Should Chris Froome swallow his pride and retire?
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this, extremrly well saif.ugo.santalucia said:I have seen too little from him to change my mind... breakaways are allowed to happen at discretion of the peloton, there is no particular glory in that... he did OK to be there on the final climb, but didn't have enough to stay with Pidcock and lost over a minute in the end. To put it in perspective, Pidcock never managed to stay with Pogacar, Vingegaard, Thomas, Kuss etc... he is young and might become a GC superstar, but he is not yet there.
It's an OK performance for Froome, it's not a definitive return to form... I hope the Vuelta will be more revealing.
top 5 at the moment: MvdP, WvA, Pog, Rog, Vin.
Following approximatly 30 mins behind: Froome, Pidcock, etc.
Ugo talks the truth..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.2
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he has made a couple of good investments - Hammerhead and poss Quadlock but he is still a marquee name maybe not a marquee rider0
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I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
left the forum March 20230 -
Who is this Pidcock character that you speak of. Is it the out of his depth bland pull out of the Tour de France by stage 8 guy ?MattFalle said:.
this, extremrly well saif.ugo.santalucia said:I have seen too little from him to change my mind... breakaways are allowed to happen at discretion of the peloton, there is no particular glory in that... he did OK to be there on the final climb, but didn't have enough to stay with Pidcock and lost over a minute in the end. To put it in perspective, Pidcock never managed to stay with Pogacar, Vingegaard, Thomas, Kuss etc... he is young and might become a GC superstar, but he is not yet there.
It's an OK performance for Froome, it's not a definitive return to form... I hope the Vuelta will be more revealing.
top 5 at the moment: MvdP, WvA, Pog, Rog, Vin.
Following approximatly 30 mins behind: Froome, Pidcock, etc.
Ugo talks the truth.0 -
How do you know he hasn't brought sponsors with him?? Common practice in other sports (F1). Plus he brings a wealth of experience and knowledge, which IPT are no doubt hoping will reap dividends with developing younger riders and the team as a whole.ugo.santalucia said:
I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
I think he showed in the tour that he is still worthy of a place in a pro team.0 -
It's a bit like organising a summer festival and choosing Rod Stewart as headliner... he will attract (some) crowds, but for the same fee you could get so much more...left the forum March 20231
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How do you know what he is being paid? Plus you aren't a marketing specialist.0
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I go by what I read... if they say it's 5 million, then that's what I have to make up my mind. It might be less and might include bonuses for this and that, but I doubt it's less than 2-3 million base salary... which is a lot given his age and conditions. I look at Pogacar and I think... do these young riders really need all this mentoring by the old guy? Who was mentoring Van Aert? You have it or you don't... having the old guy in the team might add some experience in a tricky situation, but it's not essential... Vingegaard won even without Roglic (assuming Roglic is an old wise guy)shirley_basso said:How do you know what he is being paid? Plus you aren't a marketing specialist.
left the forum March 20231 -
ah - the guy who finishd in the pack for 20 stages, won one stage where no one else wanted it and finished Gawd knows how far down the finishing list.andyrr said:
Who is this Pidcock character that you speak of. Is it the out of his depth bland pull out of the Tour de France by stage 8 guy ?MattFalle said:.
this, extremrly well saif.ugo.santalucia said:I have seen too little from him to change my mind... breakaways are allowed to happen at discretion of the peloton, there is no particular glory in that... he did OK to be there on the final climb, but didn't have enough to stay with Pidcock and lost over a minute in the end. To put it in perspective, Pidcock never managed to stay with Pogacar, Vingegaard, Thomas, Kuss etc... he is young and might become a GC superstar, but he is not yet there.
It's an OK performance for Froome, it's not a definitive return to form... I hope the Vuelta will be more revealing.
top 5 at the moment: MvdP, WvA, Pog, Rog, Vin.
Following approximatly 30 mins behind: Froome, Pidcock, etc.
Ugo talks the truth.
and yeah he's still bland. The Leicester City of cycling.
but yup, thats the fella, fella.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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No one wanted to win the queen stage of the tour, that will be a first then.9
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It may seem to be a colossal waste of money to you but it's not your money and it's not your decision whether he's worth it or not. Plus if he wants to race and a team seems to find value in him, well, that's defiantly not your call. Of course you could fund your own team and throw him off of it. In the end HE is in control of his life, not cycling fans.ugo.santalucia said:
I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
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Leicester City who miraculously won the Premier League a few years ago?MattFalle said:
ah - the guy who finishd in the pack for 20 stages, won one stage where no one else wanted it and finished Gawd knows how far down the finishing list.andyrr said:
Who is this Pidcock character that you speak of. Is it the out of his depth bland pull out of the Tour de France by stage 8 guy ?MattFalle said:.
this, extremrly well saif.ugo.santalucia said:I have seen too little from him to change my mind... breakaways are allowed to happen at discretion of the peloton, there is no particular glory in that... he did OK to be there on the final climb, but didn't have enough to stay with Pidcock and lost over a minute in the end. To put it in perspective, Pidcock never managed to stay with Pogacar, Vingegaard, Thomas, Kuss etc... he is young and might become a GC superstar, but he is not yet there.
It's an OK performance for Froome, it's not a definitive return to form... I hope the Vuelta will be more revealing.
top 5 at the moment: MvdP, WvA, Pog, Rog, Vin.
Following approximatly 30 mins behind: Froome, Pidcock, etc.
Ugo talks the truth.
and yeah he's still bland. The Leicester City of cycling.
but yup, thats the fella, fella.
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so you're honestly saying that Pog WvA, Ving, Thomas, all the climbers, etc etc were al going flat out to win it and the cyclocross mtb lad took them all to the cleaners?webboo said:No one wanted to win the queen stage of the tour, that will be a first then.
either there was something wrong with him for the rest of the Tour, the rest - as agreed by Ugo - didn't really care or - and you're intimating it - somrone did a Landis.
Hmmmmmmmm.
for the sake of diplomacy lets say no one else really cared.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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yes. exactly. that is the point.mrb123 said:
Leicester City who miraculously won the Premier League a few years ago?MattFalle said:
ah - the guy who finishd in the pack for 20 stages, won one stage where no one else wanted it and finished Gawd knows how far down the finishing list.andyrr said:
Who is this Pidcock character that you speak of. Is it the out of his depth bland pull out of the Tour de France by stage 8 guy ?MattFalle said:.
this, extremrly well saif.ugo.santalucia said:I have seen too little from him to change my mind... breakaways are allowed to happen at discretion of the peloton, there is no particular glory in that... he did OK to be there on the final climb, but didn't have enough to stay with Pidcock and lost over a minute in the end. To put it in perspective, Pidcock never managed to stay with Pogacar, Vingegaard, Thomas, Kuss etc... he is young and might become a GC superstar, but he is not yet there.
It's an OK performance for Froome, it's not a definitive return to form... I hope the Vuelta will be more revealing.
top 5 at the moment: MvdP, WvA, Pog, Rog, Vin.
Following approximatly 30 mins behind: Froome, Pidcock, etc.
Ugo talks the truth.
and yeah he's still bland. The Leicester City of cycling.
but yup, thats the fella, fella.
#bllmey..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Well, we might as well pack up and stop talking about the all thing... "the status quo is the only way... there is no other possible way"dennisn said:
It may seem to be a colossal waste of money to you but it's not your money and it's not your decision whether he's worth it or not. Plus if he wants to race and a team seems to find value in him, well, that's defiantly not your call. Of course you could fund your own team and throw him off of it. In the end HE is in control of his life, not cycling fans.ugo.santalucia said:
I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
left the forum March 20230 -
TBH, the only way you could genuinely think that is if you didn't watch the stage.MattFalle said:
so you're honestly saying that Pog WvA, Ving, Thomas, all the climbers, etc etc were al going flat out to win it and the cyclocross mtb lad took them all to the cleaners?webboo said:No one wanted to win the queen stage of the tour, that will be a first then.
either there was something wrong with him for the rest of the Tour, the rest - as agreed by Ugo - didn't really care or - and you're intimating it - somrone did a Landis.
Hmmmmmmmm.
for the sake of diplomacy lets say no one else really cared
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.6 -
I suspect that Matt knows very little about cycling other than what he’s read on tinterweb.2
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?????????????ugo.santalucia said:
Well, we might as well pack up and stop talking about the all thing... "the status quo is the only way... there is no other possible way"dennisn said:
It may seem to be a colossal waste of money to you but it's not your money and it's not your decision whether he's worth it or not. Plus if he wants to race and a team seems to find value in him, well, that's defiantly not your call. Of course you could fund your own team and throw him off of it. In the end HE is in control of his life, not cycling fans.ugo.santalucia said:
I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
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Ugo - every team in every sport benefits from a wise and experienced older head. You may not see that benefit in that individual's race results, but they will drive standards, have knowledge of what systems work and what don't, etc, etc. A lot of knowledge will be passed on in training.
whether the wage being paid makes that worth it or not, is not something those outside the team can judge.0 -
Interestingly, nobody wants to sign Cristiano Ronaldo, despite him being a better asset than Froome... same age or thereaboutleft the forum March 20231
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Not quite true. Loads of club would sign him, if his wage demands were realistic.ugo.santalucia said:Interestingly, nobody wants to sign Cristiano Ronaldo, despite him being a better asset than Froome... same age or thereabout
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I think that's a bit of a generalisation. I'm sure there are circumstance when a team needs a reset with fresh blood, new modern idea's. Look at football players, in the passed half of them were drinking the day before a match. Hardly a benefit to bestow.0
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I bet the old Pro riders weren't keen on the science creeping into cycling, now it's a given to get the watts and levels.0
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This is such a trite if not even stupid take. No offense intended, but this is a cycling forum. This is the exact place to discuss such things. 🙄dennisn said:
It may seem to be a colossal waste of money to you but it's not your money and it's not your decision whether he's worth it or not. Plus if he wants to race and a team seems to find value in him, well, that's defiantly not your call. Of course you could fund your own team and throw him off of it. In the end HE is in control of his life, not cycling fans.ugo.santalucia said:
I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
Well that's an idiot thing to say. Everyone is an idiot in some regard, you can't know everything.andyrr said:
In TheMF’s world it’s expert on every cycling topic tho’.webboo said:I suspect that Matt knows very little about cycling other than what he’s read on tinterweb.
Remember - "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”0 -
There was that poster that reckoned Matt was a Walter Mitty and was some guy from Jersey, not a half Italian military expert living in the Welsh borders.andyrr said:
In TheMF’s world it’s expert on every cycling topic tho’.webboo said:I suspect that Matt knows very little about cycling other than what he’s read on tinterweb.
Remember - "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”0 -
Discuss it all you what. Not a problem with me. I'm saying that he's a man who can take a job if it's offered to him and he wants it. He can also ask for whatever money they will pay him. He will basically do what he wants to do. It's his life.. Much like you and I, we will do what we think best for US, not what someone else thinks we should do or be doing.m.r.m. said:
This is such a trite if not even stupid take. No offense intended, but this is a cycling forum. This is the exact place to discuss such things. 🙄dennisn said:
It may seem to be a colossal waste of money to you but it's not your money and it's not your decision whether he's worth it or not. Plus if he wants to race and a team seems to find value in him, well, that's defiantly not your call. Of course you could fund your own team and throw him off of it. In the end HE is in control of his life, not cycling fans.ugo.santalucia said:
I think the title question is always the same, used for Cavendish and whatnot... I think the more relevant question is whether he should be allowed to race in the PRO tour... or in other words, why on Earth would a team pay astronomical salaries for past-their-best riders? I don't buy in the publicity return, because Froome is not such a marketable guy (cyclists rarely are, maybe Cipollini was), and there is very little air time for a rider sitting in the peloton... sounds like a colossal waste of money to me.dennisn said:Maybe, just maybe, it's NOT about "swallowing his pride". Does it ever enter anyone's mind that he simply loves to do it? Really likes being around his friends and fellow competitors? It's his world. Retire? And do what? Open a bike shop? Hang around on the race sideline's when he's still somewhat capable and willing to race? And could it be that there is still money to be made? Even debating WHY he's still at it is pretty stupid.
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“military expert” 🤣🤣🤣0
