Giro 2020 - Stage 3: Enna – Etna 150 km *Spoilers*

RichN95.

50x11 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

He was already ahead of Froome when Froome crashed out and my guess is Froome would not have matched Nibali on the cobbles and the Sky leader would have lost another couple of minutes

Edit: 2018 Nibali finished on Froome's wheel on the stage with the most cobbles in recent history, so not sure what you're basing him loosing 2 minutes on.

I think it was well established that Froome was a lousy bike handler who would struggle on the cobbles. Just as in 2016 everyone knew that he would struggle on descents, until he attacked on a descent.

On the cobbled section, once Froome was out Thomas and Porte attacked and made almost a minute on Contador

DeVlaeminck

50x11 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

He was already ahead of Froome when Froome crashed out and my guess is Froome would not have matched Nibali on the cobbles and the Sky leader would have lost another couple of minutes

Edit: 2018 Nibali finished on Froome's wheel on the stage with the most cobbles in recent history, so not sure what you're basing him loosing 2 minutes on.

On the fact Nibali had an absolute stormer of a stage and put time into every other GC contender, the fact he was 2 minutes ahead of the best placed Sky rider and on Froome having developed his bike handling as his career went on and having a reputation for being a bit shaky back then.

Sure it's possible Froome might have finished with Nibali instead of crashing out but it seems more likely he'd have lost time like every other GC rider.

m.r.m.

RichN95. said:

and should have been by Kruijswick.

Do you mean the Giro Kruijswick crashed on or another one? Because that wasn't bad luck. Kruijswick crashed because Nibali put that much pressure on him descending. That is skill by Nibali and lack thereof by Kruijswick.

andyp

Nibali has ten top ten finishes in GTs alongside his four wins. He's also won two monuments and has a total of 52 wins. (Froome has 46 career wins in comparison).

But yeah, he's a lucky rider who flukes wins.

Pross

andyp said:

Nibali has ten top ten finishes in GTs alongside his four wins. He's also won two monuments and has a total of 52 wins. (Froome has 46 career wins in comparison).

But yeah, he's a lucky rider who flukes wins.

I don't think anyone is saying that. He's probably the most rounded rider of the past decade in his one day and GT ability. I think everyone is just saying all his GT wins have been in races where the top riders either haven't started or haven't finished.

blazing_saddles

Whatever folks think about Nibali, he's head and shoulders the most experienced rider left in contention: the only guy who knows how to win Giri.
Fuglsang is head and shoulders the best rider left in contention, he is just incapable of stringing a three week effort together.

davidof

Pross said:

I think everyone is just saying all his GT wins have been in races where the top riders either haven't started or haven't finished.

We seem to have gone full circle... if you can't make it to the finish you can't win.

In the Tour Nibs won he may not have been able to beat Froome mano a mano on a straight ride up an alpe but he exploited the course to the max, used his experience and skills to put both Froome and Contador under pressure with the result that both crashed out. So yeah, he won a tour against two very good rivals.

Dorset_Boy

Froome crashed well before the cobbled sectors started and IIRC pulled out before the first cobbled sector as he couldn't hold the bars having broken his wrist.
OK Nibali had come out firing in Sheffield and was in yellow, but there was a long way and a lot of climbing still to go. Nibali hadn't put Froome under any abnormal pressure when Froome crashed out.

TheBigBean

blazing_saddles said:

TheBigBean said:

hypster said:

It seems like the only thing that Geraint Thomas can win now is Richie Porte's "World's Unluckiest Rider" crown.

I can't think of a worse rider to win the tour since Sastre and Pereiro, so he's been very lucky in my view even if he never wins anything else.

Probably the most stupid comment I have read on here since racing re-started.

@Pross suggested Wiggins may have been worse, @DeVlaeminck suggested Bernal and Pogacar have yet to prove themselves. All of which are reasonable points of view even if I don't agree. You've gone with "stupid" which is about as inarticulate a rebuttal as possible.

This is about Thomas not Nibali.

rick_chasey

salsiccia1 said:

If I was asked to pick a preferred winner, I think I'd go for either Kruijswijk or Kelderman.

Welcome aboard the Dutch train.

Current occupants, me and Ridgerider.

Matti66

Dorset_Boy said:

Froome crashed well before the cobbled sectors started and IIRC pulled out before the first cobbled sector as he couldn't hold the bars having broken his wrist.
OK Nibali had come out firing in Sheffield and was in yellow, but there was a long way and a lot of climbing still to go. Nibali hadn't put Froome under any abnormal pressure when Froome crashed out.

Nibali attacked on the decent chasing Segan , it was Froome that put in a big dig on the climb . Froome was knocked off his bike by a wayward cloggie the day before the roubaix stage. No way Nibali would win that Tour with contador or froome in it.

blazing_saddles

TheBigBean said:

blazing_saddles said:

TheBigBean said:

hypster said:

It seems like the only thing that Geraint Thomas can win now is Richie Porte's "World's Unluckiest Rider" crown.

I can't think of a worse rider to win the tour since Sastre and Pereiro, so he's been very lucky in my view even if he never wins anything else.

Probably the most stupid comment I have read on here since racing re-started.

@Pross suggested Wiggins may have been worse, @DeVlaeminck suggested Bernal and Pogacar have yet to prove themselves. All of which are reasonable points of view even if I don't agree. You've gone with "stupid" which is about as inarticulate a rebuttal as possible.

This is about Thomas not Nibali.

This definitely wasn't about Nibali, this was about comparing Geraint Thomas, or even Carlos Sastre, to Oscar Pereiro, which in my book doesn't require an articulate rebuttal.

rick_chasey

Presumably if Nibali wins this Rich will declare it another weak victory because former tour winner Thomas never finished

Lanterne_Rogue

Only thing that winds me up hugely about Nibali is Kirby inevitably wanging on about his descending skill. It looks dramatic but it rarely actually does any damage (to himself or others). It's not even like Alaphilippe, who at least offers the potential he'll go over the side any second now in a Looney Toons-esque cloud of dust and limbs.

Nibali's not even that interesting as a villain. The team car zooming in to pick him up like a cow being abducted by aliens is hilarious, but you can't see him rushing off to tie a virgin to the train tracks in the manner of Valverde.

ocdupalais

rick_chasey said:

salsiccia1 said:

If I was asked to pick a preferred winner, I think I'd go for either Kruijswijk or Kelderman.

Welcome aboard the Dutch train.

Current occupants, me and Ridgerider.

I’ll happily join if we can get a few more funsters on board other than those dullards (I mean K & K: not you and Ridge).

RichN95.

davidof said:

used his experience and skills to put both Froome and Contador under pressure with the result that both crashed out. So yeah, he won a tour against two very good rivals.

Froome that year crashed 4km into the stage because someone crashed right in front of him. There was no pressure, the peloton was ambling along.

RichN95.

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if Nibali wins this Rich will declare it another weak victory because former tour winner Thomas never finished

Well if Thomas and Yates are out of contention, the rest of the field have two GT podiums between them.

TheBigBean

blazing_saddles said:

TheBigBean said:

blazing_saddles said:

TheBigBean said:

hypster said:

It seems like the only thing that Geraint Thomas can win now is Richie Porte's "World's Unluckiest Rider" crown.

I can't think of a worse rider to win the tour since Sastre and Pereiro, so he's been very lucky in my view even if he never wins anything else.

Probably the most stupid comment I have read on here since racing re-started.

@Pross suggested Wiggins may have been worse, @DeVlaeminck suggested Bernal and Pogacar have yet to prove themselves. All of which are reasonable points of view even if I don't agree. You've gone with "stupid" which is about as inarticulate a rebuttal as possible.

This is about Thomas not Nibali.

This definitely wasn't about Nibali, this was about comparing Geraint Thomas, or even Carlos Sastre, to Oscar Pereiro, which in my book doesn't require an articulate rebuttal.

Not something I did, so we can all agree then.

rick_chasey

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if Nibali wins this Rich will declare it another weak victory because former tour winner Thomas never finished

Well if Thomas and Yates are out of contention, the rest of the field have two GT podiums between them.

So tautological this.

ocdupalais

rick_chasey said:

Presumably if Nibali wins this Rich will declare it another weak victory because former tour winner Thomas never finished

..and he’d be correct.
I’ve kind of come around to Nibali (in a way that I’ve done more completely with Valverde), but his brand of merciless opportunism seems to show more in GTs and is always going to be divisive. In another walk of life he’d be called an “entrepreneur” by some... (but I’d be inclined to go with “scrote”).

amrushton

just watch that 2014 stage when Nibali rode the cobbles. lars Boom won the stage but Froome had crashed out, the rain was coming down and Westra and Fulsgang(?) were pulling like a train with Nibali tucked in behind them. That was a TdF winning performance with others hitting the deck and trying to catch him

rick_chasey

I'm genuinely surprised how little value you guys put on being able to finish.

rick_chasey

In fact, the more i think about it, the more this is absolutely outrageous chat.

ddraver

rick_chasey said:

salsiccia1 said:

If I was asked to pick a preferred winner, I think I'd go for either Kruijswijk or Kelderman.

Welcome aboard the Dutch train.

Current occupants, me and Ridgerider.

😥

rick_chasey

You not on the train DD?

blazing_saddles

rick_chasey said:

I'm genuinely surprised how little value you guys put on being able to finish.

No me mate. I agree with you.

Mind you having random bottles and motorbikes thrown into your path is priceless bad luck.
Same for Nibali on the Alp in 2018.
Can't factor such "Acts of God" into the equation.

I'd liken Nibali to a dinner guest who is a great conversationalist and thoroughly entertaining to have around, but occasionally prone to displays of appalling table manners.

mrb123

Thomas out then surprise surprise. Broken hip.

dish_dash

blazing_saddles said:

I'd liken Nibali to a dinner guest who is a great conversationalist and thoroughly entertaining to have around, but occasionally prone to displays of appalling table manners.

And the problem is....?

Pross

rick_chasey said:

I'm genuinely surprised how little value you guys put on being able to finish.

Not really, it's obviously the most important part of a 3 week race. Crashing in a racing situation such as overcooking a corner trying to stay with your rival on a descent suggests your opponent has more skill which is very much a part of bike racing, crashing because you are sitting at the back not paying attention is bad race craft but hitting a bottle and crashing out in the neutral zone is pure bad luck and could have happened to literally any other rider in the field yesterday.

bobmcstuff

rick_chasey said:

salsiccia1 said:

If I was asked to pick a preferred winner, I think I'd go for either Kruijswijk or Kelderman.

Welcome aboard the Dutch train.

Current occupants, me and Ridgerider.

I'll join that train.