Euro 2020/21 (more football, sorry Brian)

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  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    Yes Peter Walton, he takes a lot of stick on social media for always agreeing with decisions but to be fair I'd heard him mention the same thing prior to yesterday in a similar incident when to his slight surprise the player didn't actually get a red.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    elbowloh said:

    Just watching the highlights of the Italy's v Wales game? How is that a red card? That kind a challenge happens at least once a match and is a yellow at most.

    Sorry if debated earlier.

    Thought the same but put it down to my bias.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,386
    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    In the athletic today German pundits are baffled why Sancho didn’t make an appearance. Apparently his specialty is breaking down deep stubborn defences.
    _
  • womack
    womack Posts: 566
    First.Aspect said:

    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

    To justify their existence?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

    A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

    Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.



  • womack
    womack Posts: 566
    kingstongraham said:

    SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

    A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

    Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.



    I don't think anyone disputes the interpretation Kingston. I think what confuses the fans is that we have seen many of these tackles during the tournament which haven't been punished as severely.

    I am sure we will see more before the end of the tournament that result in a yellow only.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    Straight leg and studs, ball gone.
    Can't see the controversy.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,386
    You are missing the point(s).

    1. Inconsistently applied in different areas of the pitch
    2. Inconsistently applied within seasons, between tournaments
    3. Inconsistently applied to other offences.

    For example, the German player who gave someone concussion in their first match leaping through the air at their head. Not in control. Didn't get the ball. Could have broken his skull. Deemed not even a foul.

    It is not the rule, but the absurdity of its application I object to.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    kingstongraham said:

    SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

    A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

    Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.



    lunge
    v.intr.
    1. To make a sudden thrust or pass.
    2. To move with a sudden thrust.

    Doesn't clear it up for me.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    You'll have to watch what 93 yr old grandpah raver calls 'A picture with an arrow' since we got him a smartphone, Bean
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    ddraver said:

    You'll have to watch what 93 yr old grandpah raver calls 'A picture with an arrow' since we got him a smartphone, Bean

    I'm not sure I understand.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    pblakeney said:

    Straight leg and studs, ball gone.
    Can't see the controversy.

    just watched the video and I really don't see the argument. In footballing terms he "did him"

    If he wants to do things like that he should go and play in the 1980s
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Where in the rules does it talk about straight legs and studs?
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    elbowloh said:

    Where in the rules does it talk about straight legs and studs?

    "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent"
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First.Aspect said:

    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

    I think the issue is that each Federation has it's own interpretation of many rules so at major tournaments they clarify the interpretation they are going to take.

    I really don't see how deliberately and forcefully planting your studs on somebody's ankle is hard line. It is not as if he can claim he mistimed a tackle, he had no mitigation and had to go.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    You'll have to watch what 93 yr old grandpah raver calls 'A picture with an arrow' since we got him a smartphone, Bean

    I'm not sure I understand.
    I'll put it another way, If you were going to set up a picture of someone 'lunging' at another person, How would it differ from that photo?

    I feel for the guy but (Sorry Rick), "He really should do better..."
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    rick_chasey said:

    In the athletic today German pundits are baffled why Sancho didn’t make an appearance. Apparently his specialty is breaking down deep stubborn defences.

    I had him in mind in a previous post I made about substitutions. Sancho has been successful in what is regarded as a very technical league and also the Scots may not be as familiar with him as the other players.

    Going back to the lack of imagination in making changes, it just baffles me how the best he could come up with is swapping Foden for Grealish and letting the oppostion play in exactly the same way. What are the management and coaching staff doing with all the time in between games? Don't they come up with alternative plans and formations for such situations where the original plan isn't working? Are they not thinking and talking tactics whenever possible?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,386
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

    I think the issue is that each Federation has it's own interpretation of many rules so at major tournaments they clarify the interpretation they are going to take.

    I really don't see how deliberately and forcefully planting your studs on somebody's ankle is hard line. It is not as if he can claim he mistimed a tackle, he had no mitigation and had to go.
    Yes it was a foul. Was it a sending off offence? If so, was it a sending off offence last week?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    Straight leg and studs, ball gone.
    Can't see the controversy.

    just watched the video and I really don't see the argument. In footballing terms he "did him"

    If he wants to do things like that he should go and play in the 1980s
    As others have said, it is the inconsistency. I don't watch a lot of football but that sort of 'tackle' seems to happen in literally every game I watch and usually more than once. Quite often the player gets away with a free kick but occasionally it is given a yellow. I can't recall seeing a red for anything comparable. I can't recall the details but I definitely saw a near identical foul in the France game the other night.

    I don't have an issue with a red card being given for it, it's dangerous and pretty cynical, but the refs have to be consistent and do it on every similar foul (even if it is a big player for a big team in an important match).
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    Refereeing is never going to be an exact science - even with VAR which is only meant to be there for cases of a clear and obvious error.

    With this one as Kingston says it's got elements of a straight red, but then there wasn't much force behind it so you can argue it both ways.

    To me it didn't look entirely accidental - or at least not a natural way to try and win the ball - I wonder if that influenced the ref.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

    I think the issue is that each Federation has it's own interpretation of many rules so at major tournaments they clarify the interpretation they are going to take.

    I really don't see how deliberately and forcefully planting your studs on somebody's ankle is hard line. It is not as if he can claim he mistimed a tackle, he had no mitigation and had to go.
    Yes it was a foul. Was it a sending off offence? If so, was it a sending off offence last week?
    post up a clip of the other one and I will let you know my opinion but football really does not work on a precedent basis. Man Utd once took a load of clips of worse offences to a tribunal and got nowhere.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    elbowloh said:

    Where in the rules does it talk about straight legs and studs?

    a straight leg is one of the things they look for. Think about it if you were going to plant your foot on somebody's lower leg with maximum force what angle would your knee be at?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,025
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

    I think the issue is that each Federation has it's own interpretation of many rules so at major tournaments they clarify the interpretation they are going to take.

    I really don't see how deliberately and forcefully planting your studs on somebody's ankle is hard line. It is not as if he can claim he mistimed a tackle, he had no mitigation and had to go.
    I think the seriousness of it increases as it was almost an off the ball incident. No idea what he was trying to do; however, I wouldn't want to see players regularly sent off when one foot is on the ground and the other foot's heel is on the ground. Leg breaking challenges tend to happen when the tackler is in the air, so the full weight goes through the other person's leg.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    In the athletic today German pundits are baffled why Sancho didn’t make an appearance. Apparently his specialty is breaking down deep stubborn defences.

    And the reverse of that argument is that Grealish, as a Villa player, has zero experience of breaking down packed defences.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Pross said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    Straight leg and studs, ball gone.
    Can't see the controversy.

    just watched the video and I really don't see the argument. In footballing terms he "did him"

    If he wants to do things like that he should go and play in the 1980s
    As others have said, it is the inconsistency. I don't watch a lot of football but that sort of 'tackle' seems to happen in literally every game I watch and usually more than once. Quite often the player gets away with a free kick but occasionally it is given a yellow. I can't recall seeing a red for anything comparable. I can't recall the details but I definitely saw a near identical foul in the France game the other night.

    I don't have an issue with a red card being given for it, it's dangerous and pretty cynical, but the refs have to be consistent and do it on every similar foul (even if it is a big player for a big team in an important match).
    Do you mean the tackle that got Botka a yellow for going through Mbappe?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,593
    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    Straight leg and studs, ball gone.
    Can't see the controversy.

    just watched the video and I really don't see the argument. In footballing terms he "did him"

    If he wants to do things like that he should go and play in the 1980s
    As others have said, it is the inconsistency. I don't watch a lot of football but that sort of 'tackle' seems to happen in literally every game I watch and usually more than once. Quite often the player gets away with a free kick but occasionally it is given a yellow. I can't recall seeing a red for anything comparable. I can't recall the details but I definitely saw a near identical foul in the France game the other night.

    I don't have an issue with a red card being given for it, it's dangerous and pretty cynical, but the refs have to be consistent and do it on every similar foul (even if it is a big player for a big team in an important match).
    Do you mean the tackle that got Botka a yellow for going through Mbappe?
    Possibly, I can't recall the details. I'm pretty sure there was one committed by each side with one getting yellow and the other possibly just getting a free kick. I just remember it happening as, like I said, I see them in every game and they always look bad, it seems to be one of the deliberate niggly things players still get away with quite often (along with raking the achilles). I have no problem with red cards being given for them but they have to be given every time. For me it is similar to the red cards in rugby for contact to the head and a red should be given unless there is clear mitigation.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,386
    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    First.Aspect said:

    Why is it that UEFA and FIFA select particular offences to crack down on at international tournaments? Such that you get "hard line" sending offs like yesterday. I can't remember the last tournament where this didn't happen.

    I think the issue is that each Federation has it's own interpretation of many rules so at major tournaments they clarify the interpretation they are going to take.

    I really don't see how deliberately and forcefully planting your studs on somebody's ankle is hard line. It is not as if he can claim he mistimed a tackle, he had no mitigation and had to go.
    Yes it was a foul. Was it a sending off offence? If so, was it a sending off offence last week?
    post up a clip of the other one and I will let you know my opinion but football really does not work on a precedent basis. Man Utd once took a load of clips of worse offences to a tribunal and got nowhere.
    Was that one of those tribunals where the people who made the decision in the first place review their decision and decide that they were right?
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    rick_chasey said:

    elbowloh said:

    Where in the rules does it talk about straight legs and studs?

    "A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent"
    So that's a no then.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    Pross said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    pblakeney said:

    Straight leg and studs, ball gone.
    Can't see the controversy.

    just watched the video and I really don't see the argument. In footballing terms he "did him"

    If he wants to do things like that he should go and play in the 1980s
    As others have said, it is the inconsistency. I don't watch a lot of football but that sort of 'tackle' seems to happen in literally every game I watch and usually more than once. Quite often the player gets away with a free kick but occasionally it is given a yellow. I can't recall seeing a red for anything comparable. I can't recall the details but I definitely saw a near identical foul in the France game the other night.

    I don't have an issue with a red card being given for it, it's dangerous and pretty cynical, but the refs have to be consistent and do it on every similar foul (even if it is a big player for a big team in an important match).
    Do you mean the tackle that got Botka a yellow for going through Mbappe?
    Possibly, I can't recall the details. I'm pretty sure there was one committed by each side with one getting yellow and the other possibly just getting a free kick. I just remember it happening as, like I said, I see them in every game and they always look bad, it seems to be one of the deliberate niggly things players still get away with quite often (along with raking the achilles). I have no problem with red cards being given for them but they have to be given every time. For me it is similar to the red cards in rugby for contact to the head and a red should be given unless there is clear mitigation.
    Could be when the guy stood on Pogba's foot then. 38 minutes in. Free kick, no yellow.

    Wasn't nearly as dangerous as the wales one, but looked like should have been a booking.

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