The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

So who has now given up their car having heard all the persuasive arguments?

What's the point without reorientating the transport system away from cars?

That would be stupid.

focuszing723

Right.

Small lightweight minimalistic cars akin to the Aptera. With the evolution of safe autonomy the car won't need to be so robust, consequentially lighter less materials smaller footpint...

Also the ability to act as autonomous shared taxis. Trains are stupid because why add even more infrastructure, HS2 is a joke. It will be akin to a canal in the future.

Eventually vtols, minimal infrastructure required. That has to be the way forward. Designated altitude highways. Direct/efficient.

Cars are too big and shouldn't be mobile homes littered with gadgets. Simple minimal forms of transport to get from A to B.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

So who has now given up their car having heard all the persuasive arguments?

What's the point without reorientating the transport system away from cars?

That would be stupid.

Perhaps my approach is a bit simpler. I don't like cars and I don't like driving, so I don't have one. Seems to work.

focuszing723

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

So who has now given up their car having heard all the persuasive arguments?

What's the point without reorientating the transport system away from cars?

That would be stupid.

Perhaps my approach is a bit simpler. I don't like cars and I don't like driving, so I don't have one. Seems to work.

What would your ultimate form of transport be? Given current and realistic future technology?

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

So who has now given up their car having heard all the persuasive arguments?

What's the point without reorientating the transport system away from cars?

That would be stupid.

Perhaps my approach is a bit simpler. I don't like cars and I don't like driving, so I don't have one. Seems to work.

I have one, but it's 20 years old, and I use it as little as possible - I get no pleasure from driving either, it just gets me where I want to be. It would probably be overall cheaper not to have one and join a car-sharing club, but I'll probably hang on till it falls apart. I certainly can't see me needing one when I've retired from doing concerts in far-flung places (aka Devon). I'm kinda hoping the old car will see me out till then.

photonic69

focuszing723 said:

Right.

Small lightweight minimalistic cars akin to the Aptera. With the evolution of safe autonomy the car won't need to be so robust, consequentially lighter less materials smaller footpint...

Also the ability to act as autonomous shared taxis. Trains are stupid because why add even more infrastructure, HS2 is a joke. It will be akin to a canal in the future.

Eventually vtols, minimal infrastructure required. That has to be the way forward. Designated altitude highways. Direct/efficient.

Cars are too big and shouldn't be mobile homes littered with gadgets. Simple minimal forms of transport to get from A to B.

Some something like this fridge on wheels?

focuszing723

photonic69 said:

focuszing723 said:

Right.

Small lightweight minimalistic cars akin to the Aptera. With the evolution of safe autonomy the car won't need to be so robust, consequentially lighter less materials smaller footpint...

Also the ability to act as autonomous shared taxis. Trains are stupid because why add even more infrastructure, HS2 is a joke. It will be akin to a canal in the future.

Eventually vtols, minimal infrastructure required. That has to be the way forward. Designated altitude highways. Direct/efficient.

Cars are too big and shouldn't be mobile homes littered with gadgets. Simple minimal forms of transport to get from A to B.

Some something like this fridge on wheels?

Yep, smashing.

TheBigBean

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

So who has now given up their car having heard all the persuasive arguments?

What's the point without reorientating the transport system away from cars?

That would be stupid.

Perhaps my approach is a bit simpler. I don't like cars and I don't like driving, so I don't have one. Seems to work.

What would your ultimate form of transport be? Given current and realistic future technology?

Presumably self-driving, frequent, bus/tram/train with some walking involved. If you look at the car free bit of Freiburg, it is possible to drive, but very slowly, so deliveries can still be made by cars/vans. Anyone who wants to go anywhere gets on the tram.

Alternatively, something like the Barbican works well in more densely populated areas supported by an underground.

focuszing723

TheBigBean said:

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

So who has now given up their car having heard all the persuasive arguments?

What's the point without reorientating the transport system away from cars?

That would be stupid.

Perhaps my approach is a bit simpler. I don't like cars and I don't like driving, so I don't have one. Seems to work.

What would your ultimate form of transport be? Given current and realistic future technology?

Presumably self-driving, frequent, bus/tram/train with some walking involved. If you look at the car free bit of Freiburg, it is possible to drive, but very slowly, so deliveries can still be made by cars/vans. Anyone who wants to go anywhere gets on the tram.

Alternatively, something like the Barbican works well in more densely populated areas supported by an underground.

Not much of a stretch from what we have now then really.

briantrumpet

It's very annoying when there's an easy & cheap win on providing safe cycling lanes, but it's dismissed out of hand: the kind-of dual carriageway that goes south from the Exeter bypass (was the old A38 before the M5 had been invented) towards the A38/380 at Splatford Split now carries only minimal traffic most of the time, but it's quite fast.. in places they've narrowed it to one lane with white lines and hatching, but they could easily and *very cheaply* re-line it so that the LH lane is a bus/cycle lane - virtually no engineering involved. "No budget", I was told, when I wrote to DCC. My suspicion is that because it's not a big cycling project, they aren't as interested.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

It's very annoying when there's an easy & cheap win on providing safe cycling lanes, but it's dismissed out of hand: the kind-of dual carriageway that goes south from the Exeter bypass (was the old A38 before the M5 had been invented) towards the A38/380 at Splatford Split now carries only minimal traffic most of the time, but it's quite fast.. in places they've narrowed it to one lane with white lines and hatching, but they could easily and *very cheaply* re-line it so that the LH lane is a bus/cycle lane - virtually no engineering involved. "No budget", I was told, when I wrote to DCC. My suspicion is that because it's not a big cycling project, they aren't as interested.

Well they could, but then where would all the tractors go?

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

It's very annoying when there's an easy & cheap win on providing safe cycling lanes, but it's dismissed out of hand: the kind-of dual carriageway that goes south from the Exeter bypass (was the old A38 before the M5 had been invented) towards the A38/380 at Splatford Split now carries only minimal traffic most of the time, but it's quite fast.. in places they've narrowed it to one lane with white lines and hatching, but they could easily and *very cheaply* re-line it so that the LH lane is a bus/cycle lane - virtually no engineering involved. "No budget", I was told, when I wrote to DCC. My suspicion is that because it's not a big cycling project, they aren't as interested.

Can we just pause for a moment to appreciate the alliterative Splatford Split.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

It's very annoying when there's an easy & cheap win on providing safe cycling lanes, but it's dismissed out of hand: the kind-of dual carriageway that goes south from the Exeter bypass (was the old A38 before the M5 had been invented) towards the A38/380 at Splatford Split now carries only minimal traffic most of the time, but it's quite fast.. in places they've narrowed it to one lane with white lines and hatching, but they could easily and *very cheaply* re-line it so that the LH lane is a bus/cycle lane - virtually no engineering involved. "No budget", I was told, when I wrote to DCC. My suspicion is that because it's not a big cycling project, they aren't as interested.

Can we just pause for a moment to appreciate the alliterative Splatford Split.

Don't even think about slowing down, as someone will crash into the back of you: it's a terribly dangerous junction at the best of times, even without alliteration rubber-neckers.

Wheelspinner

Pross said:

Are you deliberately ignoring the fact that the vast majority of cyclist fatalities involve a motor vehicle? If you took motor vehicles off the road completely then cyclist deaths would probably be in single figures. Of course car driver / passenger deaths would still be zero so cycling would still be less safe on that metric.

And are you deliberately ignoring reading anything remotely classifiable as fact, statistics or data from your own UK authorities? Even when the link is in the post you’re criticising? Apparently so. Much easier to make stuff up and hypothesise, isn’t it?

That report linked earlier shows over a 5 year period that a total of 643 cyclists died on UK roads.

98 of those deaths were recorded as in accidents *with no other vehicles involved*. About 12% of the total.

So, greatly increasing the number of cyclists out on the roads without cars is obviously going to greatly reduce the number of deaths in that category, to “probably in single figures” as you state, because… how exactly? Wishful thinking?

photonic69

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

rick_chasey

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

The perils of sharing the same language as Americans, I feel.

Pross

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

Did you say hello to Stevo?

briantrumpet

Pross said:

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

Did you say hello to Stevo?

Are you calling Stevo a nutjob? 🤔

Stevo_666

Pross said:

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

Did you say hello to Stevo?

Fortunately I don't live anywhere near Oxford. You can get back under your bridge now

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

Did you say hello to Stevo?

Fortunately I don't live anywhere near Oxford. You can get back under your bridge now

I'm sure it's easy enough to get to in a car from your place.

kingstongraham

I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.

They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.

rick_chasey

kingstongraham said:

I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.

They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.

Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?

kingstongraham

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.

They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.

Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?

No, too many stops.

It was just the route 400 bus, which stopped about 6 times in Headington to allow people on. Should maybe stop once to let people off there and then go straight into the centre.

rick_chasey

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.

They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.

Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?

No, too many stops.

It was just the route 400 bus, which stopped about 6 times in Headington to allow people on. Should maybe stop once to let people off there and then go straight into the centre.

Boooooo. Not fitting my narrative. Booooo.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

Did you say hello to Stevo?

Fortunately I don't live anywhere near Oxford. You can get back under your bridge now

I'm sure it's easy enough to get to in a car from your place.

It is, but not sure it'll be as easy to get around once you're there - assuming they actually implement this scheme forcing drivers to take much longer routes to get to where they need to go.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

Pross said:

photonic69 said:

Went to Oxford on Saturday to see my lad in advance of his 19th Birthday.
The Park & Ride was unusually busy and so were the buses and all running late. Happened to be the '15 minute city' protest day throwing the centre into chaos. Never seen such a bunch of misguided, gullible conspiracy theorists. Nutjobs. All travelling from far and wide to protest about LTNs and ULEZ zones and how it erodes their inalienable rights to freedom of movement. Really ?

Did you say hello to Stevo?

Fortunately I don't live anywhere near Oxford. You can get back under your bridge now

I'm sure it's easy enough to get to in a car from your place.

I think even Stevo would admit that M26-M25-M40 is not the most enjoyable drive.

Stevo_666

And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/

focuszing723

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.

They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.

Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?

Then lead by example and hand your keys in.

focuszing723

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstongraham said:

I happened to be in Oxford on Saturday morning too, wondered what the mounted police were doing in the already pedestrianised zone.

They really could improve their park and ride scheme. We used it on Friday evening and it was difficult to understand how to pay for a day plus the bus, and then the bus was slow. Misses the point.

Too many cars clogging up the roads, amirite?

Then lead by example and hand your keys in.

Also, you could just use taxi's and rent a car for longer trips

Nope, you love the independence your car gives.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

And in the meantime, Citizen Khan is having a few headaches with his latest fund raising initiative:
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/18/sadiq-khans-ulez-expansion-could-blocked-downing-street/

Oh, won't someone think of the clapped out van drivers?

Given that the ULEZ expansion was a condition of the Covid bailout of TfL by the government, they'd have a bit of a nerve to now demand it is removed.