TDF 2020 - Stage 20: Lure - La Planche des Belles Filles 36.2 km *Spoilers*

kingstongraham

brundonbianchi said:

This edition of the TdF will be written off anyway. Covid wins.

You seemed to be quite enjoying it up to today. What changed?

Pross

m.r.m. said:

Pross said:

m.r.m. said:

Elated for Pogacar. Utterly insane performance this Tour. How do you decimate Ineos and JV basically on your own? Utterly magnificent. I'm truly blown away.

Feel really sorry for Roglic.

If Roglic were French, he'd be set for life.

He didn't exactly decimate JV did he? He held onto their coat tails on all bar one stage and then put in a superb performance on the only one v one stage. Ineos didn't really turn up until their leader went home.

How else was he supposed to ride when having next to no one to close gaps for him? Compare the UAE riders towards the end of stages around Roglic and Pogacar compared to JV riders.

Froome's attacks to drop his rivals is built off the strength of the team to bridge gaps on other stages (mostly Poels and Porte) or to ride their notorious mountain train tempo. If you do that entirely on your own you get countered after WVA, Bennett, Dumoulin or Kuss have neutralized the attack.

Pogacar won 3 stages and the GC this Tour with practically no team support (outside of de la Cruz). Wouldn't you say it was a masterpiece of building on his strengths with the cards he was dealt. I really don't think we can overstate the achievement in terms of winning with that team. Compare his team to Bernal's last year.

I think the hyperbole (decimate) is justified under the circumstances. Doesn't he have as many stage wins as JV as team this Tour (3 for Pogacar - 1 for Roglic, 2 for WVA)?

I was just pointing out how he did it, the tactic was sound and JV should have done more to lose him but with hindsight maybe Roglic was at his limit. I just don't see how gaining a few seconds on one stage and then smashing his rival one on one in a TT where a team can't help can be called decimation.

shirley_basso

Humiliation, perhaps?

darkhairedlord

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

m.r.m.

Pross said:

m.r.m. said:

Pross said:

m.r.m. said:

Elated for Pogacar. Utterly insane performance this Tour. How do you decimate Ineos and JV basically on your own? Utterly magnificent. I'm truly blown away.

Feel really sorry for Roglic.

If Roglic were French, he'd be set for life.

He didn't exactly decimate JV did he? He held onto their coat tails on all bar one stage and then put in a superb performance on the only one v one stage. Ineos didn't really turn up until their leader went home.

How else was he supposed to ride when having next to no one to close gaps for him? Compare the UAE riders towards the end of stages around Roglic and Pogacar compared to JV riders.

Froome's attacks to drop his rivals is built off the strength of the team to bridge gaps on other stages (mostly Poels and Porte) or to ride their notorious mountain train tempo. If you do that entirely on your own you get countered after WVA, Bennett, Dumoulin or Kuss have neutralized the attack.

Pogacar won 3 stages and the GC this Tour with practically no team support (outside of de la Cruz). Wouldn't you say it was a masterpiece of building on his strengths with the cards he was dealt. I really don't think we can overstate the achievement in terms of winning with that team. Compare his team to Bernal's last year.

I think the hyperbole (decimate) is justified under the circumstances. Doesn't he have as many stage wins as JV as team this Tour (3 for Pogacar - 1 for Roglic, 2 for WVA)?

I was just pointing out how he did it, the tactic was sound and JV should have done more to lose him but with hindsight maybe Roglic was at his limit. I just don't see how gaining a few seconds on one stage and then smashing his rival one on one in a TT where a team can't help can be called decimation.

Okay I can see your point. It is to me though, simply because he won 3 stages and GC despite Roglic having the team he did.

m.r.m.

shirley_basso said:

I agree it was the strongest team but did it feel to you like they were united on the one sole aim of winning GC?

Also - one memorable effort to shift your competition?

I don't think we should make too much out of WVA sprinting for stages. It would have been a problem, if it meant he wasn't there at the end to support Roglic; but he was. He lost nothing to attrition over the 3 weeks as can be seen by his performance in the final week and in the ITT. Maybe JV didn't risk enough. Maybe Roglic should have tried to attack earlier at some point; but maybe he was simply already at his limit and unable to drop Pogacar.

focuszing723

darkhairedlord said:

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

That's easy to say with hindsight. If Roglic hadn't of had a bad day (for whatever reason) everybody would be saying how brilliantly JV controlled the race akin to Sky/Ineos.

blazing_saddles

shirley_basso said:

I agree it was the strongest team but did it feel to you like they were united on the one sole aim of winning GC?

Also - one memorable effort to shift your competition?

I think you are confusing the team's effort with the team leader's ability to follow it through.

No question in my mind Team JV were comfortable on a par with Sky, but Roglic is not Froome.

Lanterne_Rogue

Pross said:

with hindsight maybe Roglic was at his limit

I think a lot of the tour needs re-examining in response to today. If - and I'm not sure I believe this myself, so it's a big IF - Roglic wasn't as good as we assumed he was then JV's tactics make much more sense. You can't burn people off early because it puts Roglic on the rivet. You can't launch him early because after the initial 5 minute effort he's not got the legs.

A lot of us figured they were being overly conservative, but if there's nothing to be conservative about then it takes a different complexion. Maybe JV were actually running a masterclass in bluffing, covering your weaknesses and riding defensively. And they very nearly pulled it off...

Pross

focuszing723 said:

darkhairedlord said:

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

That's easy to say with hindsight. If Roglic hadn't of had a bad day (for whatever reason) everybody would be saying how brilliantly JV controlled the race akin to Sky/Ineos.

Go back through the thread spoilers and you'll see people were saying it at the time. When Sky did the train for Wiggins it was at a pace that no-one could attack off and they knew he was head and shoulders better in the TT than his rivals. When they did it for Froome it generally set him up for a big attack when his rivals were at their limit.

mididoctors

shirley_basso said:

Humiliation, perhaps?

Utterly

mididoctors

Mystery road not half bad

RichN95.

Three notes:

1. For all the ridicule aimed at Bahrain for their efforts this week, they moved Landa up from 7th to 4th

2. If Pogacar has a weakness, it might be high altitude.

3. A journalist said that in Slovenia that fitness and sports participation is taken very seriously, not least by the government. As a result they are not only punching above their weight in pro sports but are also the only European country with dropping rates of childhood obesity.

ddraver

blazing_saddles said:

No question in my mind Team JV were comfortable on a par with Sky, but Roglic is not Froome.

That's it, that's the twe... post!

pblakeney

m.r.m. said:

Pross said:

m.r.m. said:

Pross said:

m.r.m. said:

Elated for Pogacar. Utterly insane performance this Tour. How do you decimate Ineos and JV basically on your own? Utterly magnificent. I'm truly blown away.

Feel really sorry for Roglic.

If Roglic were French, he'd be set for life.

He didn't exactly decimate JV did he? He held onto their coat tails on all bar one stage and then put in a superb performance on the only one v one stage. Ineos didn't really turn up until their leader went home.

How else was he supposed to ride when having next to no one to close gaps for him? Compare the UAE riders towards the end of stages around Roglic and Pogacar compared to JV riders.

Froome's attacks to drop his rivals is built off the strength of the team to bridge gaps on other stages (mostly Poels and Porte) or to ride their notorious mountain train tempo. If you do that entirely on your own you get countered after WVA, Bennett, Dumoulin or Kuss have neutralized the attack.

Pogacar won 3 stages and the GC this Tour with practically no team support (outside of de la Cruz). Wouldn't you say it was a masterpiece of building on his strengths with the cards he was dealt. I really don't think we can overstate the achievement in terms of winning with that team. Compare his team to Bernal's last year.

I think the hyperbole (decimate) is justified under the circumstances. Doesn't he have as many stage wins as JV as team this Tour (3 for Pogacar - 1 for Roglic, 2 for WVA)?

I was just pointing out how he did it, the tactic was sound and JV should have done more to lose him but with hindsight maybe Roglic was at his limit. I just don't see how gaining a few seconds on one stage and then smashing his rival one on one in a TT where a team can't help can be called decimation.

Okay I can see your point. It is to me though, simply because he won 3 stages and GC despite Roglic having the team he did.

Not to mention Polka and White.
Easy to forget given the drama.

rick_chasey

Hard to fault the tactics when we were all blown away by what is one of the TTs of a lifetime.

Would you all be saying Roglic binned it if he finished on Tom’s time?

Think you’re all selling Pog a bit short here.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

Think you’re all selling Pog a bit short here.

He did have a mare though. And that bike switch was awful with a push way more than the legal 5 seconds. That could have come into play if push came to shove. 😉

davidof

Looks like Jaja and Richard called it

davidof
richard_t._biscuit said:
if Pogacar is just a little bit stronger in the final of summit finishes and the TT, with only 40 seconds in a two horse race he can afford to sit on the Jumbo train just as much as Roglic and still have a damn good shot at GC.

Laurent Jalabert thinks the same as you , Roglic could lose it on the TT. However leading on GC can bring out the best in riders in the time trial.

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13113163/tdf-2020-stage-15-lyon-grand-colombier-174-5-km-spoilers/p11

and there is more

salsiccia1 Posts: 3,376
14 September

ddraver said:

2/3 ITV pundits predict Pog FTW...

I think that was wishful thinking on their behalf, perhaps trying to keep viewers interested. If they all said it's over, Roglic has won it then that's not going encourage everyone to tune in. I just can't see JV letting Pog go or Pog beating Roglic in the TT.

2/3 pundits also said Porte would come 3rd and I can't see that either.


DeadCalm
15 September
Pogacar beat Roglic by just 9 seconds in the Slovenian National Champs TT over 15.7km.
Last year, in the Vuelta, Roglc beat Pogacar by almost a minute and a half over 36.2km.
Coincidentally, stage 20 is also 36.2km and the profile looks more similar to the Vuelta stage than the National Champs race. I make Roglic the favourite for the TT.



gsk82

15 September
There isn't a chance in hell that pogacar will beat Roglic in the TT. He needs to find a couple of minutes before then.

Lanterne_Rogue

rick_chasey said:

Would you all be saying Roglic binned it if he finished on Tom’s time?

In my case I suspect that I'd be harder on JV if Roglic had ridden Dumoulin's time. As it is I can almost convince myself it's evidence they rode really well.

A mischievous thought does pop up that maybe they'd have been better off by riding for Dumoulin, but I don't think he was in the form to really take time when people could sit on his wheel and sprint past at the end.

ddraver

I would like to point out that my quote in the aboveabove post was just...

2/3 ITV pundits predict Pog FTW...

😶

above_the_cows

blazing_saddles said:

No question in my mind Team JV were comfortable on a par with Sky, but Roglic is not Froome.

This.

Say what you like about Sky/Ineos but Froome has had some cracking stage wins/attacks out of the GC group where he's shown his dominance.

above_the_cows

Anyway the Toblerone didn't melt!

Yay, 2020 is somewhat saved.

ddraver

(thought - what made the surprise even more...surprising was that WvA and Tommy D's super strong rides just made it look even more like JV had everything wrapped up...

As a twist, you really could'nt have written any better!)

ddraver

above_the_cows said:

Anyway the Toblerone didn't melt!

Yay, 2020 is somewhat saved.

It's noticeable that there are almost as many Congratulatory tweets from riders for Ritchie as for Tadej...

RichN95.

ddraver said:

I would like to point out that my quote in the aboveabove post was just...

2/3 ITV pundits predict Pog FTW...

😶

On the rest day show both Pete Kennaugh and Chris Froome predicted the podium perfectly. Admittedly, the choice of Porte will have been a little biased.

But one pundit predicted at the beginning of the race that no-one from Jumbo or Ineos would win, and only one of them would podium. He also had each way bets on Pogacar (12/1) and Porte (150/1). He tends to lose his mind on PTP though.

bobmcstuff

focuszing723 said:

His helmet all off his bonce was a bit odd considering how importantly they take all the aerodynamics.

Before the climb he had a visor on too, if you watch the start. So it looked fine until he ditched the visor on the climb...

ddraver

RichN95. said:

But one pundit predicted at the beginning of the race that no-one from Jumbo or Ineos would win, and only one of them would podium. He also had each way bets on Pogacar (12/1) and Porte (150/1). He tends to lose his mind on PTP though.

m.r.m.

above_the_cows said:

Anyway the Toblerone didn't melt!

Yay, 2020 is somewhat saved.

As always, that Toblerone is regular size.

focuszing723

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

His helmet all off his bonce was a bit odd considering how importantly they take all the aerodynamics.

Before the climb he had a visor on too, if you watch the start. So it looked fine until he ditched the visor on the climb...

Ah, cheers that explains it.

RichN95.

This is nice