Tennis G.O.A.T?

seanoconn

wallace_and_gromit said:

seanoconn said:

Coaches will be queuing to work with the Raducanu family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/67166854

She's maybe got a point. In my experience of the swimming world, coaches do not like being asked questions. They say it's because it's disrespectful to them, but in reality, it's usually because they can't back up what they're saying. And the situation is worse with males coaches and intelligent females.

That said, the nature of the coach-coachee "game" is that you play by the rules or you don't play at all. She may have so much money already that she doesn't want to have to listen to palpable nonsense and smile sweetly at it several times a day just for the chance of more success on court.

Maybe different to swimming, are swimming coaches paid by the organisation or the individual?

Top tennis players paying coaches wouldn’t be expected to do as they are told, no questions. There would discuss goals and how/where to improve, working together to achieve.

Daughter and daddy sound as though they are difficult to work with and unless daddy is a top class coach, her best days could be behind her.

Pross

seanoconn said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

seanoconn said:

Coaches will be queuing to work with the Raducanu family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/67166854

She's maybe got a point. In my experience of the swimming world, coaches do not like being asked questions. They say it's because it's disrespectful to them, but in reality, it's usually because they can't back up what they're saying. And the situation is worse with males coaches and intelligent females.

That said, the nature of the coach-coachee "game" is that you play by the rules or you don't play at all. She may have so much money already that she doesn't want to have to listen to palpable nonsense and smile sweetly at it several times a day just for the chance of more success on court.

Maybe different to swimming, are swimming coaches paid by the organisation or the individual?

Top tennis players paying coaches wouldn’t be expected to do as they are told, no questions. There would discuss goals and how/where to improve, working together to achieve.

Daughter and daddy sound as though they are difficult to work with and unless daddy is a top class coach, her best days could be behind her.

That's the issue isn't it? It seems quite common in tennis that parents get their child to a certain level but then won't let go. Maybe they all fancy being the next Richard Williams.

seanoconn

Pross said:

seanoconn said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

seanoconn said:

Coaches will be queuing to work with the Raducanu family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/67166854

She's maybe got a point. In my experience of the swimming world, coaches do not like being asked questions. They say it's because it's disrespectful to them, but in reality, it's usually because they can't back up what they're saying. And the situation is worse with males coaches and intelligent females.

That said, the nature of the coach-coachee "game" is that you play by the rules or you don't play at all. She may have so much money already that she doesn't want to have to listen to palpable nonsense and smile sweetly at it several times a day just for the chance of more success on court.

Maybe different to swimming, are swimming coaches paid by the organisation or the individual?

Top tennis players paying coaches wouldn’t be expected to do as they are told, no questions. There would discuss goals and how/where to improve, working together to achieve.

Daughter and daddy sound as though they are difficult to work with and unless daddy is a top class coach, her best days could be behind her.

That's the issue isn't it? It seems quite common in tennis that parents get their child to a certain level but then won't let go. Maybe they all fancy being the next Richard Williams.

Yep. Very difficult to get to the top in tennis without very supportive parents. Often that support spills over to obsession.

Anyone who hasn’t read Andre Agassi’s autobiography, I’d highly recommend as a typical example.

wallace_and_gromit

seanoconn said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

seanoconn said:

Coaches will be queuing to work with the Raducanu family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/67166854

She's maybe got a point. In my experience of the swimming world, coaches do not like being asked questions. They say it's because it's disrespectful to them, but in reality, it's usually because they can't back up what they're saying. And the situation is worse with males coaches and intelligent females.

That said, the nature of the coach-coachee "game" is that you play by the rules or you don't play at all. She may have so much money already that she doesn't want to have to listen to palpable nonsense and smile sweetly at it several times a day just for the chance of more success on court.

Maybe different to swimming, are swimming coaches paid by the organisation or the individual?

Top tennis players paying coaches wouldn’t be expected to do as they are told, no questions. There would discuss goals and how/where to improve, working together to achieve.

I think the psychology is the same though. The outcome is different in that in swimming, the swimmer is "eased out" (via non-selection for teams etc.) whereas in pro tennis, the coach chooses to leave.

wallace_and_gromit

seanoconn said:

Pross said:

seanoconn said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

seanoconn said:

Coaches will be queuing to work with the Raducanu family.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/67166854

She's maybe got a point. In my experience of the swimming world, coaches do not like being asked questions. They say it's because it's disrespectful to them, but in reality, it's usually because they can't back up what they're saying. And the situation is worse with males coaches and intelligent females.

That said, the nature of the coach-coachee "game" is that you play by the rules or you don't play at all. She may have so much money already that she doesn't want to have to listen to palpable nonsense and smile sweetly at it several times a day just for the chance of more success on court.

Maybe different to swimming, are swimming coaches paid by the organisation or the individual?

Top tennis players paying coaches wouldn’t be expected to do as they are told, no questions. There would discuss goals and how/where to improve, working together to achieve.

Daughter and daddy sound as though they are difficult to work with and unless daddy is a top class coach, her best days could be behind her.

That's the issue isn't it? It seems quite common in tennis that parents get their child to a certain level but then won't let go. Maybe they all fancy being the next Richard Williams.

Yep. Very difficult to get to the top in tennis without very supportive parents. Often that support spills over to obsession.

Anyone who hasn’t read Andre Agassi’s autobiography, I’d highly recommend as a typical example.

Mary Pierce is another whose relationship with her father is "interesting". She eventually took out a restraining order against him after years of him attacking her and her opponents. He was famous for encouraging Mary at key moments by shouting out "Kill the b*tch".

daniel_b

Alcaraz out, Djok out as well, Sinner looking mighty currently.

Alcaraz and Djok both lost to similar scorelines, but I didn't see either match to be honest.

Djok's first setback probably since Wimbledon last year.

seanoconn

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21048179#Comment_21048179

Been impressed by Sinner for a few years, always super focused and seems to have everything dialled in now. Not terribly flamboyant for an Italian but research shows he’s from a German speaking region.

ugo.santalucia

Yes, he is from Tirolo, not far away from Austria… but Italian in the making, coached and raised in Italy.

McEnroe predicted a few years back, when he was in top 100 or so, that he was in line to become the new no.1. He had a couple of developments seasons lately, until he blossomed last autumn.

He has now beaten Djokovic on 3 of the last 4 matches they had, first time on a slam, That should give him confidence that he is the one to beat and not the other way round.

ugo.santalucia

He is probably already the best male tennis player Italy ever had. Panatta won a slam, but was never ranked no.4… even among the womes, Pennetta and Schiavone won a slam, but were outsiders, never ranked very high.

In Italy he has quickly surged in popularity, to a status that in recent times only Alberto Tomba, Pantani, Baggio and Federica Pellegrini had… maybe to a lesser extent Nibali, universally liked by everyone… despite not having much of a media personality.

Pross

Pretty exciting final by the look of it. Sinner is a battler.

seanoconn

Fair play, finished it off without nerves for a first grand slam. Got the game to win Wimbledon too.

ugo.santalucia

this will boost his confidence… he can be no.1 and win any slam

Wheelspinner

Quality match. Awesome hitting

ugo.santalucia

Sinner now no. 2 and becoming even more popular in Italy… we need a positive sporting hero, at a time when we only have mediocre footballers and not many exciting cyclists…

daniel_b

Shame Sinner went out earlier in the tournament. Musetti looking impressive, his backhand looking alightly Federeresque, be nice to see him get through, though think it unlikely.

Alcaraz just had a slow start against Medvedev, but then won the next 3 sets, looking on form for sure, but ideally not going to give a set up to Djokovic if he gets through to the final.

Paolini in the women's game is from one of our favourite parts of Italy, Lucca in Tuscany, is only 5ft 4, but in a serious vein of form, Final at the French but lost, final here now too, see if she can finish it off this time.

seanoconn

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21082640#Comment_21082640

Sinner was my pre tournament fav, not sure what was up with him.

Djokovic’s seems pretty fired up and the knee doesn’t seem to be troubling him.

Nice to see Paolini beating the big girls. One of my wife’s friends met her this week and said she is lovely.

daniel_b

Yes, mine too, it hasn't been explained what was up with him, maybe fuelling, a virus, or something bad he ate.

Djok's knee seems to literally be having zero effect on his play.

Sadly musetti is comparatively getting his posterior kicked, despite playing well.

He's young, I hope he can become one of the real top players, apparently in his younger days he was higher rated than sinner.

Paolini is a breath of fresh air, in a similar way to Alcaraz I would say, you can tell she's really enjoying the game, lovely to see, and she comes across so well in interviews. Was surprised at her age, thought she was younger, good to hear she is every bit as lovely as she seems.

Playing style she reminds me a touch of the wonderful, and tiny, Henin.

the Luccarians are loving it, and well they should.

Djok is looking disturbingly clinical amd focussed, Alcaraz is going to have to be on top top form to defend his title.

daniel_b

Alcaraz is 21 and has 3 'slams' already, hopefully 4 in just over a day. Conceivably at his age, if he stays fit, healthy/injury free, motivated & interested, and depending on the level of competition, he could surpass the current maximum number won at a relatively young age.

A lot of IFs and maybes in there I appreciate 🤣



Wasn't long ago that tennis players were thought to have come to the end of their career by the age of 30 or not far past.

The big three changed that perception, but no guarantee the next crop will continue in the same vain of course.

I wonder how long Djok can/will go on for. I did think he was on the wane, was it at the French he went out before the final, and wasn't playing at the top of his game, and I think he pulled out of the Australian after having a water bottle dropped on his noggin.

However watching him play the last couple of matches, my eye sees no degradation in playing ability from previous winning years.

I am deffo supporting Alcaraz tomorrow (Have simply never been a Djok fan though I respect his ability, skill, and commitment to win) though I feel less confident for him than I did last year, and that one was uber tight.

He seems to be making more mistakes this year, and up until now has managed to turn things around against his opponent - however this is Djok, so I have my doubts that if he plays the same way he's going to have time to 'get into the game' as I think by then he'll be a set and a break down, and Djok rarely gives up a lead.

I'm hoping to be wrong, I definitely was when I had bad feelings about the stage where Cav took no 35, so hopefully on a run of incorrect inklings 🤣

seanoconn

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/21082729#Comment_21082729

Of the big three I’d always thought Djokovic would be the one to have the longest career. Absolutely amazed that Nadal has lasted so long with what his put his body through over the years, chasing down and quite often winning points that many others would have given up on, not to mention trying to rip the cover off the ball every other shot. As you say, without the advances in training, nutrition/blood doping (😂) Nadal would have been finished by the age of 30 20years ago.

Djokovic must be close to the perfect body type for tennis, 6ft 2” slim strong upper body and extremely flexible, hence his longevity. Most tennis players over the age of 30 are nursing/managing some sort of injury, Novak seems to handle that better than most. If the body hasn’t broken down approaching 40 and the desire to train day in day out is still there then the ability to focus and stay in the zone for 3-5hrs becomes harder. That might be the deciding factor tomorrow.

I wouldn’t say I’m a Djokovic fan and I know he comes across as an arrogant Prat sometimes but I do have massive respect for his achievements and hope he can add another slam to his GOAT status. I’ll miss him when he’s gone.

daniel_b

Wowsas, Djok not at the races today it would seem, getting his @rse kicked, unusual type of play and uncharacteristic mistakes, but Alcaraz is on fire.

Waiting for Djok to go off court / or get the trainer on.

Alcaraz's serve has definitely gone off the boil, wondering if the relative 'ease' of the match so far might result in a drop in concentration to let Djok back in.

seanoconn

Reminiscent of Djokovic’s loss to Sinner in the Australian open semi’s atm. Very out of sorts.

daniel_b

Didn't see that game, but looking at the scoreline I see what you mean.

Even though he may be off his game, Alcaraz is 100% on his, making some shots/passes he has no right to.

Fantasy stuff some of it, Djok looking bemused a lot of the time.

seanoconn

The GOAT takes gold. Icing on the cake.

pblakeney

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/comment/20750398#Comment_20750398

The first reply to this thread in February 2021. I feel fully vindicated. 😎

mrb123

Impressive from Draper there. Into the semis and hasn't dropped a set yet.

daniel_b

Have kept a track of the results, but not seen any of it, noted it is not on Discovery, thought it used to be?

I know Djok and Alcaraz are out, but he's got a real tester of a semi final coming up, Sinner took out Medvedev in 4 sets.

Recall seeing Draper play a few years back, and it looked like he had enormous potential, fantastic to see him fulfilling it, and still only 22.

Challenge now will be to maintain fitness and that level of form, hopefully he has a good team around him, not sure where he is based?

Golden opportunity really with the current vacuum appearing, Fed gone, Nadal all but gone, Djok apparently very much on the wane, and even the two top dogs Alcaraz and Sinner are not dominating, and or always getting through to the final of the grand slams.

seanoconn

Draw really opened up for Draper after Alcaraz’s early exit. Solid performance yesterday was enough to fell a well below par de Minaur and by his own admission, will need another level in the semi final against Sinner. Great opportunity with no previous winners left in the draw.

seanoconn

Strapping on Draper’s leg after the first was a concern but didn’t seem to hamper him, hopefully won't be an issue.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I know this sounds like I am gatecrashing the party now he has reached a semi but I have followed Draper for 2 or 3 years and always thought he was a potential GS and top 5 player. I know he is neither at the moment, but as with Andy, he seems to have started to overcome his early career fitness and injury issues and is now able to have a proper run at big events.

The era post Fed/Nad/Djok was always going to be very open with it being likely that no player(s) would be dominating. It gives Jack and a few others a massive opportunity to win slams over the next five years.

Hopefully the furore around Sinner might affect him a bit and give Jack an even better chance. I think if he wins that he will win the US Open.

seanoconn

Mindset is Key and Draper has had the belief he belongs at the top since he was a Junior. No over celebrating yesterday, job isn’t done yet. Good to see.

Massively privileged background related to tennis but not his fault I guess.