The big Coronavirus thread

elbowloh

I remember reading a Tom Clancy book quite a number of years back and there was some sort of world-wide disaster that set the global economy into meltdown. The crisis was resolved by everyone agreeing to reset the economy back to what existed pre-disaster, as if it never happened, much like a system restore point on your PC.
Bearing in mind, money is really just a human invented concept and in most cases is just virtual and, just as a debating point, why can't we do this?

Also, following on from this crisis, does anyone think that this will result in the UK (and the world) having a bit of a reset of what is valued in our society. Will we suddenly recognise that those who actually add real value to society (e.g. the NHS workers, the food providers, those who provide essential services) will be given greater respect in the future rather than those who just make a lot of money?

Pross

I hope the Dyson ventilators are better quality than their vacuum cleaners and don't just stop working never to function again simply because you've forgotten to clean out the filter within a specified time.

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

rick_chasey

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

...they are...

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

...they are...

Not right now with Landlords they aren't.

rick_chasey

How do you know?

TheBigBean

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

...they are...

Not right now with Landlords they aren't.

They will when some landlords default.

Longshot

TheBigBean said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

...they are...

Not right now with Landlords they aren't.

They will when some landlords default.

Bit late then.

TheBigBean

Longshot said:

TheBigBean said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

...they are...

Not right now with Landlords they aren't.

They will when some landlords default.

Bit late then.

No it won't be. They will then negotiate a haircut. Lenders have no desire to become landlords.

Longshot

TheBigBean said:

Longshot said:

TheBigBean said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

I do think landlords need to learn to take the loss.

It's an investment, and when things turn rubbish, people lose money. You run the risk, sometimes the risk will burn you.

Why can't the banks also take some of the hit?

...they are...

Not right now with Landlords they aren't.

They will when some landlords default.

Bit late then.

No it won't be. They will then negotiate a haircut. Lenders have no desire to become landlords.

Haha. If only RBS had taken that view (amongst others) in 2008.

orraloon

Pross said:

... but ultimately all these numbers aren't just statistics, they're all people with friends and relatives who cared for them.

Sorry to read that. I posted Tues eve about a request from an elderly client whose husband is in intensive with the virus plus other infection, to ask if I could go visit to help her out, bit of desperation evident. I messaged back to say I would as soon as sensible / possible but not right now, which she accepts is the right course to take. I fully expect the next contact will be that the husband has gone.

I know this happens all the time, is how life is, but it all seems so concentrated and focused now. Stress everywhere. Not fun.

rick_chasey

Most banks are offering mortgage pauses.

There is absolutely a critical point here about not kicking people out into the streets during this time, and recognising that the government is forcing a lot of people to (hopefully) temporarily lose their jobs.

Landlords need to recognise that. The more you protect people during the shutdown the quicker things get back to normal.

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

Most banks are offering mortgage pauses.

There is absolutely a critical point here about not kicking people out into the streets during this time, and recognising that the government is forcing a lot of people to (hopefully) temporarily lose their jobs.

Landlords need to recognise that. The more you protect people during the shutdown the quicker things get back to normal.

Ahh, you're talking about residential. OK.

rick_chasey

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Most banks are offering mortgage pauses.

There is absolutely a critical point here about not kicking people out into the streets during this time, and recognising that the government is forcing a lot of people to (hopefully) temporarily lose their jobs.

Landlords need to recognise that. The more you protect people during the shutdown the quicker things get back to normal.

Ahh, you're talking about residential. OK.

Are they not doing the same for commercial properties?

If not they ought to.

Longshot

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Most banks are offering mortgage pauses.

There is absolutely a critical point here about not kicking people out into the streets during this time, and recognising that the government is forcing a lot of people to (hopefully) temporarily lose their jobs.

Landlords need to recognise that. The more you protect people during the shutdown the quicker things get back to normal.

Ahh, you're talking about residential. OK.

Are they not doing the same for commercial properties?

If not they ought to.

rick_chasey said:

Longshot said:

rick_chasey said:

Most banks are offering mortgage pauses.

There is absolutely a critical point here about not kicking people out into the streets during this time, and recognising that the government is forcing a lot of people to (hopefully) temporarily lose their jobs.

Landlords need to recognise that. The more you protect people during the shutdown the quicker things get back to normal.

Ahh, you're talking about residential. OK.

Are they not doing the same for commercial properties?

If not they ought to.

Not that I've seen so far. We're in discussion with our lenders but fortunately we're in a position where can cover the payments for the moment as we're geared very low.

There are others in less comfortable positions and are waiting on the response from the banks.

So far, this quarter, we're probably received all the money we're going to see (without some form of action) and that amounts to about 40% of the actual receivable so it's not insignificant. For the record, we're not heavily exposed to retail nor are we dealing with a lot of small businesses.

rick_chasey

No and those stories are very worrying...!

From the bank's perspective they are still trying to work out how deep in the sh!t they are since this is all moving so fast. I suspect you'll see some incredibly ugly write-downs further down the line. This is, as per Draghi, where the gov't needs to set it.

They rightly shut it all down, and so they need to support businesses who are affected, directly or indirectly, by the shutdown. This may very well mean supporting the banks so they can absord more losses; though this is also the nature of their business and their capital requirements should be enough to not bring the bastards down, but this is fairly unprecedented.

briantrumpet

elbowloh said:

I remember reading a Tom Clancy book quite a number of years back and there was some sort of world-wide disaster that set the global economy into meltdown. The crisis was resolved by everyone agreeing to reset the economy back to what existed pre-disaster, as if it never happened, much like a system restore point on your PC.
Bearing in mind, money is really just a human invented concept and in most cases is just virtual and, just as a debating point, why can't we do this?

The same thought has passed through my mind too.

I remember one time being told by a solicitor friend that one morning, to his horror, the client account was in the red - it seems that Barclays had mistakenly sent payment for a house twice over. "No problem", they said, "We'll delete that payment and any record it ever went out". Where there's a will, there's a way...

Longshot

briantrumpet said:

elbowloh said:

I remember reading a Tom Clancy book quite a number of years back and there was some sort of world-wide disaster that set the global economy into meltdown. The crisis was resolved by everyone agreeing to reset the economy back to what existed pre-disaster, as if it never happened, much like a system restore point on your PC.
Bearing in mind, money is really just a human invented concept and in most cases is just virtual and, just as a debating point, why can't we do this?

The same thought has passed through my mind too.

I remember one time being told by a solicitor friend that one morning, to his horror, the client account was in the red - it seems that Barclays had mistakenly sent payment for a house twice over. "No problem", they said, "We'll delete that payment and any record it ever went out". Where there's a will, there's a way...

Just as well!! The repercussions for the solicitor would have been serious.

kingstonian

Sorry to hear that sad news, Pross

rjsterry

Very sorry to hear your sad news, Pross.

morstar

Sorry for your news Pross.

DeVlaeminck

elbowloh said:

I remember reading a Tom Clancy book quite a number of years back and there was some sort of world-wide disaster that set the global economy into meltdown. The crisis was resolved by everyone agreeing to reset the economy back to what existed pre-disaster, as if it never happened, much like a system restore point on your PC.
Bearing in mind, money is really just a human invented concept and in most cases is just virtual and, just as a debating point, why can't we do this?

Also, following on from this crisis, does anyone think that this will result in the UK (and the world) having a bit of a reset of what is valued in our society. Will we suddenly recognise that those who actually add real value to society (e.g. the NHS workers, the food providers, those who provide essential services) will be given greater respect in the future rather than those who just make a lot of money?

I don't think this is big enough to really reset our societal norms. For most people it's an inconvenience followed by a big hit to the economy which will affect some more than others.

Pross

Thanks all, we feared the worst as soon as she was admitted to hospital and had prepared for it and I think we were all aware, herself included, that her health was an issue even before all this.The irony is that my wife's aunt probably picked it up when she had to go into hospital for a day a couple of weeks back to have a blood transfusion due to having a small internal bleed and was looking / feeling far better in the days afterwards until she got Covid. I suspect we're all a bit guilty of forgetting the statistics are real people until it comes close to home.

We now have a nervous 7 days wait for the mother-in-law who has quite a few health issues and was last week in the house with the relative who died (she's been very strict with the self-isolation but for some unknown reason thought that it would be safe to visit as they live very close to each other and were both isolating!)

There's still a huge amount of traffic passing the back of my house and I'm struggling to believe every one of those people is making an essential journey.

pblakeney

Very quiet around my street.
Looks like people are bored of going for walks too.

fenix

Similar situation to Pross. Elderly relative in hospital with Corona now. Housebound so the most likely place he got it was when he had his regular blood transfusion a few weeks back.

I don't think a lot of people will take it seriously until it affects them. And in all likelihood - it will - sooner or later. Fingers crossed for you all Pross.

orraloon

In town getting truck fettled pre MOT which now is not happening next week. Did a minor shopping trawl while waiting, v quiet. Police on streets and mall stopping oldies and giving them the follow the rules or else you will get fined. They did not stop me 😁

kingstonian

Wife went to Sainsburys for a weekly shop earlier. Said it was incredibly quiet on the roads there and back, and the supermarket is operating a policy of limiting the number of people in the store at any 1 time. Shelves well stocked with the exception of just a few things (pasta, pasta sauces were 2 items she mentioned)

Pross

kingstonian said:

Wife went to Sainsburys for a weekly shop earlier. Said it was incredibly quiet on the roads there and back, and the supermarket is operating a policy of limiting the number of people in the store at any 1 time. Shelves well stocked with the exception of just a few things (pasta, pasta sauces were 2 items she mentioned)

Very similar situation for my daughter around here as well. She said people were following the rules in store but 'oldies' were then gathering for a chat on their way out. I guess they know the risks by now and have just decided to accept them. The supermarkets finally seem to be getting on top of things although the local Morrison had a bit of a Draconian policy in place yesterday (3 tins maximum - that's 3 tins in total rather than 3 of a particular item and the same with frozen goods).

Stevo_666

kingstonian said:

Wife went to Sainsburys for a weekly shop earlier. Said it was incredibly quiet on the roads there and back, and the supermarket is operating a policy of limiting the number of people in the store at any 1 time. Shelves well stocked with the exception of just a few things (pasta, pasta sauces were 2 items she mentioned)

Same here. Went to Waitrose yesterday to do a decent sized shop and had to queue for 10 mins to get in - and as we had to keep at least a 2m gap between each other, the bloody queue went right round the car park. Once you were in it was fine and managed to get most things, just needed a spot of evasive action to stay away from the odd dozy shopper.

Stevo_666

orraloon said:

In town getting truck fettled pre MOT which now is not happening next week. Did a minor shopping trawl while waiting, v quiet. Police on streets and mall stopping oldies and giving them the follow the rules or else you will get fined. They did not stop me 😁

I went out i the car yesterday and went the long way to the shop as I needed to make sure the battery won't go flat. Figured I'm not a danger to anyone just driving round in a circle.