The big Coronavirus thread

tailwindhome

thegreasedscotsman said:

It's backdated to the beginning of March.

There's more detail to come out this week but it's my understanding that the backdating is to cover those employees who already had been laid off.

It would be my take on it that your employer can't 'furlough' you without your agreement unless short time/temporary lay off is explicitly covered in your contract.

If you refuse they can make you redundant in which case they pay you your wages due, notice pay as per your contract, holiday pay and redundancy pay.

You're in a different position in that you're working your notice.

In my view you are entitled to your wages earned so far, holiday pay and notice pay to your leaving date or per your contract which ever is shorter.

ddraver

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

The antibodies, 'have you already had it' test could be days away.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1242818095590313988?s=19

I remain convinced that with unlimited resources the scientists will find solutions in closer to 18 weeks than 18 months

The turning point, IM uniformed O, is going to be that test combined with proving that once you've had it, you re immune (for a decent length of time).

morstar

thegreasedscotsman said:

Thanks for the replies Pross and morstar

surrey_commuter said:

thegreasedscotsman said:

Any employment lawyers out there? My current employer is now talking about furloughing most of it's staff, but I'm currently working my notice with them, due to leave on the 3rd April. Do I have to accept this from them? Should I hold out for a full final salary from them?

IANAL but if I understand correctly are you talking about 20% of 7 (at most) days salary? if so then I think the effort to fight it will outweigh the gain.

I think it's more than that. It's backdated to the beginning of March. And also have 6 days holiday they owe me for as well.

I'm a bit concerned about the new job I'm going to, no idea what's going to happen there. Maybe I'll need everybit of cash I can get hold of at the moment.

Haven't spoken to any accounts or HR person yet, I'll see what they say, but maybe give a little push against it, see what happens.

Funnily enough, I got offered a job 10 days ago. Need to decide whether to accept y close of play tomorrow. I have discussed my concerns about timing of move with employer. He is adamant they are in a great position and have projects starting even now.
It just feels like an un-necessary risk to take.
Either my current or prospective employer could need to make cuts but I feel there’s just a bit more security as an incumbent. Especially if I get ill.

Pross

tailwindhome said:

thegreasedscotsman said:

It's backdated to the beginning of March.

There's more detail to come out this week but it's my understanding that the backdating is to cover those employees who already had been laid off.

It would be my take on it that your employer can't 'furlough' you without your agreement unless short time/temporary lay off is explicitly covered in your contract.

If you refuse they can make you redundant in which case they pay you your wages due, notice pay as per your contract, holiday pay and redundancy pay.

You're in a different position in that you're working your notice.

In my view you are entitled to your wages earned so far, holiday pay and notice pay to your leaving date or per your contract which ever is shorter.

That was my assumption too. Don't accept any amendment to your current contract and they'll still be bound by it. As far as I'm aware unless they go insolvent they have to pay up.

Pross

The endless 'inspirational' look at the fun we're having in isolation videos are going to kill me long before Covid or the effects of any recession. I'm really looking forward to seeing these cheerful families in a few weeks.

ballysmate

Pross said:

The endless 'inspirational' look at the fun we're having in isolation videos are going to kill me long before Covid or the effects of any recession. I'm really looking forward to seeing these cheerful families in a few weeks.

I'm somewhat insulated against that as the closest to soshal meeja I get is here.

Pross

ballysmate said:

Pross said:

The endless 'inspirational' look at the fun we're having in isolation videos are going to kill me long before Covid or the effects of any recession. I'm really looking forward to seeing these cheerful families in a few weeks.

I'm somewhat insulated against that as the closest to soshal meeja I get is here.

If you watch something like the One Show they're kind enough to share them with you. I should have put it in the trivially annoying thread really.

surrey_commuter

thegreasedscotsman said:

Thanks for the replies Pross and morstar

surrey_commuter said:

thegreasedscotsman said:

Any employment lawyers out there? My current employer is now talking about furloughing most of it's staff, but I'm currently working my notice with them, due to leave on the 3rd April. Do I have to accept this from them? Should I hold out for a full final salary from them?

IANAL but if I understand correctly are you talking about 20% of 7 (at most) days salary? if so then I think the effort to fight it will outweigh the gain.

I think it's more than that. It's backdated to the beginning of March. And also have 6 days holiday they owe me for as well.

I'm a bit concerned about the new job I'm going to, no idea what's going to happen there. Maybe I'll need everybit of cash I can get hold of at the moment.

Haven't spoken to any accounts or HR person yet, I'll see what they say, but maybe give a little push against it, see what happens.

The whole concept of furloughing is that you are paid 80% when you have been laid off. They can not apply the 80% retrospectively. They will still owe you the six days though I would confirm that is company policy.

Good luck with the new job. I had somebody start today and it is not easy. My advice is to get in contact with them and try and sort as much as possible before you join so that you shorten the period of time you are on the payroll but not productive.

briantrumpet

ballysmate said:

Pross said:

The endless 'inspirational' look at the fun we're having in isolation videos are going to kill me long before Covid or the effects of any recession. I'm really looking forward to seeing these cheerful families in a few weeks.

I'm somewhat insulated against that as the closest to soshal meeja I get is here.

Oh, howd'ya cope? Would you like to see what I had for supper tonight?

ballysmate

briantrumpet said:

ballysmate said:

Pross said:

The endless 'inspirational' look at the fun we're having in isolation videos are going to kill me long before Covid or the effects of any recession. I'm really looking forward to seeing these cheerful families in a few weeks.

I'm somewhat insulated against that as the closest to soshal meeja I get is here.

Oh, howd'ya cope? Would you like to see what I had for supper tonight?

The reason I don't do it is that I don't feel my diet is interesting enough.

briantrumpet

ballysmate said:

briantrumpet said:

ballysmate said:

Pross said:

The endless 'inspirational' look at the fun we're having in isolation videos are going to kill me long before Covid or the effects of any recession. I'm really looking forward to seeing these cheerful families in a few weeks.

I'm somewhat insulated against that as the closest to soshal meeja I get is here.

Oh, howd'ya cope? Would you like to see what I had for supper tonight?

The reason I don't do it is that I don't feel my diet is interesting enough.

Mine was slightly interesting tonight. Can't remember what the food was though.

rick_chasey

https://www.ft.com/content/c6d2de3a-6ec5-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

Draghi in the FT - free to read

thegreasedscotsman

surrey_commuter said:

They will still owe you the six days though I would confirm that is company policy.

Yeah, I've had all this confirmed last week, either in letter or email.

Thanks for all the comments, we'll see how it goes.

tailwindhome

...

Jeremy.89

ddraver said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

The antibodies, 'have you already had it' test could be days away.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1242818095590313988?s=19

I remain convinced that with unlimited resources the scientists will find solutions in closer to 18 weeks than 18 months

The turning point, IM uniformed O, is going to be that test combined with proving that once you've had it, you re immune (for a decent length of time).

I think the 18 months being closer to 18 weeks may be wishful thinking. Unfortunately lots of the potential research will involve long lead times by necessity... If one woman takes 9 months to grow a baby, can 9 women grow a baby in one month?

Testing if a vaccine will take a significant amount of time, and is not guaranteed to be successful. Perhaps existing anti viral treatments could offer some promise though.

In my similarly unqualified opinion, the greatest hope lies with the anti body test, and the recent paper that suggested the virus was much more prevalent than thought. However, that paper seems to be a significant outlier to most studies.

kingstongraham

There's another article about that study in the times now. While it would be great if they are right, quote:

Paul Hunter, from the University of East Anglia, said yesterday that he was not especially impressed with the Oxford approach: “All models are wrong, just some are more wrong than others. I don’t see this as a serious contributor to epidemiology. It’s very naive and makes a number of assumptions where it is unclear how it came to them.”

Most researchers The Times spoke to agreed with Professor Hunter’s assessment. Or, as one put it, the Oxford team have used “very sophisticated methods for polishing a turd”.

Ultimately, both teams do agree on one thing: this debate will not be resolved with equations. Britain has ordered 3.5 million antibody testing kits. These will, at last, tell us who has caught coronavirus and who has not.

tailwindhome

ddraver

Jeremy.89 said:

ddraver said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

The antibodies, 'have you already had it' test could be days away.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1242818095590313988?s=19

I remain convinced that with unlimited resources the scientists will find solutions in closer to 18 weeks than 18 months

The turning point, IM uniformed O, is going to be that test combined with proving that once you've had it, you re immune (for a decent length of time).

I think the 18 months being closer to 18 weeks may be wishful thinking. Unfortunately lots of the potential research will involve long lead times by necessity... If one woman takes 9 months to grow a baby, can 9 women grow a baby in one month?

Testing if a vaccine will take a significant amount of time, and is not guaranteed to be successful. Perhaps existing anti viral treatments could offer some promise though.

In my similarly unqualified opinion, the greatest hope lies with the anti body test, and the recent paper that suggested the virus was much more prevalent than thought. However, that paper seems to be a significant outlier to most studies.

Hence why I don't think a vaccine will be the solution to the problem...

rjsterry

Someone really needs to brief Nadim Zahawi properly before he goes on Newsnight. If you were an NHS worker were hoping to be reassured that the government had some kind of grip on getting supplies of PPE, testing and ventilators sortrd, he probably made things worse. Whether things are as bad as he made them seem is another matter. If there's one time politicians need to not be evasive in interviews...

kingstongraham

Well, here's hoping...

https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1242760717247434752?s=19

Pross

Faced the grim reality of this virus this morning. The wife got a call from the hospital at 6.15am to confirm her aunt's test had come back positive and that she wasn't doing well. As she had a DNAR in place she wouldn't be going into ICU. They said my wife could be with her if she was well enough and comfortable with the risk but we had another call an hour later to say she's passed away.

Yes, she was late 80s with lots of health issues and we'd been expecting it since she'd been admitted on Monday evening but ultimately all these numbers aren't just statistics, they're all people with friends and relatives who cared for them.

Wheelspinner

Feckit Pross, very sad to hear that.

tailwindhome

kingstongraham said:

Well, here's hoping...

https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1242760717247434752?s=19

I hope so too. But how does this square with their analysis that the NHS capacity will be breached under any circumstances.

Some assumption or variable must have been changed.

rick_chasey

rick_chasey said:

https://www.ft.com/content/c6d2de3a-6ec5-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

Draghi in the FT - free to read

So this is a really good piece of writing.

I'll highlight the key bits since I recon 3/4s are thinking "who the f*ck is Draghi" and aren't bothering to read it.

It is the proper role of the state to deploy its balance sheet to protect citizens and the economy against shocks that the private sector is not responsible for and cannot absorb

The key question is not whether but how the state should put its balance sheet to good use. The priority must not only be providing basic income for those who lose their jobs. We must protect people from losing their jobs in the first place. If we do not, we will emerge from this crisis with permanently lower employment and capacity, as families and companies struggle to repair their balance sheets and rebuild net assets.

Public debt levels will have increased. But the alternative — a permanent destruction of productive capacity and therefore of the fiscal base — would be much more damaging to the economy and eventually to government credit. We must also remember that given the present and probable future levels of interest rates, such an increase in government debt will not add to its servicing costs. 

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

Faced the grim reality of this virus this morning. The wife got a call from the hospital at 6.15am to confirm her aunt's test had come back positive and that she wasn't doing well. As she had a DNAR in place she wouldn't be going into ICU. They said my wife could be with her if she was well enough and comfortable with the risk but we had another call an hour later to say she's passed away.

Yes, she was late 80s with lots of health issues and we'd been expecting it since she'd been admitted on Monday evening but ultimately all these numbers aren't just statistics, they're all people with friends and relatives who cared for them.

Very sorry to hear that and is a poignant reminder of the human costs that lie behind the academic modelling mentioned in the post above yours.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

Faced the grim reality of this virus this morning. The wife got a call from the hospital at 6.15am to confirm her aunt's test had come back positive and that she wasn't doing well. As she had a DNAR in place she wouldn't be going into ICU. They said my wife could be with her if she was well enough and comfortable with the risk but we had another call an hour later to say she's passed away.

Yes, she was late 80s with lots of health issues and we'd been expecting it since she'd been admitted on Monday evening but ultimately all these numbers aren't just statistics, they're all people with friends and relatives who cared for them.

Very sorry to hear that Pross.

rick_chasey

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

pblakeney

Pross said:

... but ultimately all these numbers aren't just statistics, they're all people with friends and relatives who cared for them.

😢😢😢

DeVlaeminck

tailwindhome said:

kingstongraham said:

Well, here's hoping...

https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1242760717247434752?s=19

I hope so too. But how does this square with their analysis that the NHS capacity will be breached under any circumstances.

Some assumption or variable must have been changed.

I suppose they may now be factoring in increased capcity to deal with respiratory failure - haven't we ramped up the number of respirators several times over? I don't know just guessing.

Stevo_666

Commiserations Pross, very sad.