty f***ing inconvenient having my children on daily steroid inhalers. It's not as though there aren't alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
Luckily the outer London boroughs and home counties councils arerjsterry said:
Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?Stevo_666 said:And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/
Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/13/ulez-rebellion-grows-home-counties-refuse-co-operate-sadiq-khan/
Seems as if they've thought further than your lazy stereotype of non compliant car owners and considered car workers, teachers, nurses etc.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It would be fascinating to see how other evolved planets have developed in lots of different ways. It would/will be great when we can at least communicate with other intelligent matter forms, hopefully in a positive way.Stevo_666 said:
Don't most normal people?focuszing723 said:
Also, you could just use taxi's and rent a car for longer tripsfocuszing723 said:
Then lead by example and hand your keys in.rick_chasey said:
Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?kingstongraham said:I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.
They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.
Nope, you love the independence your car gives.0 -
Not upset, just pointing out that you used a lazy stereotype, which you seem to be annoyed about. It might make a difference in the centre of London bit out in the leafy suburbs the difference is probably naff all. Parts of Bromley Borough that will be in the expanded zone are properly rural.rjsterry said:
Not sure it is any of the Home Counties' business. And pretty rich of you to get upset about lazy stereotypes. Sure it will inconvenience some people. It's pretty f***ing inconvenient having my children on daily steroid inhalers. It's not as though there aren't alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
Luckily the outer London boroughs and home counties councils arerjsterry said:
Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?Stevo_666 said:And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/
Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/13/ulez-rebellion-grows-home-counties-refuse-co-operate-sadiq-khan/
Seems as if they've thought further than your lazy stereotype of non compliant car owners and considered car workers, teachers, nurses etc.
As I've said before, the air is better out here so move out if you really want good air, ULEZ or no ULEZ.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I bet advanced alien civilisations don't take the bus.focuszing723 said:
It would be fascinating to see how other evolved planets have developed in lots of different ways. It would/will be great when we can at least communicate with other intelligent matter forms, hopefully in a positive way.Stevo_666 said:
Don't most normal people?focuszing723 said:
Also, you could just use taxi's and rent a car for longer tripsfocuszing723 said:
Then lead by example and hand your keys in.rick_chasey said:
Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?kingstongraham said:I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.
They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.
Nope, you love the independence your car gives."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It won't be legally enforceable without the warnings. Will be fun to see this particular fight as Khan sees his cash grab getting spoiled.kingstongraham said:Refusing to warn drivers they are about to enter the zone doesn't seem in their best interests.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Or move it a few yards inside.Stevo_666 said:
It won't be legally enforceable without the warnings. Will be fun to see this particular fight as Khan sees his cash grab getting spoiled.kingstongraham said:Refusing to warn drivers they are about to enter the zone doesn't seem in their best interests.
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I work in central London, not at home (behind the sofa I think you used to call it) so don't need any more time commuting. The ULEZ has already improved air quality in central London but there's still plenty of room for improvement out in the outer boroughs like Sutton and Bromley. Here's the PM 2.5 trace for this week, for example.Stevo_666 said:
Not upset, just pointing out that you used a lazy stereotype, which you seem to be annoyed about. It might make a difference in the centre of London bit out in the leafy suburbs the difference is probably naff all. Parts of Bromley Borough that will be in the expanded zone are properly rural.rjsterry said:
Not sure it is any of the Home Counties' business. And pretty rich of you to get upset about lazy stereotypes. Sure it will inconvenience some people. It's pretty f***ing inconvenient having my children on daily steroid inhalers. It's not as though there aren't alternatives.Stevo_666 said:
Luckily the outer London boroughs and home counties councils arerjsterry said:
Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?Stevo_666 said:And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/
Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/13/ulez-rebellion-grows-home-counties-refuse-co-operate-sadiq-khan/
Seems as if they've thought further than your lazy stereotype of non compliant car owners and considered car workers, teachers, nurses etc.
As I've said before, the air is better out here so move out if you really want good air, ULEZ or no ULEZ.
So, we know there's harmful levels of pollution even in the leafy suburbs on the edge of London (and even in Sevenoaks if you look), and we know removing older vehicles, especially diesels helps reduce this. What's unfair about the people who are contributing more of that pollution having to pay?
By the way, I checked and Sevenoaks was slightly worse than Sutton last week.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Paywalled.rick_chasey said:
But it starts with "Portland", which if you've ever been there is the US's most cycle friendly city. Not sure it represents people trying to get around LA or Houston.0 -
I assume that we are just skipping past these sentences?
"The number of drivers on the world’s roads continues to rise almost everywhere. The distance driven by American motorists hit a new peak last year, according to data from the Federal Highway Administration."
I stopped reading at that point.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
pblakeney said:
I assume that we are just skipping past these sentences?
"The number of drivers on the world’s roads continues to rise almost everywhere. The distance driven by American motorists hit a new peak last year, according to data from the Federal Highway Administration."
I stopped reading at that point.The Supreme Court said in 1977 that having a car was a “virtual necessity” for anyone living in America. By 1997, 43% of the country’s 16-year-olds had driving licences. But in 2020, the most recent year for which figures are available, the number had fallen to just 25%. Nor is it just teenagers. One in five Americans aged between 20 and 24 does not have a licence, up from just one in 12 in 1983. The proportion of people with licences has fallen for every age group under 40, and on the latest data, is still falling. And even those who do have them are driving less. Between 1990 and 2017 the distance driven by teenage drivers in America declined by 35%, and those aged 20-34 by 18%. It is entirely older drivers who account for still increasing traffic, as baby-boomers who grew up with cars do not give them up in retirement.A similar trend is well-established in Europe. In Britain the proportion of teenagers able to drive has almost halved, from 41% to 21%, in the past 20 years. Across the countries of the European Union there are more cars than ever. Yet even before the covid-19 lockdowns emptied the roads, the average distance travelled by each one had fallen by more than a tenth since the turn of the millennium. (The exceptions were relatively new member states such as Poland.) Even in Germany, where the internal-combustion engine is an economic totem, drivers are pushing the brakes.
The trend is especially strong in big cities. One study of five European capitals—Berlin, Copenhagen, London, Paris and Vienna—found the number of driving trips made by working people was down substantially since a peak in the 1990s. In Paris the number of trips made per resident has fallen below the levels of the 1970s.0 -
Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.0 -
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I bet the reality of the situation is the wifes pushing for an SUV for the family.0
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Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.0 -
I don't understand why people who need to drive would want those who shouldn't need to drive to be on the road with them.0
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I'm certainly not hating on you, just that this place is virtual, but outside is reality.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
Listen to me bang on about cars like the Aptera. I would love to see that, but...0 -
More cars and fewer qualified drivers explains a lot about the standard of driving in London...0
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The paragraphs that you shared are city centric so I thought I'd show that I am not unsympathetic. The report still appears irrelevant on a countrywide basis. Miles are up.rick_chasey said:
My brain is clearly wired differently as I don't really see what your own experience has anything to do with the above.pblakeney said:Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Trends my friend, trends.pblakeney said:
The paragraphs that you shared are city centric so I thought I'd show that I am not unsympathetic. The report still appears irrelevant on a countrywide basis. Miles are up.rick_chasey said:
My brain is clearly wired differently as I don't really see what your own experience has anything to do with the above.pblakeney said:Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.
We all understand % changes don't we? Maybe we don't.0 -
pblakeney said:
The paragraphs that you shared are city centric so I thought I'd show that I am not unsympathetic. The report still appears irrelevant on a countrywide basis. Miles are up.rick_chasey said:
My brain is clearly wired differently as I don't really see what your own experience has anything to do with the above.pblakeney said:Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.Between 1990 and 2017 the distance driven by teenage drivers in America declined by 35%, and those aged 20-34 by 18%. It is entirely older drivers who account for still increasing traffic, as baby-boomers who grew up with cars do not give them up in retirement.0 -
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
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I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.0 -
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
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