Should Chris Froome swallow his pride and retire?

above_the_cows

ddraver said:

Tempted to start a " Should Gee have a proper tilt at the classics or swallow his pride and retire" thread given the "success" of these...

Nah properly commit and start a "should Pidcock swallow his pride and retire" thread.

kingstongraham

That was a seriously impressive ride. I didn't think he was at that level - it's a massive step up from anything he's shown.

That was the first time he'd finished any day in any race in the top 10 since his crash 3 years ago. (He was 11th in that mountain 1.1 this year.)

It's remarkable.

takethehighroad

I didn't realise until Rob Hatch mentioned it today, his last win of any kind was the Giro in 2018!

amrushton

takethehighroad said:

I didn't realise until Rob Hatch mentioned it today, his last win of any kind was the Giro in 2018!

And if you only had that on your palmares it would be impressive. Life in the Froomedog yet.

joe2019

andyp said:

ugo.santalucia said:

A valiant effort, but a far cry from his golden days

If he won the Tour by ten minutes, you'd find fault.

Ugo has gone on record to say that he could beat Wiggins up a climb, so he knows, you know.

ugo.santalucia

Indeed

Lanterne_Rogue

Back to Froome briefly, I don't think he's worth his current deal if it's as big as claimed, but I think today suggests he's worth a spot on a team still as a sort of luxury domestique.

One thing I can't quite get past is the footage of Pidcock catching Louvel and Froome. Louvel briefly considers going with Pidcock and immediately realises he can't do it. Froome instinctively sprints out of the corner to try and stay with him, and then did a pretty good job of staying in touch afterwards - plus doing his share on the flatter sections. He's still got that urge to race, it's just his body hasn't necessarily been able to deliver - it's easy to imagine Froome doing the Valverde thing of being apparently unretireable and still hanging on up there(ish).

RichN95.

I think today will be a big mental breakthrough for him. For all the training and power numbers, it's got play with your head if it doesn't translate to performances. Now, for the first time is has. Not only will he have more confidence, but his teammates will have more belief. Also his body needs actual racing scenarios to get to the next step. Stages 16-18 provide more opportunities and perhaps he can go to the Vuelta with an eye on doing a decent GC ride.

DeVlaeminck

I'd rather see him go for stages and maybe a mountains jersey - become an attacking rider as we saw yesterday. Much as it was nice to see him do well yesterday the pair that beat him wouldn't threaten the podium at a grand tour.

His difficulty may be that he doesn't seem great at making the break but he's not had a huge amount of experience of trying it.

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck said:

I'd rather see him go for stages and maybe a mountains jersey - become an attacking rider as we saw yesterday. Much as it was nice to see him do well yesterday the pair that beat him wouldn't threaten the podium at a grand tour.

His difficulty may be that he doesn't seem great at making the break but he's not had a huge amount of experience of trying it.

I think his real problem is that he can't compete against the younger riders. At no point yesterday I thought he could win the stage... great determination and true grit to hang on, but the young guns will have him.

bobmcstuff

ugo.santalucia said:

DeVlaeminck said:

I'd rather see him go for stages and maybe a mountains jersey - become an attacking rider as we saw yesterday. Much as it was nice to see him do well yesterday the pair that beat him wouldn't threaten the podium at a grand tour.

His difficulty may be that he doesn't seem great at making the break but he's not had a huge amount of experience of trying it.

I think his real problem is that he can't compete against the younger riders. At no point yesterday I thought he could win the stage... great determination and true grit to hang on, but the young guns will have him.

But I also didn't think that he would make it across in the first place, then not get dropped from the break, then hang on for 3rd - until he did it.

seanoconn

I didn’t think Froome was still capable of a ride like yesterday but I was wrong. He’s proved to himself he still belongs and there’s more to come hopefully.

ugo.santalucia

We need to see...
We can't ignore the fact that he had so far a pretty relaxed Tour compared to many others... Pidcock worked a lot more in the previous days and yet was easily able to dispatch him and put well over a minute into him. Maybe in a less competitive race he can still have his say... maybe not the TdF... Vuelta could be a good call

joeyhalloran

ugo.santalucia said:

We need to see...
We can't ignore the fact that he had so far a pretty relaxed Tour compared to many others... Pidcock worked a lot more in the previous days and yet was easily able to dispatch him and put well over a minute into him. Maybe in a less competitive race he can still have his say... maybe not the TdF... Vuelta could be a good call

What are we waiting for? He literally just podiumed at the TdF. Pidcock may have done more work over recent days but what about the other ~160-something riders still in the race that Froome still beat?

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

We need to see...
We can't ignore the fact that he had so far a pretty relaxed Tour compared to many others... Pidcock worked a lot more in the previous days and yet was easily able to dispatch him and put well over a minute into him. Maybe in a less competitive race he can still have his say... maybe not the TdF... Vuelta could be a good call

Third on a Tour stage may not be the final destination, but just a stop along the way.

ugo.santalucia

joeyhalloran said:

ugo.santalucia said:

We need to see...
We can't ignore the fact that he had so far a pretty relaxed Tour compared to many others... Pidcock worked a lot more in the previous days and yet was easily able to dispatch him and put well over a minute into him. Maybe in a less competitive race he can still have his say... maybe not the TdF... Vuelta could be a good call

What are we waiting for? He literally just podiumed at the TdF. Pidcock may have done more work over recent days but what about the other ~160-something riders still in the race that Froome still beat?

That's a bizarre way of looking at it... out of the 160 or so who started the stage, maybe 30 had in mind they could win it, a few were looking at the GC and going with the flow and the rest just wanted the day over... so he beat 28 at best. Out of those 28, many missed the break for various reasons, so they were not in the race. He basically beat all but two of his breakaway companions, the likes of Ciccone etc... what we need to see what he can do in the Pyrenees... I'm happy to be proved wrong, but from what I see, he doesn't have the numbers needed to beat the younger guys

joeyhalloran

ugo.santalucia said:

That's a bizarre way of looking at it... out of the 160 or so who started the stage, maybe 30 had in mind they could win it, a few were looking at the GC and going with the flow and the rest just wanted the day over... so he beat 28 at best. Out of those 28, many missed the break for various reasons, so they were not in the race. He basically beat all but two of his breakaway companions, the likes of Ciccone etc... what we need to see what he can do in the Pyrenees... I'm happy to be proved wrong, but from what I see, he doesn't have the numbers needed to beat the younger guys

Do you say the same any day the break wins? "They only won because the peleton wasn't trying"? Those who missed the break, those who wanted the day over, he BEAT them. If you asked them if they wanted a Tour stage podium I am pretty sure they all would have said yes. They didn't let him have it. He literally just showed he has the numbers to beat a whole load of people. Yeah, he isn't where he was for sure, and he needs to be smart about how he uses what he has but that is true of 98% of the peleton. This is the Tour, there are no gifts, no "Go on Froome, we'll freewheel while you take it because we like you".

DeVlaeminck

Yes but he's finished third in a break - that is the high point of his season - it's a good result but Meintjes finishes ahead of him - nobody is suggesting Meintjes takes a pop at GC.

bobmcstuff

ugo.santalucia said:

joeyhalloran said:

ugo.santalucia said:

We need to see...
We can't ignore the fact that he had so far a pretty relaxed Tour compared to many others... Pidcock worked a lot more in the previous days and yet was easily able to dispatch him and put well over a minute into him. Maybe in a less competitive race he can still have his say... maybe not the TdF... Vuelta could be a good call

What are we waiting for? He literally just podiumed at the TdF. Pidcock may have done more work over recent days but what about the other ~160-something riders still in the race that Froome still beat?

That's a bizarre way of looking at it... out of the 160 or so who started the stage, maybe 30 had in mind they could win it, a few were looking at the GC and going with the flow and the rest just wanted the day over... so he beat 28 at best. Out of those 28, many missed the break for various reasons, so they were not in the race. He basically beat all but two of his breakaway companions, the likes of Ciccone etc... what we need to see what he can do in the Pyrenees... I'm happy to be proved wrong, but from what I see, he doesn't have the numbers needed to beat the younger guys

He missed the break initially and did a big effort to get across to it as well (with Pidcock).

Froome at the front on a mountain stage is not something I ever really expected to see again.

As above I think based on this if he rode a smart race (ie not doing much work on earlier stages...) and picked the right break he can still win a stage in a grand tour. Which is major progress whichever way you look at it, just for that to even be credible.

RichN95.

DeVlaeminck said:

Yes but he's finished third in a break - that is the high point of his season - it's a good result but Meintjes finishes ahead of him - nobody is suggesting Meintjes takes a pop at GC.

Meintjes is 13th on GC. He was 6th at the Dauphine.

larkim

Getting 3rd on a trophy day like yesterday, in the heat and the chaos that is Alpe d'Huez is definitely something that a good chunk of the peloton would have bitten their arms off for. And hanging in there to the bitter end when he could very easily have capitulated, especially with his palmares already "banked", is definitely a good result.
Will be interesting to see what he does for the remainder of the Tour though.

andyp

RichN95. said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Yes but he's finished third in a break - that is the high point of his season - it's a good result but Meintjes finishes ahead of him - nobody is suggesting Meintjes takes a pop at GC.

Meintjes is 13th on GC. He was 6th at the Dauphine.

He also has two top ten GC finishes from the Tour, 8th in both 2016 and 2017.

DeVlaeminck

Exactly - a guy who is 13th after being allowed in a break - who you are googling to find a top 10 in the Tour - beat Froome at his current best. That does not suggest Froome is going to get back to being a GC rider.

RichN95.

DeVlaeminck said:

Exactly - a guy who is 13th after being allowed in a break - who you are googling to find a top 10 in the Tour - beat Froome at his current best. That does not suggest Froome is going to get back to being a GC rider.

Getting in a break is often how riders get into the top 10. Meintjes is definitely riding for the best GC position he can

andyp

DeVlaeminck said:

Exactly - a guy who is 13th after being allowed in a break - who you are googling to find a top 10 in the Tour - beat Froome at his current best. That does not suggest Froome is going to get back to being a GC rider.

Tosh. Meintjes looked like a decent GC prospect when he was young, but then had injury issues that stalled his development. He was riding really well at the Vuelta last year until he crashed out.

Pross

DeVlaeminck said:

Exactly - a guy who is 13th after being allowed in a break - who you are googling to find a top 10 in the Tour - beat Froome at his current best. That does not suggest Froome is going to get back to being a GC rider.

I don't think anyone is expecting Froome to challenge on GC again but yesterday (and some of the other stages on this Tour) are a marked improvement on when he was going out the back with the sprinters at the first sign of an incline last season.

ugo.santalucia

It's massive improvement and it's great he can be there... but let's not forget he has a multi million pound contract, quite a rare thing in cycling, so surely there are expectations beyond a third place in a stage? The question is how high can he go? At that level of pay, either you are a top GC contender or you can win the monuments...

joeyhalloran

ugo.santalucia said:

It's massive improvement and it's great he can be there... but let's not forget he has a multi million pound contract, quite a rare thing in cycling, so surely there are expectations beyond a third place in a stage? The question is how high can he go? At that level of pay, either you are a top GC contender or you can win the monuments...

I think you have completely missed how pro cycling works. Can you tell me who came 3rd on any other stage off the top of your head? Chris Froome gets cameras on him even getting dropped, let alone coming 3rd. He is paid to advertise for his sponsors, and because of his former level, he gets that regardless of the results.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia said:

It's massive improvement and it's great he can be there... but let's not forget he has a multi million pound contract, quite a rare thing in cycling, so surely there are expectations beyond a third place in a stage? The question is how high can he go? At that level of pay, either you are a top GC contender or you can win the monuments...

No-one has actually seen his contract.

No_Ta_Doctor

Just for info, Danish TV talked about Froome *all day* yesterday, interviewed him at the finish, and had a segment on the evening Tour show. I reckon he's probably earning his keep, just about.