Energy thread

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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,055
    edited September 2022
    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    Makes little difference for us who are on oil fired, as no cap applies. I'll probably be quite diligent about turning lights off when not needed etc, that's my Yorkshire upbringing.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,392
    A staggered tariff is definitely the way to go. It really does annoy me that the answer to the issue from Government seems to be side with those who find solar panels and wind turbines unsightly and go to ever more extreme measures to find new gas reserves rather than push harder to get to 100% renewables and find ways to reduce usage.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,159
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    This isn't a winter for usual usage.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,977
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    Not misreading it at all. I'm less inclined to be cold in order to reduce my energy usage now that it is not going to cost an extra 80%.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,159
    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    This isn't a winter for usual usage.
    So if you use less you will pay less.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,535
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    Makes little difference for us who are on oil fired, as no cap applies. I'll probably be quite diligent about turning lights off when not needed etc, that's my Yorkshire upbringing.
    We're on oil too - sure I heard yesterday (or probably Wednesday) that there was some kind of "support" being brought in but didn't catch the details. I suppose the thing with oil is that we've already paid for the coming winter's heating . . .
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    This isn't a winter for usual usage.
    So if you use less you will pay less.
    Perhaps I can point you to KingstonGraham as an example of why it doesn't work that well.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,977
    It's already gone up by 80% in the past two years, which is obviously a lot, and if money was tight, I'd already have been looking to reduce usage. If they'd gone ahead with the October increase, that would have been a 220% increase in total which would be quite the shock to the system for anyone, which is why it isn't happening.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,159
    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    This isn't a winter for usual usage.
    So if you use less you will pay less.
    Perhaps I can point you to KingstonGraham as an example of why it doesn't work that well.
    Doesn’t help my understanding of the issue.
    Use less, pay less; use more, pay more. The choice is yours.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    kingstongraham said:

    It's already gone up by 80% in the past two years, which is obviously a lot, and if money was tight, I'd already have been looking to reduce usage. If they'd gone ahead with the October increase, that would have been a 220% increase in total which would be quite the shock to the system for anyone, which is why it isn't happening.

    Sure, but I vote for you wearing a jumper, being a bit cold and wishing the country weaned itself off gas.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    I was trying to work out if I could live off grid if I were single. I have done it for a few months before, but times change. I think I would miss a fridge, hot food and warm showers. Plus I'm assuming I have 5G and I'm charging devices at work. Perhaps I can shower at work too.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,632
    TheBigBean said:

    I was trying to work out if I could live off grid if I were single. I have done it for a few months before, but times change. I think I would miss a fridge, hot food and warm showers. Plus I'm assuming I have 5G and I'm charging devices at work. Perhaps I can shower at work too.

    Gym membership perhaps
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    pangolin said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I was trying to work out if I could live off grid if I were single. I have done it for a few months before, but times change. I think I would miss a fridge, hot food and warm showers. Plus I'm assuming I have 5G and I'm charging devices at work. Perhaps I can shower at work too.

    Gym membership perhaps
    Yes, but I'm assuming I'm sufficiently poor and can't afford that.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,977
    Not really living off grid if you are going into work. You might as well go to the pub for a hot meal.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,392
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    This isn't a winter for usual usage.
    So if you use less you will pay less.
    Perhaps I can point you to KingstonGraham as an example of why it doesn't work that well.
    Doesn’t help my understanding of the issue.
    Use less, pay less; use more, pay more. The choice is yours.
    Not really wanting to speak for KG but my understanding of what he was saying is that now the rate is being capped he is less inclined to suffer the discomfort of having the heating set lower as the cost of turning the thermostat up the extra degree or two is no longer a deterrent. I suspect we all have that cut off point where using energy for improved convenience / comfort gets outweighed by the price we are prepared to pay for that. Much like there will be a cost of petrol at which point people will drive less.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    kingstongraham said:

    Not really living off grid if you are going into work. You might as well go to the pub for a hot meal.

    I don't think living off grid means not working, especially with a literal interpretation. Plus how many jobs prevent you from charging devices - I could do it in a tractor for example. That job probably wouldn't be providing me with a shower which is definitely a problem as I'm really not a fan of cold ones.

    When I did it before, I was working.
  • mully79
    mully79 Posts: 904
    New price cap is going to work out at £290 a month for me if I do nothing. It’s definitely enough to consider making changes.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,392
    TheBigBean said:

    I was trying to work out if I could live off grid if I were single. I have done it for a few months before, but times change. I think I would miss a fridge, hot food and warm showers. Plus I'm assuming I have 5G and I'm charging devices at work. Perhaps I can shower at work too.

    Living off grid doesn't mean you would have to go without hot food or hot water but surely if you wouldn't be off grid if you continue to travel into work (or is this like a SC version of off grid?).
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,392
    I'm hoping that as my energy supplier has been over-charging me for the last year or so my bills aren't going to need to rise at all (and with my daughter going to Uni they may even fall).
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Surely if you don't have a smart meter you just submit a ridiculously high over-read come end of September
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    shirley_basso said:

    Surely if you don't have a smart meter you just submit a ridiculously high over-read come end of September

    Hmmm might try that.

    They do send people round to check periodically.
    _
  • monkimark
    monkimark Posts: 1,912
    I didn't even need to do that last time - British Gas always massively overestimate my meter readings so I just 'forgot' to correct them until the prices had gone up.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    Pross said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I was trying to work out if I could live off grid if I were single. I have done it for a few months before, but times change. I think I would miss a fridge, hot food and warm showers. Plus I'm assuming I have 5G and I'm charging devices at work. Perhaps I can shower at work too.

    Living off grid doesn't mean you would have to go without hot food or hot water but surely if you wouldn't be off grid if you continue to travel into work (or is this like a SC version of off grid?).
    I'm assuming I don't also have a wood burning stove, oil heating, solar panels, wind turbines, portable gas etc. Imagine a tent if it helps.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,632
    When you do this are you effectively buying energy at the old rate, or does the extra just sit as cash in your energy provider account until needed then is spent at whatever the current rate is?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,336
    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    pangolin said:

    rick_chasey said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Govt support or price caps don't address the underlying issue which is scarcity of gas.

    So if you're not using the market price to signal people to use less, as you're capping the price (or giving equivalent support via other means), how do you make people use less?

    Judging from the lack of response to your various "global scale"posts, Rick, I think most folks are still far more concerned with their costs of keeping warm, this winter.

    Even with a cap of around £2500, the poor are still going to be faced with either keeping the kids warm, or fed. Global shortages aren't going to mean much to the folks who can't afford to use it in the first place.
    Not until they can't access the internet or steaming services, at least....
    Everyone's heating and financial situation is different so there isn't a one-size fits all model and I'm not really here to judge people's individual choices as there's more that goes into it than is worth sharing tbh.

    My worry is that this energy crisis is the catalyst for a much wider economic problem across Europe. The sheer amount of GDP that Europe, UK included, is going to spend on energy vs normal is so big it's hard not to see a massive catastrophe.

    Even if everyone is bailed out, firms and households, then there's a decent chance we just run out of energy anyway and we're all forced to go without power regardless (if it's a cold winter)
    Is there anything an average punter can do about that worry?

    Install a wood burner I guess...
    you won't get a woodburner before Spring.

    My theory is that whatever you do you won't shave more than 10% off your bill so you may as well look for savings elsewhere (or earn more)
    I think you're right. Cut down on booze, crushed avocado on toast etc. Shower at work etc.
    Have you gone full lefty on us?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    rick_chasey said:

    shirley_basso said:

    Surely if you don't have a smart meter you just submit a ridiculously high over-read come end of September

    Hmmm might try that.

    They do send people round to check periodically.
    You then need to carefully manage your meter-reads over the winter, or not submit anything until it finally ticks over. Also might look suspicious having a huge energy bill in Sept.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I have always found the system of the energy company "suggesting" a monthly amount and then you randomly get hit by a "oh you owe us / we owe you x amount" because they didn't get it right very weird.

    Had to really fight for them to just charge me for exactly what i used that month.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,977
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    I don't know if I'm representative, but I'm definitely less inclined to put myself through any minor discomfort to reduce my energy usage after the announcement. Which is nice for me, but not ideal overall.

    This is my fear. Paying people's standing charges and a few units makes sense, this doesn't.
    Are people simply misreading things? The cap is for usual usage. Over use and you will over pay?
    This isn't a winter for usual usage.
    So if you use less you will pay less.
    Perhaps I can point you to KingstonGraham as an example of why it doesn't work that well.
    Doesn’t help my understanding of the issue.
    Use less, pay less; use more, pay more. The choice is yours.
    Well it is, because the value I place on being in a home at a temperature I deem comfortable is higher than the price that is currently being charged for gas. If the price were considerably higher, that would change.

    This price will be different for people in different circumstances, either financial or personal.

    The example of petrol is a good one - if, having been 110p, they rose to 180p, you might just grumble but swallow it and make other adjustments if you need to. If it then suddenly went up to 320p per litre, you might start thinking whether journeys are really worth it. At all of those price points, if you drive less, you pay less.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    Think it would count as fraud if you deliberately submitted an inaccurate reading.

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