The big Coronavirus thread

kingstonian

oblongomaculatus said:

I don't understand why people think wearing a paper face mask is going to protect them. Viruses are tiny, face masks have pores which are visible to the naked eye. I can't find any info on the size of the covid virus, but viruses vary between 20 nanometers and 500 nanometers in size. That's between .00002mm and .0005mm. It's like expecting to stop a grain of sand with a basketball hoop, and that's before you realise that there is a gap around the sides of face masks you can get your finger through.

A friend is a surgeon, we were chatting about this and his view was that the biggest form of protection they provide is by stopping people touching their nose and mouth. They do stop some of the germs that the wearer emits, and some that the wearer would otherwise breathe in, but they certainly aren’t a robust barrier to airborne germs.

kingstonian

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

That article goes on to say that Cummings realised that his views about letting the old just die were actually horrific when the numbers were presented. He then moved to being in favour of locking down, but Boris bottled that.

They've cost lives by waiting. How many, we'll see in 10 days.

Welcome to my enraged world.

The consensus on here is that Boris is a saint and has handled this better than anybody else. He has got every decision spot on and prepared properly.

If you disagree it will because your mind is twisted by your hatred of Boris.

I’m somewhere in between. The guy is certainly not a saint, but he also isn’t an evil tyrant that is only taking decisions based on how he perceives they’ll influence poll ratings.

Very tough job at the moment, much like when George Bush was US President at the time of 9/11.

tailwindhome

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

Full article

DeVlaeminck

kingstongraham said:

That article goes on to say that Cummings realised that his views about letting the old just die were actually horrific when the numbers were presented. He then moved to being in favour of locking down, but Boris bottled that.

They've cost lives by waiting. How many, we'll see in 10 days.

Yes there's no doubt that there was a massive acceleration of restrictions when the Imperial report was published. With hindsight we didn't learn from Italy etc and vital days were lost.

I say with hindsight - I don't think that's an excuse for those whose job it is to advise govt on these things and for those whose job it is to make the decisions - from the outside it's hard to know if Boris was badly advised or if he thought he could ignore the experts or perhaps choose to listen to experts who didn't think such extreme measures were necessary.

coopster_the_1st

Anecdotally I have never seen so many families and people outside walking and cycling. This has to be a good thing for the nations physical and mental health

If the UK implements sensible lockdown and social distancing there could be massive long term benefits for the health of the nation.

- Walking, running, cycling, scootering, etc(anything human powered) should be massively encouraged in coordination with social distancing, with one caveat that if you injury yourself there will be no medical assistance proivided to try to stop people taking risks
- All but essential car journeys to stop
- Reiterate to stop smoking and vaping as this increases your risk of death from C19
- Continue with the current lock down policy

I'm sure this policy will over the longer term save way more lives than C19 will take. The problem is this sort of policy will not be being modelled as only panic measures are being considered. Going down the draconion Italian or Spanish sh1tfit panic shutdown will IMO cause more deaths log term than the above way of going forward

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

That article goes on to say that Cummings realised that his views about letting the old just die were actually horrific when the numbers were presented. He then moved to being in favour of locking down, but Boris bottled that.

They've cost lives by waiting. How many, we'll see in 10 days.

Welcome to my enraged world.

The consensus on here is that Boris is a saint and has handled this better than anybody else. He has got every decision spot on and prepared properly.

If you disagree it will because your mind is twisted by your hatred of Boris.

No it isn't. I have a very low opinion of Johnson but it's not him ignoring the advice on social distancing or panic buying.

mr_goo

The over 70s blithely ignoring advice to isolate and social distance themselves. I've seen so many of them in the shops down here as if it's just any oordinary day.
If this continues then more Draconian measures will be needed or the NHS is going to collapse.

morstar

mr_goo said:

The over 70s blithely ignoring advice to isolate and social distance themselves. I've seen so many of them in the shops down here as if it's just any oordinary day.
If this continues then more Draconian measures will be needed or the NHS is going to collapse.

But they’re being forced to shop in many cases. My dad is 80+ and had to go to the shop yesterday to get milk and to also try and understand what happened to their delivery that never turned up after 2 hours of phone calls got nowhere.
Anybody who hasn’t adapted to technology or isn’t in a position to meet minimum online spend are going to struggle with not shopping.
Some of those who are IT savvy may not be able to get a delivery slot.
I’m in a vulnerable group by virtue of asthma but we have no food being delivered until next Saturday. Two weeks after ordering. I am shopping regularly in order to keep food in the table. Not happy about it but unavoidable.

pblakeney

I am confused by the use of the word "if" in any discussions on what is going to happen.
If you want to know what is going to happen in the next one to two weeks then simply look at the news today from Italy, Spain and France.
It doesn't take a genius to see that we are following them.

diamonddog

Spain now on extended lockdown until 12th April. If the UK government do not make isolation mandatory the UK will be like Italy in a very short time as all the models I have seen predict.

briantrumpet

I am seeing the same 'bubble' effect on Facebook and amongst my near neighbours as during Brexit and the GE - all the people I know appear to be taking this seriously, and yet there appears to be a large proportion of the population who are simply ignoring the news coming out of Italy and France, and pretending everything's fine... "Oh, there have only been 40 cases in Devon...", well, yes, but it was only four weeks ago that there were only 40 cases in the whole of Italy, supposedly. It ain't going to end well.

diamonddog

mr_goo said:

The over 70s blithely ignoring advice to isolate and social distance themselves. I've seen so many of them in the shops down here as if it's just any oordinary day.
If this continues then more Draconian measures will be needed or the NHS is going to collapse.

As are a lot of younger people it is not only the over 70’s who can get the virus or am I missing something. The only way people will stop ignoring advice is if more Draconian measures are brought in by the U.K. government.

tailwindhome

coopster_the_1st said:

Anecdotally I have never seen so many families and people outside walking and cycling. This has to be a good thing for the nations physical and mental health

If the UK implements sensible lockdown and social distancing there could be massive long term benefits for the health of the nation.

- Walking, running, cycling, scootering, etc(anything human powered) should be massively encouraged in coordination with social distancing, with one caveat that if you injury yourself there will be no medical assistance proivided to try to stop people taking risks
- All but essential car journeys to stop
- Reiterate to stop smoking and vaping as this increases your risk of death from C19
- Continue with the current lock down policy

I'm sure this policy will over the longer term save way more lives than C19 will take. The problem is this sort of policy will not be being modelled as only panic measures are being considered. Going down the draconion Italian or Spanish sh1tfit panic shutdown will IMO cause more deaths log term than the above way of going forward

Presumably the virus knows it's in Old Blighty and will do the right thing.

coopster_the_1st

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Anecdotally I have never seen so many families and people outside walking and cycling. This has to be a good thing for the nations physical and mental health

If the UK implements sensible lockdown and social distancing there could be massive long term benefits for the health of the nation.

- Walking, running, cycling, scootering, etc(anything human powered) should be massively encouraged in coordination with social distancing, with one caveat that if you injury yourself there will be no medical assistance proivided to try to stop people taking risks
- All but essential car journeys to stop
- Reiterate to stop smoking and vaping as this increases your risk of death from C19
- Continue with the current lock down policy

I'm sure this policy will over the longer term save way more lives than C19 will take. The problem is this sort of policy will not be being modelled as only panic measures are being considered. Going down the draconion Italian or Spanish sh1tfit panic shutdown will IMO cause more deaths log term than the above way of going forward

Presumably the virus knows it's in Old Blighty and will do the right thing.

Making short term panic decisions(ala Italy & Spain) are very likely to be more harmful over the longer term.

There is only so much you can do to divert the course of mother nature

morstar

Surely it is in everyone’s interest to get on top of food distribution by delivery. Shops are the only place I am socially mixing and that must be the case for many.
If food could be dropped on my doorstep, I would be far less exposed as either a carrier or recipient.
Better for me, the shop staff and the other shoppers.

diamonddog

The decisions made in Spain and Italy are not short term or panic, Spain is now a month lockdown and could be extended.
So far the UK has in my opinion failed to heed the warnings from professionals in other countries that are having the worst of it and some of the ones containing it to a certain extent.

coopster_the_1st

diamonddog said:

They are not short term, Spain is now a month lockdown and could be extended.
So far the UK has in my opinion failed to heed the warnings from professionals in other countries that are having the worst of it and who are some of the ones containing it to a certain extent.

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

100k+ are likely to die from C19 in the UK over the next couple of year. Accepting this will happen is the only way we can move forward and acheive the best outcome for all 65m of us from this sh!t situation

diamonddog

coopster_the_1st said:

diamonddog said:

They are not short term, Spain is now a month lockdown and could be extended.
So far the UK has in my opinion failed to heed the warnings from professionals in other countries that are having the worst of it and who are some of the ones containing it to a certain extent.

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

100k+ are likely to die from C19 in the UK over the next couple of year. Accepting this will happen is the only way we can move forward and acheive the best outcome for all 65m of us from this sh!t situation

The U.K. is not exempt from how this virus spreads and unless the people ignoring social distancing and isolating advice are not made to do it the virus will spread exponentially as it has done elsewhere and the UK doing nothing more stringent will put them in a worse state than Italy. Obviously we are not going to agree on this so I will so no more.

surrey_commuter

pblakeney said:

I am confused by the use of the word "if" in any discussions on what is going to happen.
If you want to know what is going to happen in the next one to two weeks then simply look at the news today from Italy, Spain and France.
It doesn't take a genius to see that we are following them.

The general consensus on this thread is that there is nothing to be learnt from other countries and that poor old Boris is working is a bubble supported only by case if models.

If you disagree it is because of personal animosity, though I suspect patriotism will rear it’s ugly head.

tailwindhome

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

coopster_the_1st

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

capt_slog

We went out this morning for a walk.

The youngest Slog works in a private school, and they have basically been taken over by the government (his words), to provide child care for key staff. Because of this, he didn't want to meet up with his mum indoors, so we decided that we could meet up in the local fields and keep our distances.

We met a few others doing the same, and each time we exchanged pleasantries whilst giving each other a wide berth.,

Apart from one couple. These seemed to be cross that we were there on 'their' footpath, and when I said good morning to them, she looked at me as if the sound waves could carry a virus and didn't reply.

tailwindhome

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

So it the UK death rate going to go up?

coopster_the_1st

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

So it the UK death rate going to go up?

I'm not going to answer your further question(s) any more until you answer mine.

I've put them in bold to help you

pblakeney

surrey_commuter said:

If you disagree it is because of personal animosity, though I suspect patriotism will rear it’s ugly head.

I think it has more to do with being in deluded denial.
Lockdown is coming. Deal with it.
Oh, and what you said.

tailwindhome

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

So it the UK death rate going to go up?

I'm not going to answer your further question(s) any more until you answer mine.

I've put them in bold to help you

I don't accept that the Spanish will on mass go f*ck this lockdown.

coopster_the_1st

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

So it the UK death rate going to go up?

I'm not going to answer your further question(s) any more until you answer mine.

I've put them in bold to help you

I don't accept that the Spanish will on mass go f*ck this lockdown.

I thought you were in denial and you've just proved it.

The population of Spain is 46.5m. What percentage of that would be needed to overrun their current lockdown? Under 5% is 2m people and it would not take much for social media to mobilise this many people and overrun the state. I don't think the Spanish lockdown can last beyond June.

diamonddog

The biggest problem we have had in Spain re ignoring advice is actually from British people not grasping the gravity of the situation and moronic chavs in Benidorm boozing etc.
As a nation the Spanish are far more laid back as a whole and accept this as something that needs to be done so let’s get on with it. As far as I can see there is overall praise here for the Spanish PM for taking these hard decisions on lockdown.

tailwindhome

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

So it the UK death rate going to go up?

I'm not going to answer your further question(s) any more until you answer mine.

I've put them in bold to help you

I don't accept that the Spanish will on mass go f*ck this lockdown.

I thought you were in denial and you've just proved it.

The population of Spain is 46.5m. What percentage of that would be needed to overrun their current lockdown? Under 5% is 2m people and it would not take much for social media to mobilise this many people and overrun the state. I don't think the Spanish lockdown can last beyond June.

What is it you think I'm in denial of?

coopster_the_1st

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

tailwindhome said:

coopster_the_1st said:

The Spanish action was a panic decision as they had lost control of the virus on the mainland and it was the only option they had. They have no plan how to unwind this action taken and are now in a state of kicking the can further down the road.

In what sense does the UK have control over the virus?

Why are the options in Spain the only options for Spain?

The UK does not yet have too many cases for its health system to manage. It has been walking a tightrope by implementing measures when they are required. Shutting down open spaces where people are sensibly social distancing from each other will be hugely negative to everyone in the UK.

Spain had to take some sort of action but all it has done has increased the amount of time their whole population are going to feel pain from this.

What will happen when in x months the Spanish on mass go f*ck this lockdown and revolt against what the government wants them to do?
How long do you think x is(in months)?

The same situation and questions apply to the Italians.

So it the UK death rate going to go up?

I'm not going to answer your further question(s) any more until you answer mine.

I've put them in bold to help you

I don't accept that the Spanish will on mass go f*ck this lockdown.

I thought you were in denial and you've just proved it.

The population of Spain is 46.5m. What percentage of that would be needed to overrun their current lockdown? Under 5% is 2m people and it would not take much for social media to mobilise this many people and overrun the state. I don't think the Spanish lockdown can last beyond June.

What is it you think I'm in denial of?

How society will react to being locked down for more than a couple of months