The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

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Comments

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Preference for just removing them altogether, but it doesn't seem to have gone down well on this thread full of cyclists.
    Right tool for the right job sometimes.

    Also, if there was truly secure bike parking that would be great.
    Yes, I discovered on this thread that sometimes you need to buy christmas trees and toilet paper.

    The evolution of portable angle grinders along with the lack of interest from the police is not a positive development.
    I use the car for going to places outside London and taking the dogs to Richmond Park. Life would be worse without access to a car.
    Richmond Park and the surrounding area would be nicer if people didn't drive their cars there, so whilst it would be less convenient for you, I think it would be better overall. I know my view on this is not common.
    If I could only drive as far as the nearest carpark to the entrance I came in at, and had to leave through the same entrance, I'd be very happy. Or if they closed the car gates and I had to park outside I'd also be happy. If I had to take a bus there, I'd be pretty happy too if it meant it was free of cars.
    I suppose the bus option is my unrealistic dream.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,299
    Pross said:

    You’d have probably been exempt under the rules that are due to come it and it sounds like you’ve done enough that your property would be at least C rated. Are you not able to replace the current boiler with gas up there until 2035 as it was previously?

    The boilers are gas. I don't know the end date.
    However, I had 1 property with an electric boiler and it was old. My plumbing and heating engineer said that the new electric 'boilers' were extremely efficient but the i cost over gas was 40% more.
    The house was off the gas grid.
    June 2020, a good tenant moved out. Right in the middle of lockdown. I contacted ESP Utilities with a view to connecting it to the gas grid. I was quoted and proceeded with this and the cost was £1100 + VAT.
    ...but installation did not happen until November so I had an empty property with no heating whatsoever and a further £2840 was spent on the boiler.
    ££££'s flew out of the window.
    Luckily, I did get a very good tenant and she is in for the long term. I have frozen rental increases for her for 2 years.

    Yes, my properties are on good nick. I think too many landlords think they can get a quick return and do not care about the long term asset or welfare. I think this is more prevalent in the SE and other metropolis where a sh1t heap of a house is still going to go up in value no matter what you don't do to it.

    And letting agents are scum.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,299
    rjsterry said:

    pinno said:

    Pross said:

    Pross said:

    I think Starmer will be quite pleased if these changes are enacted before he gets in.

    Correct. Battery technology seems to be getting to a tipping point on range (see the recent stories about better electrodes and solid state electrolytes), at which point there will be a quick pivot by the buying public. This won't happen by 2030 though.

    2035 will also allow more time for non city charging to get better.

    I am less clear on the justification for putting back the ban on new gas and oil boilers through.
    The least justifiable is surely removing the requirement for landlords to provide energy efficient homes.
    Nothing is clear cut. That policy would just reduce the available rental accommodation and push rental prices up. Similarly anyone who stays as a landlord would pass on costs. I certainly wouldn't see the justification for distinguishing between rental and owner occupied though.
    Landlords who feel they can't afford to upgrade to a 'C' rating by the December 2028 deadline could apply for an exemption as follows:

    You can show quotes from three separate installers revealing that “the cost of purchasing and installing the cheapest recommended improvement exceeds £3,500 (including VAT)”. You must also provide confirmation that you are “satisfied that the measure(s) exceed this amount”. This is known as a ‘High cost’ Exemption and applies only to domestic property;

    You have already made all of the changes that could have been proposed in order to meet the regulations, and yet the property has still not achieved the desired rating.
    You can prove that a proposed wall or ceiling insulation system would be unsuitable for your building;

    The required improvements to the house in question require the consent of a third party, which has been refused;

    A RICS-qualified surveyor has informed you that any adjustments to the house – including changing the boiler, heating system, insulation or anything else – will reduce the buildings’ value;

    You have only started letting out rented property very recently (in which case, you may be granted a 6 month exemption).


    Hardly onerous especially if my reading of the first point is correct and you can apply if you have to fork out more than £3.5k inc. VAT to get up to a 'C' rating. It's not like 'C' is particularly onerous either. Part of being a landlord is having to spend money on keeping your asset to an acceptable standard, if landlords are leaving the market because of this I would question whether they are goof landlords to begin with.
    You two are making the mistake of using rational argument. A lot of private landlords will just get out of the market. This will push up prices. It doesn't take much to change sentiment, when being a private landlord is normally not all that worthwhile anyway.
    Would you want someone with that attitude as your landlord? As I've said on here a lot of times before, there are far too many 'property developers' out there who think it is money for old rope egged on by programmes like Homes Under The Hammer that make it seem like you buy a wreck at auction; chuck in a budget kitchen from Wickes, paint the walls and lay some grey carpets then watch the money roll in. If they aren't prepared to invest in basics like making the house energy efficient it makes you wonder what else they are skimping on.
    I would love to invest in decent insulation.
    I have done extra loft insulation in all my properties and replaced many old double glazing units (including doors), as well as fitting constant dehumidifiers and although this has made a big difference to the wellbeing of the tenants, heating bills and keeping my properties in better shape, it's not really as sufficient as it could be.
    I have had quotes for cavity wall insulation that are eye watering (that is only a piece of the insulation jigsaw) and I do not qualify for the Eco Gen external insulated cladding because if you own more than 2 properties (including the one you live in?!), you do not qualify. You are then classed as a business. So, businesses get no assistance in being energy efficient?!
    Else, I could get a grant and only pay £1200. Without any assistance, full cost is £11k+.
    £11k is over 2 years rental income in this part of the world. Add the usual repair, maintenance, insurance, annual boiler inspection, landlord registration fees, bad debt etc and I am looking at not getting that money back for 3 years. Multiply that across the properties I have and, well; do the maths. I have 3 rental properties.

    I can safely say that I have shelled out one third of my total rental income year on year with repairs, upgrades, maintenance and bad debt. Some govt; help would go a long way and in the next 5 years if this does not happen, I will be pulling out of the market.
    New boiler with 10 year warranties including fitting is £2800 (I have forked out for 2). Air source for rental properties without some form of grant? Forget it.
    When the new boilers are due for renewal and I cannot fit them because of legislation, I am out and out well before the deadline or I am facing owning properties that will l have less buyer appeal. This wouldn't happen in more urban areas.
    I am sure a lot of good landlords are in the same position.

    I am an inch from pulling out of the market anyway. If interest rates keep rising, I could sell up and invest elsewhere without all the hassle.

    Tenants in England don't have enough rights and tenants in Scotland have too many. They said this SNP government was anti-business, they certainly are.
    As you seem to have one foot out of the door anyway, I can see why you wouldn't want to invest further. On the other hand if you were planning on being a landlord for another 10-15 years, that investment would be more easily justified. This is not that different to an owner occupier: are you going to pay for replacement windows if you are planning to sell in a couple of years or leave it for the next owner and accept that you won't be able to sell for quite as much.
    Whilst there is little negative equity in the UK, I never expected that the property values would rise that much to the point where any 'investment' is offset by other costs. But yes, I would buy the double glazing etc.

    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,299

    Why are you doing it then?

    Do you really have nothing more productive to spend your money on?

    You're a laugh a minute. That level of attempted antagonism and your underlying, unfounded envy is both childish and presumptive.

    The first point is that it has been very difficult until recently to find stable investments with a decent return.
    If my rental property's yielded more than they do, I wouldn't have to keep working.
    I think you would be surprised what my annual household income is. It would be well below what you think it is.
    Having revealed that 1 third of my rental income has simply paid for on going costs already, you can do quick maths and realise that I am not 'rolling in it'.
    I also think that there is nothing wrong with being a landlord.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited September 2023
    pinno said:

    Why are you doing it then?

    Do you really have nothing more productive to spend your money on?

    You're a laugh a minute. That level of attempted antagonism and your underlying, unfounded envy is both childish and presumptive.

    The first point is that it has been very difficult until recently to find stable investments with a decent return.
    If my rental property's yielded more than they do, I wouldn't have to keep working.
    I think you would be surprised what my annual household income is. It would be well below what you think it is.
    Having revealed that 1 third of my rental income has simply paid for on going costs already, you can do quick maths and realise that I am not 'rolling in it'.

    I also think that there is nothing wrong with being a landlord.
    I'd suggest there probably are some more productive ways to spend your money.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    I'm confused, did the signals actually have a camera mounted on them (which I doubt) or did the imbecile decide one of the detectors for approaching vehicles was a camera?

    Hopefully a few of them will cut through an electric cable doing something like this and become eligible for a Darwin award.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,118
    edited September 2023
    Pross said:

    I'm confused, did the signals actually have a camera mounted on them (which I doubt) or did the imbecile decide one of the detectors for approaching vehicles was a camera?

    Hopefully a few of them will cut through an electric cable doing something like this and become eligible for a Darwin award.
    Probably did have a camera on, there's lots on traffic lights. Maybe pedestrian crossings are also part of the war on motorists. They slow down the necessary flow of the only important people.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    Stevo_666 said:

    Emily Maitlis might have a point... Stevotories might think that this wafer-thin win means they can forget all that 'green stuff' and U-turn on their previous commitments, and indeed campaign on ungreen policies, but it might not be the winning gambit they think it is...

    Brain, you travel between two homes in different countries. How is that environmentally efficient?
    Yeah, we're not taking any lectures from eco hypocrites :smile:

    Please do feel free to quote a single post from me to back up your charge.
    You have said that you own 2 houses and travel between them. Is that not true?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    Stevo_666 said:



    The realities of being a landlord and the realities of going eco. Probably quite an education for some people on here.

    If you're too small a scale landlord to afford the necessary capex to make the country sustainable, I'd suggest getting out of the game.

    The reality of property ownership is that investment is going to be required in order to keep the buildings sustainable.

    Real estate produces roughly 30% of all emissions globally. Either suck it up or sell to someone who does have the capital spare.
    What makes you think there are enough large scale landlords out there?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited September 2023
    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited September 2023

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    AI is just a tool. It'll be most transformative for things like it taking 2 hours to put a 30 slide powerpoint deck together, not 6. Stuff like that.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    AI is just a tool. It'll be most transformative for things like it taking 2 hours to put a 30 slide powerpoint deck together, not 6. Stuff like that.
    Nooooooo. When it becomes self aware and can evolve itself it can choose it's own MO. It might decide Humanity it great and help us or turn us into fertilizer like those tripod things from Mars.

    Anyway, the point is we could be wangered.
  • I'm really nice about computers and technology so I'd be alright, the rest of you skin shedders though...
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    AI is just a tool. It'll be most transformative for things like it taking 2 hours to put a 30 slide powerpoint deck together, not 6. Stuff like that.
    No, it won't, any time soon. Depending on your interest in quality.

    It will however big very, very good at finding patterns in big data and telling you what you see likely to die from well before you have obvious symptoms. Stuff like that.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Emily Maitlis might have a point... Stevotories might think that this wafer-thin win means they can forget all that 'green stuff' and U-turn on their previous commitments, and indeed campaign on ungreen policies, but it might not be the winning gambit they think it is...

    Brain, you travel between two homes in different countries. How is that environmentally efficient?
    Yeah, we're not taking any lectures from eco hypocrites :smile:

    Please do feel free to quote a single post from me to back up your charge.
    You have said that you own 2 houses and travel between them. Is that not true?

    Yes (as I said to FZ), but just tell me where my hypocrisy is, which is what you suggested. You're going to have to show me where I ask people to do things I don't do, or where I tell people not to do things I do.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    No. It's when you put your hand up a cow's bum, and squirt bull's semen in through its cervix.
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Emily Maitlis might have a point... Stevotories might think that this wafer-thin win means they can forget all that 'green stuff' and U-turn on their previous commitments, and indeed campaign on ungreen policies, but it might not be the winning gambit they think it is...

    Brain, you travel between two homes in different countries. How is that environmentally efficient?
    Yeah, we're not taking any lectures from eco hypocrites :smile:

    Please do feel free to quote a single post from me to back up your charge.
    You have said that you own 2 houses and travel between them. Is that not true?

    Yes (as I said to FZ), but just tell me where my hypocrisy is, which is what you suggested. You're going to have to show me where I ask people to do things I don't do, or where I tell people not to do things I do.
    You told me to stop taking about Elon Musk. If it wasn't for his greatness there wouldn't even be a debate. A debate you are pro EV on.

    And you're nasty about him in the God thread.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,529

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    No. It's when you put your hand up a cow's bum, and squirt bull's semen in through its cervix.
    😬 you won't find a cervix there.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    No. It's when you put your hand up a cow's bum, and squirt bull's semen in through its cervix.
    😬 you won't find a cervix there.

    You've obviously never done bovine AI. I have, and that's where you put your hand to manipulate the cervix.

    Maybe you should put that in the 'Something I've learnt' thread.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    AI is just a tool. It'll be most transformative for things like it taking 2 hours to put a 30 slide powerpoint deck together, not 6. Stuff like that.
    No, it won't, any time soon. Depending on your interest in quality.

    It will however big very, very good at finding patterns in big data and telling you what you see likely to die from well before you have obvious symptoms. Stuff like that.
    Tbh I’m just parroting what some big tech investor said at a PE conference I was at
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    AI is just a tool. It'll be most transformative for things like it taking 2 hours to put a 30 slide powerpoint deck together, not 6. Stuff like that.
    No, it won't, any time soon. Depending on your interest in quality.

    It will however big very, very good at finding patterns in big data and telling you what you see likely to die from well before you have obvious symptoms. Stuff like that.
    It will be a matter of time before it can evolve itself though and this is the point (singularity) when Humanity will start to be superceded.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,529

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    No. It's when you put your hand up a cow's bum, and squirt bull's semen in through its cervix.
    😬 you won't find a cervix there.

    You've obviously never done bovine AI. I have, and that's where you put your hand to manipulate the cervix.

    Maybe you should put that in the 'Something I've learnt' thread.
    Ah gotcha. Two separate operations. I should have remembered. It's certainly something that would have come up in conversation with my dad. I guess a zero success rate on the AI would also have alerted you if you were doing it wrong.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    AI is just a tool. It'll be most transformative for things like it taking 2 hours to put a 30 slide powerpoint deck together, not 6. Stuff like that.
    No, it won't, any time soon. Depending on your interest in quality.

    It will however big very, very good at finding patterns in big data and telling you what you see likely to die from well before you have obvious symptoms. Stuff like that.
    It will be a matter of time before it can evolve itself though and this is the point (singularity) when Humanity will start to be superceded.
    I don't much care if its not in the next 30 years. Past that, it'll be what's keeping me alive.
  • rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    No. It's when you put your hand up a cow's bum, and squirt bull's semen in through its cervix.
    😬 you won't find a cervix there.

    You've obviously never done bovine AI. I have, and that's where you put your hand to manipulate the cervix.

    Maybe you should put that in the 'Something I've learnt' thread.
    Ah gotcha. Two separate operations. I should have remembered. It's certainly something that would have come up in conversation with my dad. I guess a zero success rate on the AI would also have alerted you if you were doing it wrong.
    It would also be quite tricky to get one's arm up the 'delivery channel' as well as the means of delivering the dose.

    It cheers me up a bit that we can discuss these anatomical details and not be slapped with a "censored".
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,653

    rjsterry said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Can we normalise parking in car parks with charging points rather than expecting roads to still be full of parked cars and pavements to be clogged up with more censored for charging cars when the great electric revolution comes?

    Good luck trying to get a car parks built in residential areas.
    You're looking for problems not solutions.
    This entire thread exists because I was coming up with a a non-car centric solution.
    I think there is a good reason why the thread is still going.
    Because sustainability is literally the existential question that dominates all collective decision making for the human race for the next century?
    What's AI? Chopped liver!
    No. It's when you put your hand up a cow's bum, and squirt bull's semen in through its cervix.
    😬 you won't find a cervix there.

    You've obviously never done bovine AI. I have, and that's where you put your hand to manipulate the cervix.

    Maybe you should put that in the 'Something I've learnt' thread.
    Ah gotcha. Two separate operations. I should have remembered. It's certainly something that would have come up in conversation with my dad. I guess a zero success rate on the AI would also have alerted you if you were doing it wrong.
    It would also be quite tricky to get one's arm up the 'delivery channel' as well as the means of delivering the dose.


    Tricky, but I bet Russell Brand has tried.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,299

    pinno said:

    Why are you doing it then?

    Do you really have nothing more productive to spend your money on?

    You're a laugh a minute. That level of attempted antagonism and your underlying, unfounded envy is both childish and presumptive.

    The first point is that it has been very difficult until recently to find stable investments with a decent return.
    If my rental property's yielded more than they do, I wouldn't have to keep working.
    I think you would be surprised what my annual household income is. It would be well below what you think it is.
    Having revealed that 1 third of my rental income has simply paid for on going costs already, you can do quick maths and realise that I am not 'rolling in it'.

    I also think that there is nothing wrong with being a landlord.
    I'd suggest there probably are some more productive ways to spend your money.
    ?

    'Spend my money'?

    The properties are an investment. I'm not spending my money on rental jolly's.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!