TDF 2020 - Stage 20: Lure - La Planche des Belles Filles 36.2 km *Spoilers*

bobmcstuff

above_the_cows said:

blazing_saddles said:

No question in my mind Team JV were comfortable on a par with Sky, but Roglic is not Froome.

This.

Say what you like about Sky/Ineos but Froome has had some cracking stage wins/attacks out of the GC group where he's shown his dominance.

That's what I thought about JV's ride... Sky with Froome very rarely finished a mountain stage with multiple domestiques left, they would burn them off to set up an attack - or the others would not ride so hard. Sky planned to have certain guys take days off, or take it easy till the 3rd week. JV didn't do that - it was the same guys all the time.

Finishing a mountain stage with 3 domestiques left just feels like a waste to me - even if in hindsight maybe Roglic couldn't do any more.

bobmcstuff

Credit: Matt Rotheram's Instagram...

ddraver

Pross

above_the_cows said:

Anyway the Toblerone didn't melt!

Yay, 2020 is somewhat saved.

He has to get through tomorrow unscathed!

hillrunner

hillrunner said:

I think dom dom and wva finish 1 and 2.

Got the order right but didn’t think Pog would dominate like that

bobmcstuff

Interviewer: is this your childhood dream?

Pogacar: no, actually my dream was just to be on the tour de France

N'aww

RichN95.

bobmcstuff said:

That's what I thought about JV's ride... Sky with Froome very rarely finished a mountain stage with multiple domestiques left, they would burn them off to set up an attack - or the others would not ride so hard. Sky planned to have certain guys take days off, or take it easy till the 3rd week. JV didn't do that - it was the same guys all the time.

Finishing a mountain stage with 3 domestiques left just feels like a waste to me - even if in hindsight maybe Roglic couldn't do any more.

Ultimately Roglic is good, but not that good. Pogacar did what riders could have done against Sky, but they weren't as good as Sky's leaders.

I think that cycling writers hated Froome's shape on the bike so much that they tried to devalue his achievements as a team effort, saying that anyone could win with that team. Roglic shows that's not true.

bobmcstuff

Pross said:

above_the_cows said:

Anyway the Toblerone didn't melt!

Yay, 2020 is somewhat saved.

He has to get through tomorrow unscathed!

His bike will probably explode just before 3km to go

RichN95.

I had a look back at that crosswinds stage that Pogacar lost time on. Admittedly it's just the highlights but Jumbo didn't get involved in the front group. FdJ drove it with Astana on the assist.
They seem like a football team that was sitting on a 1-0 lead but then defended too deep.

m.r.m.

Wasn't it Kwiatkowski driving it as well?

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

Wasn't it Kwiatkowski driving it as well?

Astana too. I didn't see Jumbo up there in the highlights much.

bobmcstuff

focuszing723 said:

darkhairedlord said:

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

That's easy to say with hindsight. If Roglic hadn't of had a bad day (for whatever reason) everybody would be saying how brilliantly JV controlled the race akin to Sky/Ineos.

I don't think Roglic had an especially bad day. If you'd said to him beforehand that he would concede 30s to Dumoulin, he would have thought that was enough. He clearly cracked a bit on the climb but he still came 5th on the stage. I think if you told anyone yesterday morning that Roglic would come 5th on the stage, 30s down on Dumoulin, you would assume he had won.

Pogacar did the ride of the century.

JV didn't turn the screw when they perhaps should have at other points, but nobody saw that coming.

salsiccia1

davidof said:

and there is more

salsiccia1 Posts: 3,376
14 September

ddraver said:

2/3 ITV pundits predict Pog FTW...

I think that was wishful thinking on their behalf, perhaps trying to keep viewers interested. If they all said it's over, Roglic has won it then that's not going encourage everyone to tune in. I just can't see JV letting Pog go or Pog beating Roglic in the TT.

2/3 pundits also said Porte would come 3rd and I can't see that either.

Just goes to show, maybe experts do know what they're on about

focuszing723

This shot sums up the stage for me.

focuszing723

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

darkhairedlord said:

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

That's easy to say with hindsight. If Roglic hadn't of had a bad day (for whatever reason) everybody would be saying how brilliantly JV controlled the race akin to Sky/Ineos.

I don't think Roglic had an especially bad day. If you'd said to him beforehand that he would concede 30s to Dumoulin, he would have thought that was enough. He clearly cracked a bit on the climb but he still came 5th on the stage. I think if you told anyone yesterday morning that Roglic would come 5th on the stage, 30s down on Dumoulin, you would assume he had won.

Pogacar did the ride of the century.

JV didn't turn the screw when they perhaps should have at other points, but nobody saw that coming.

That's a fair point and like you said Pogacars was a ride of the century.

above_the_cows

RichN95. said:

bobmcstuff said:

That's what I thought about JV's ride... Sky with Froome very rarely finished a mountain stage with multiple domestiques left, they would burn them off to set up an attack - or the others would not ride so hard. Sky planned to have certain guys take days off, or take it easy till the 3rd week. JV didn't do that - it was the same guys all the time.

Finishing a mountain stage with 3 domestiques left just feels like a waste to me - even if in hindsight maybe Roglic couldn't do any more.

Ultimately Roglic is good, but not that good. Pogacar did what riders could have done against Sky, but they weren't as good as Sky's leaders.

I think that cycling writers hated Froome's shape on the bike so much that they tried to devalue his achievements as a team effort, saying that anyone could win with that team. Roglic shows that's not true.

Anyone who doubts Froome's abilities after *that* Giro stage have an agenda. You don't have to like him, but you have to recognise the man's talents.

above_the_cows

bobmcstuff said:

Pross said:

above_the_cows said:

Anyway the Toblerone didn't melt!

Yay, 2020 is somewhat saved.

He has to get through tomorrow unscathed!

His bike will probably explode just before 3km to go

TheBigBean

RichN95. said:

bobmcstuff said:

That's what I thought about JV's ride... Sky with Froome very rarely finished a mountain stage with multiple domestiques left, they would burn them off to set up an attack - or the others would not ride so hard. Sky planned to have certain guys take days off, or take it easy till the 3rd week. JV didn't do that - it was the same guys all the time.

Finishing a mountain stage with 3 domestiques left just feels like a waste to me - even if in hindsight maybe Roglic couldn't do any more.

Ultimately Roglic is good, but not that good. Pogacar did what riders could have done against Sky, but they weren't as good as Sky's leaders.

I think that cycling writers hated Froome's shape on the bike so much that they tried to devalue his achievements as a team effort, saying that anyone could win with that team. Roglic shows that's not true.

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Edited for spelling

shirley_basso

But there remains mystique. The strongest guy does always win - but a less strong guy can be flattered by a good team - the ITT makes it all that more exciting

RichN95.

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

salsiccia1

RichN95. said:

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

Well according to one poster, it was going to be a Bianchi wot wun it, so fair enough

Dorset_Boy

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

darkhairedlord said:

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

That's easy to say with hindsight. If Roglic hadn't of had a bad day (for whatever reason) everybody would be saying how brilliantly JV controlled the race akin to Sky/Ineos.

I don't think Roglic had an especially bad day. If you'd said to him beforehand that he would concede 30s to Dumoulin, he would have thought that was enough. He clearly cracked a bit on the climb but he still came 5th on the stage. I think if you told anyone yesterday morning that Roglic would come 5th on the stage, 30s down on Dumoulin, you would assume he had won.

Pogacar did the ride of the century.

JV didn't turn the screw when they perhaps should have at other points, but nobody saw that coming.

Hope you don't really think that was "THE" ride of the century, but was one of the top 3 or 4, the others being Froome's Giro stage as THE ride of the century and then yesterday and MVP's ride to win Amstell last year as the other standouts.

It was a great ride though, and he looked really good and relaxed towards the top of the climb.

pblakeney

shirley_basso said:

But there remains mystique. The strongest guy does always win - but a less strong guy can be flattered by a good team - the ITT makes it all that more exciting

Not if he crashes. 😉

davidof

ddraver said:

I would like to point out that my quote in the aboveabove post was just...

2/3 ITV pundits predict Pog FTW...

😶

Noted

mididoctors

I thought pogacar had a shot at winning after he got back to 40 secs on GC but when he started losing time at luze and looking stressed on other stages where his attacks amounted to nothing I was kinda no roglic has this. Most of the predictions pogacar could still win started drying up post the col De luze

rick_chasey

mididoctors said:

I thought pogacar had a shot at winning after he got back to 40 secs on GC but when he started losing time at luze and looking stressed on other stages where his attacks amounted to nothing I was kinda no roglic has this. Most of the predictions pogacar could still win started drying up post the col De luze

It was massively unexpected for Pog to ride that TT. It was *very* good.

Even on a top day, which Roglic wasn’t (not not a bad day either) Roglic would have lost that TT and yellow.

Think it’s a bit much criticising tactics for not taking that TT into account.

Ultimately if you lose your tactics are always wrong but going into it we all were assuming it’d be variants of a coronation.

What is a shame is Pog not taking yellow on day 9 and watching jumbo try to work over uae.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

mididoctors said:

I thought pogacar had a shot at winning after he got back to 40 secs on GC but when he started losing time at luze and looking stressed on other stages where his attacks amounted to nothing I was kinda no roglic has this. Most of the predictions pogacar could still win started drying up post the col De luze

It was massively unexpected for Pog to ride that TT. It was *very* good.

Even on a top day, which Roglic wasn’t (not not a bad day either) Roglic would have lost that TT and yellow.

Think it’s a bit much criticising tactics for not taking that TT into account.

Ultimately if you lose your tactics are always wrong but going into it we all were assuming it’d be variants of a coronation.

What is a shame is Pog not taking yellow on day 9 and watching jumbo try to work over uae.

Just proves that Pog was smarter than that.

yellowv2

RichN95. said:

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

Surely it was the Campagnolo GS that won it, when was the last time Campagnolo won a TdF?

pblakeney

yellowv2 said:

RichN95. said:

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

Surely it was the Campagnolo GS that won it, when was the last time Campagnolo won a TdF?

Well, Alaphilippe didn't seem too keen on his Shimano groupset.
That may well have been looking for an excuse though. 😉

mididoctors

pogacar's team won him the tour by keeping him in contention in the crosswinds. if they had not limited his losses that day he would not have won the tour.