TDF 2020 - Stage 20: Lure - La Planche des Belles Filles 36.2 km *Spoilers*

mididoctors

yellowv2 said:

RichN95. said:

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

Surely it was the Campagnolo GS that won it, when was the last time Campagnolo won a TdF?

ullrich i think?
was nibali on slagnola?

blazing_saddles

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

mididoctors said:

I thought pogacar had a shot at winning after he got back to 40 secs on GC but when he started losing time at luze and looking stressed on other stages where his attacks amounted to nothing I was kinda no roglic has this. Most of the predictions pogacar could still win started drying up post the col De luze

It was massively unexpected for Pog to ride that TT. It was *very* good.

Even on a top day, which Roglic wasn’t (not not a bad day either) Roglic would have lost that TT and yellow.

Think it’s a bit much criticising tactics for not taking that TT into account.

Ultimately if you lose your tactics are always wrong but going into it we all were assuming it’d be variants of a coronation.

What is a shame is Pog not taking yellow on day 9 and watching jumbo try to work over uae.

Just proves that Pog was smarter than that.

Ben Hermans said he was the strongest, but because of the team situation, he'd likely leave it as late as possible to take the jersey.
Just nobody thought it would be quite so late.

brundonbianchi

focuszing723 said:

brundonbianchi said:

This edition of the TdF will be written off anyway. Covid wins.

I think a fair few thought that would be the case, it was in the back of my mind. No! Podacar won in an exceptional way in an exceptional year. One which favours the young.

I remember watching the Lemond / Fignon TT, in 1989. Yesterday’s effort was even more of a stunning result. There were a lot of parallels as well.

brundonbianchi

pblakeney said:

shirley_basso said:

But there remains mystique. The strongest guy does always win - but a less strong guy can be flattered by a good team - the ITT makes it all that more exciting

Not if he crashes. 😉

He’d have to crash, and be carted off on a stretcher. I can’t recall that ever happening in this situation.

brundonbianchi

mididoctors said:

pogacar's team won him the tour by keeping him in contention in the crosswinds. if they had not limited his losses that day he would not have won the tour.

Given the time he put into Roglic on the TT, I think he may have won regardless.

pblakeney

brundonbianchi said:

pblakeney said:

shirley_basso said:

But there remains mystique. The strongest guy does always win - but a less strong guy can be flattered by a good team - the ITT makes it all that more exciting

Not if he crashes. 😉

He’d have to crash, and be carted off on a stretcher. I can’t recall that ever happening in this situation.

We were discussing the entire race, not the stage.

mididoctors

brundonbianchi said:

mididoctors said:

pogacar's team won him the tour by keeping him in contention in the crosswinds. if they had not limited his losses that day he would not have won the tour.

Given the time he put into Roglic on the TT, I think he may have won regardless.

Get a grip, your talking like a mad man

bobmcstuff

Dorset_Boy said:

bobmcstuff said:

focuszing723 said:

darkhairedlord said:

JV wasted three weeks of dominance by riding a conservative race.

That's easy to say with hindsight. If Roglic hadn't of had a bad day (for whatever reason) everybody would be saying how brilliantly JV controlled the race akin to Sky/Ineos.

I don't think Roglic had an especially bad day. If you'd said to him beforehand that he would concede 30s to Dumoulin, he would have thought that was enough. He clearly cracked a bit on the climb but he still came 5th on the stage. I think if you told anyone yesterday morning that Roglic would come 5th on the stage, 30s down on Dumoulin, you would assume he had won.

Pogacar did the ride of the century.

JV didn't turn the screw when they perhaps should have at other points, but nobody saw that coming.

Hope you don't really think that was "THE" ride of the century, but was one of the top 3 or 4, the others being Froome's Giro stage as THE ride of the century and then yesterday and MVP's ride to win Amstell last year as the other standouts.

It was a great ride though, and he looked really good and relaxed towards the top of the climb.

No, it was a figure of speech! I probably said the same about Froome's Giro ride...

In the top 3 or 4 definitely though, surely.

ridgerider

Looking at Roglic's helmet fit, and noticing some strange head turning twitches from Dumoulin on the climb, I wonder if they both got a bit hot under there.

brundonbianchi

mididoctors said:

brundonbianchi said:

mididoctors said:

pogacar's team won him the tour by keeping him in contention in the crosswinds. if they had not limited his losses that day he would not have won the tour.

Given the time he put into Roglic on the TT, I think he may have won regardless.

Get a grip, your talking like a mad man

He neutralised 57 seconds, then put a minute into him on top of that. That was something ( I certainly ) can’t recall seeing in recent times, excluding Lance.

jimmyjams

pblakeney said:

yellowv2 said:

RichN95. said:

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

Surely it was the Campagnolo GS that won it, when was the last time Campagnolo won a TdF?

Well, Alaphilippe didn't seem too keen on his Shimano groupset.
That may well have been looking for an excuse though. 😉

In the French media, Laurent Jalabert was pretty negative about the Shimano electronic derailleur, and how it was causing Alaphilippe problems, this said already during stage 16.

brundonbianchi

jimmyjams said:

pblakeney said:

yellowv2 said:

RichN95. said:

TheBigBean said:

Cycling writers like cycling fans like to go on about the teamwork and the tactics. Saying that the strongest guy won, and would have done at any team removes some of mystique of the sport.

Although looking at them on Twitter today, the Tour was won on its own by a Colnago.

Surely it was the Campagnolo GS that won it, when was the last time Campagnolo won a TdF?

Well, Alaphilippe didn't seem too keen on his Shimano groupset.
That may well have been looking for an excuse though. 😉

In the French media, Laurent Jalabert was pretty negative about the Shimano electronic derailleur, and how it was causing Alaphilippe problems, this said already during stage 16.

That said, I’ve got a Campag SR EPS 12 speed on my best bike, and it has been a bit of a bitch ( front mech losing its position on the transition ) recently. It’s not a big deal to sort out, but it’s a bit irritating at times.

ddraver

Was that the one where he was hitting his bike?

In the interview afterwards he admitted it was out of frustration ( /hissy fit) not because anything was actually wrong.

Same with Sagan and the selfie stick...

pblakeney

ddraver said:

Was that the one where he was hitting his bike?

In the interview afterwards he admitted it was out of frustration ( /hissy fit) not because anything was actually wrong.

Same with Sagan and the selfie stick...

That's what I was referring to initially.

ddraver

https://twitter.com/fshires/status/1308467167592173574?s=19

bobmcstuff

Dumoulin:

""What can I say? It happened. I don't know how Pogacar climbed a minute faster than I did," Dumoulin said. "We hadn't taken this into account, this is quite a blow. The Tour win slips from our hands. I rode well again, but that doesn't matter anymore.

"Pogacar was too strong today. He was at a completely different level than we were. Primoz felt good, he knew he had to put down a good time trial. He hasn't ridden his best, but it certainly wasn't bad either. We expected it to be enough"

Just supporting the idea that Roglic's TT wasn't that bad, and Pogacar's was incredible.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-aert-and-dumoulin-stunned-as-tour-de-france-slips-through-jumbo-vismas-fingers/

DeVlaeminck

On the other hand he lost a minute on Dumoulin - I know Dumoulin is a top TTer but Roglic is too and had been in consistently better form than Dumoulin. I also thought Roglic looked to be in a very light gear - I know they train for high cadence but it just looked frantic...untidy...whereas Pogacar just looked more powerful.

pblakeney

DeVlaeminck said:

On the other hand he lost a minute on Dumoulin - I know Dumoulin is a top TTer but Roglic is too and had been in consistently better form than Dumoulin. I also thought Roglic looked to be in a very light gear - I know they train for high cadence but it just looked frantic...untidy...whereas Pogacar just looked more powerful.

Strangely I thought Roglic was on a bigger gear than usual trying to make up time.
He didn't look himself. How often do you see him out of the saddle except sprinting?

Dorset_Boy

I think that Roglic and his DS panicked big time when they saw how well Pogacar was going and that made Roglic lose his normal rythym. Had JV spent any time analysing this TT because it seems Pogacar had really done his homework.

bobmcstuff

DeVlaeminck said:

On the other hand he lost a minute on Dumoulin - I know Dumoulin is a top TTer but Roglic is too and had been in consistently better form than Dumoulin. I also thought Roglic looked to be in a very light gear - I know they train for high cadence but it just looked frantic...untidy...whereas Pogacar just looked more powerful.

He only came in 35s behind Dumoulin, not a minute.

Dumoulin lost 1'21" to Pogacar, Roglic 1'56"

As I said before, I think if you told Roglic/JV in the morning before that Roglic would finish in 5th, 30s behind Dumoulin, I think they would have assumed they had won the Tour. Even if it's not quite the performance they might have hoped for.

dish_dash

Dorset_Boy said:

I think that Roglic and his DS panicked big time when they saw how well Pogacar was going and that made Roglic lose his normal rythym. Had JV spent any time analysing this TT because it seems Pogacar had really done his homework.

Yeah! I was thinking this earlier. The Alan Pieper interview suggests that UAE really prepared for this TT - both in terms of recon and equipment, plus bike change over. Jumbo don't seem to have done the same level of prep and I suspect were already operating under the assumption that they had won so took the eye off the ball.

Pog didn't do a recon on the day but chilled in his room, while Rog did do a recon...

https://pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/uae-team-emirates-ds-allan-peiper-talks-tadej-pogacar-2020-tour-de-france/

No_Ta_Doctor

The article the quote about gearing (above) comes from is here:
https://pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/uae-team-emirates-ds-allan-peiper-talks-tadej-pogacar-2020-tour-de-france/

Very interesting.

Pogacars preparation was pretty much perfect, and on the day itself he was able to chill out and rest.

Dorset_Boy said:

I think that Roglic and his DS panicked big time when they saw how well Pogacar was going and that made Roglic lose his normal rythym.

I agree with this, and have said the same elsewhere. It's not that Roglic didn't fight (though he may have given up i the last km or so), it's that he panicked a bit and didn't use his energy well.

Essentially, UAE out-Skyed Jumbo-Visma.

I don't know what prep JV had done, but contrast this:
New helmet, never worn before V Full dress-rehearsal in July
Recceing on the morning & being in the hustle and bustle of the start area V Knowing the course intimately, doing 30 mins on the rollers and chilling out at the hotel
Fluffing the bike change V Practising the bike change and getting it down to 7 seconds, at exactly the place they'd picked out beforehand.

davidof

and perhaps Pogacar had realized that a big mountain attack was hopeless and had soft pedaled a bit just keeping Roglic in view in the days before the TT?

mididoctors

davidof said:

and perhaps Pogacar had realized that a big mountain attack was hopeless and had soft pedaled a bit just keeping Roglic in view in the days before the TT?

He wouldn't let the wheel go on the loze as a ruse. He had to stay in contact .

m.r.m.

The advantage of being young is usually being able to recover faster from day to day.

No_Ta_Doctor

m.r.m. said:

The advantage of being young is usually being able to recover faster from day to day.

This goes for alcohol consumption as well.

m.r.m.

The biggest and most obvious secret to avoiding a hangover I've ever found is to pound a ton of water before going to bed. If you drink water between drinks at the party so much the better, but as long as you can get a litre or more before bed, usually results in no hangover at all for me. Okay, I tend to be fortunate to not get much of a hangover anyway.

RichN95.

No_Ta_Doctor said:

m.r.m. said:

The advantage of being young is usually being able to recover faster from day to day.

This goes for alcohol consumption as well.

I'm the Alejandro Valverde of alcohol consumption. I don't think this is a good thing.

ddraver

m.r.m. said:

The biggest and most obvious secret to avoiding a hangover I've ever found is to pound a ton of water before going to bed. If you drink water between drinks at the party so much the better, but as long as you can get a litre or more before bed, usually results in no hangover at all for me. Okay, I tend to be fortunate to not get much of a hangover anyway.

You re just or drinking enough!

(which is a good thing...)

m.r.m.

Probably true, but I think it's tied more to the hangover coming from dehydration the alcohol does to you. If you counteract that before sleeping you're in way better shape the next day.

You guys can maybe remedy the not drinking enough problem at the next meetup. Though I would currently prefer one in continental Europe instead of London. Would be in for London next spring/summer though (Covid allowing).