Energy thread

rick_chasey

It’s like the musings of drug addict on their favourite drug

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

Stop being being so condescending. You've been told about this before.

bonk_king

orraloon said:

Firewood prices will be higher. Took some in today, £70 per cubic metre delivered cut and split, was £65 when I first started looking for local suppliers some weeks back. Dry, ready to use, 15-16% moisture content

Anyone with a woodburner, who has a free supply of wood, are big winners in this crisis. I know that kiln dried logs and such last longer but they cost a fortune, and like you say, their cost will only go one way as the crisis continues.

Do you not have a potential free supply of wood from a local factory or something. Granted, pallet wood and such isn't as good as kiln dried logs......but if you're lucky it's free, and will heat your house.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

It’s standard political short termism. Allowing costs to remain high and deter people from using energy whilst pushing towards renewables and better insulation isn’t going to win votes at the next election.

All that is important in modern politics is getting re-elected to then continue to do nothing productive with your time in power.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

It’s standard political short termism. Allowing costs to remain high and deter people from using energy whilst pushing towards renewables and better insulation isn’t going to win votes at the next election.

All that is important in modern politics is getting re-elected to then continue to do nothing productive with your time in power.

It’s literally no more short term than any other energy type

How long do people think it takes to find and still a well?

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

Stop being being so condescending. You've been told about this before.

Lol. Is that your best defence?

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

It’s standard political short termism. Allowing costs to remain high and deter people from using energy whilst pushing towards renewables and better insulation isn’t going to win votes at the next election.

All that is important in modern politics is getting re-elected to then continue to do nothing productive with your time in power.

It’s literally no more short term than any other energy type

How long do people think it takes to find and still a well?

I know but Truss is selling it as her taking immediate action and has even said we could be getting gas from fracking in months. Don’t forget her base support we’re pushing her to cut back on solar, as you like to remind us most of them won’t be around to fully face the consequences of global warming.

briantrumpet

bonk_king said:

orraloon said:

Firewood prices will be higher. Took some in today, £70 per cubic metre delivered cut and split, was £65 when I first started looking for local suppliers some weeks back. Dry, ready to use, 15-16% moisture content

Anyone with a woodburner, who has a free supply of wood, are big winners in this crisis. I know that kiln dried logs and such last longer but they cost a fortune, and like you say, their cost will only go one way as the crisis continues.

Do you not have a potential free supply of wood from a local factory or something. Granted, pallet wood and such isn't as good as kiln dried logs......but if you're lucky it's free, and will heat your house.

I'm hoping I might get a decent supply of forest-fire-dried wood for the French woodburner... at least there might be that bonus from the otherwise-catasrophe. I need to talk to the right people.

When I had the woodburner in Devon, and a free supply of wood from the farm, my monthly gas bill was £4 over the year.

bonk_king

briantrumpet said:

bonk_king said:

orraloon said:

Firewood prices will be higher. Took some in today, £70 per cubic metre delivered cut and split, was £65 when I first started looking for local suppliers some weeks back. Dry, ready to use, 15-16% moisture content

Anyone with a woodburner, who has a free supply of wood, are big winners in this crisis. I know that kiln dried logs and such last longer but they cost a fortune, and like you say, their cost will only go one way as the crisis continues.

Do you not have a potential free supply of wood from a local factory or something. Granted, pallet wood and such isn't as good as kiln dried logs......but if you're lucky it's free, and will heat your house.

I'm hoping I might get a decent supply of forest-fire-dried wood for the French woodburner... at least there might be that bonus from the otherwise-catasrophe. I need to talk to the right people.

When I had the woodburner in Devon, and a free supply of wood from the farm, my monthly gas bill was £4 over the year.

When I got my woodburner installed in Nov 2021 the guy said, "you've got this at just the right time", as prices were about to rise. He was getting extremely busy.

A lot of people have got them and I'm guessing a lot of people, like myself, are using free fuel to heat their homes, an absolute godsend this winter.

I genuinely fear that the wind will be taken out of our sails by some kind of introduction of a tax on woodburners, lol.

It sounds bat shit crazy but that's how these things work.

rick_chasey

Well yeah they’re terrible for pollution

bonk_king

rick_chasey said:

Well yeah they’re terrible for pollution

Yeah, the companies who sell them tell you that modern woodburners are extremely efficient and clean.

Maybe more efficient and cleaner than old woodburners, yeah, but still pouring pollutants into the atmosphere.

I believe there are a lot of "green" areas where woodburners are banned, the first question the guy asked us was our postcode!!

Thankfully we are ok where we are, for now. But these areas will no doubt get bigger and bigger as time passes.

I reckon a few years down the line you'll only be able to burn the "cleanest" fuels available on them, and probably at great cost to the user. How they'd go about monitoring this though I don't know.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

Stop being being so condescending. You've been told about this before.

Lol. Is that your best defence?

Lol. Of course not. Just can't be bothered re-explaining the situation because you won't listen anyway, given your view is the only one that can possibly be right....

And you still need to stop being condescending

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

It is mad when climate change is the existential threat that the solution is not to replace fossil fuel dependence (which would avoid the crisis anyway) but to dig more out.

Shows a remarkable level of stupidity.

You’ve got to be monumentally thick to think it’s a sensible solution to “drill all available fossil fuels”

Climate change is already the single biggest cause of refugees in the world.

Stop being being so condescending. You've been told about this before.

Lol. Is that your best defence?

Lol. Of course not. Just can't be bothered re-explaining the situation because you won't listen anyway, given your view is the only one that can possibly be right....

And you still need to stop being condescending

Guarantee you there is no credible argument for it that stands up to scrutiny.

Stevo_666

I am quite amused that start a pant wetting thread about energy security, do your best to spread doom, gloom and panic - then pour scorn on an option that doesn't fit in with your eco credentials

Anyway, I explained upthread about the difference between short and long term solutions - go have another read.

rjsterry

Perhaps those cheering the promises to extract more gas from the North Sea (plus a few cubic metres of shale gas) can come up with a reason why those extracting that gas would then sell it at below market rate. The proportionally tiny amounts involved are not going to even twitch the needle. It's not going to remotely make up for three or four decades of dithering on replacement nuclear power stations and is just throwing a few quid at an industry that will inevitably face the same fate as coal.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

I am quite amused that start a pant wetting thread about energy security, do your best to spread doom, gloom and panic - then pour scorn on an option that doesn't fit in with your eco credentials

Anyway, I explained upthread about the difference between short and long term solutions - go have another read.

All this does is show ignorance of the drilling process

Pross

rjsterry said:

Perhaps those cheering the promises to extract more gas from the North Sea (plus a few cubic metres of shale gas) can come up with a reason why those extracting that gas would then sell it at below market rate. The proportionally tiny amounts involved are not going to even twitch the needle. It's not going to remotely make up for three or four decades of dithering on replacement nuclear power stations and is just throwing a few quid at an industry that will inevitably face the same fate as coal.

According to the bloke who called in to the Radio 2 phone in (the only one I heard supporting fracking). We just force them to sell to the domestic market only.

tailwindhome

Thought this an interesting read on the Truss plan

https://ryanbourne.substack.com/p/the-three-ps-behind-trusss-energy?r=5rny&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

Perhaps those cheering the promises to extract more gas from the North Sea (plus a few cubic metres of shale gas) can come up with a reason why those extracting that gas would then sell it at below market rate. The proportionally tiny amounts involved are not going to even twitch the needle. It's not going to remotely make up for three or four decades of dithering on replacement nuclear power stations and is just throwing a few quid at an industry that will inevitably face the same fate as coal.

According to the bloke who called in to the Radio 2 phone in (the only one I heard supporting fracking). We just force them to sell to the domestic market only.

As a veteran of the food security debate I believe that is the plan

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

I am quite amused that start a pant wetting thread about energy security, do your best to spread doom, gloom and panic - then pour scorn on an option that doesn't fit in with your eco credentials

Anyway, I explained upthread about the difference between short and long term solutions - go have another read.

All this does is show ignorance of the drilling process

I think that our self appointned energy security expert is making too many assumptions about timescales of crisis vs timescale to access certain hydrocarbon reserves.

But feel free to share any inside energy industry or military info you have to back up your condescension

rick_chasey

Far right doing well in Sweden (likely biggest party but it’s too close to call) and far right in Italy favourites to be the biggest party.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

Far right doing well in Sweden (likely biggest party but it’s too close to call) and far right in Italy favourites to be the biggest party.

Only tangentially related to energy, I would suggest.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Far right doing well in Sweden (likely biggest party but it’s too close to call) and far right in Italy favourites to be the biggest party.

Only tangentially related to energy, I would suggest.

Mmmm not according to the coverage I've read.

rjsterry

Are the more right wing parties in Sweden pro-Russian? I would assume that the tinpot guys in Italy think Putin is great but there is no chance of him invading them.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

Are the more right wing parties in Sweden pro-Russian? I would assume that the tinpot guys in Italy think Putin is great but there is no chance of him invading them.

Salvini obviously does, as does Berlusconi, but the Brothers of Italy, who are the likely biggest party are run by a woman who, after sitting on the fence after the initial invasion has swung behind sending kit to UKAF. They're a far-right split out of Berlusconi's party, to give you an idea of where they are on the spectrum.

Think nativist nationalists , espousing great replacement theory, and they've had relatives of Mussolini run as candidates.

Riding the wave of anti-immigration and upset with the energy prices which is consuming all of the air in Italian politics.


Swedes are universally anti Russia. Hating on Russians as foreigners is part of the vibe. They don't make exception because of political persuasion.

The narrative is they're all workshy spongers and they need to pay for things like guns and energy because the Russians are bad inferior slavs, right?

First.Aspect

Mathematically, a tangent does have to coincide with the circumference at one point, RC.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

rjsterry said:

Are the more right wing parties in Sweden pro-Russian? I would assume that the tinpot guys in Italy think Putin is great but there is no chance of him invading them.

Salvini obviously does, as does Berlusconi, but the Brothers of Italy, who are the likely biggest party are run by a woman who, after sitting on the fence after the initial invasion has swung behind sending kit to UKAF. They're a far-right split out of Berlusconi's party, to give you an idea of where they are on the spectrum.

Think nativist nationalists , espousing great replacement theory, and they've had relatives of Mussolini run as candidates.

Riding the wave of anti-immigration and upset with the energy prices which is consuming all of the air in Italian politics.


Swedes are universally anti Russia. Hating on Russians as foreigners is part of the vibe. They don't make exception because of political persuasion.

The narrative is they're all workshy spongers and they need to pay for things like guns and energy because the Russians are bad inferior slavs, right?

I am familiar with the bin fire that is Italian politics. Can't quite make sense of your last two paragraphs. The report I saw had SD in second place behind the Social Democrats. Energy prices were a secondary issue after immigration from Afghanistan, etc.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

Mathematically, a tangent does have to coincide with the circumference at one point, RC.

OK I'll spell it out for you.

RC theory: energy price problems and general economic malaise causes more extremist politics across the spectrum. People get more nativist when the pie doesn't grow, so they have to "protect" their portion of it, as it becomes zero sum. Or if you're at the poorer end of the spectrum you engage in Robin hood politics.

2 months later, at the beginning of the energy crisis: Far right success in elections in both North Europe (Sweden) and south Europe (Italy).

Correlation is not causation, but I'm calling it.

Pross

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

pangolin

Pross said:

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

Electric hob?