The big Coronavirus thread

tailwindhome

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

surrey_commuter

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

tailwindhome

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

You probably wouldn't even need the injections

kingstongraham

Interesting:

https://twitter.com/benthompson/status/1252616726845349894

I like his article, it's suggesting a different trade-off. Don't know how realistic it would be in the UK, but I'd rather the restaurants were open and I didn't have to worry about people dying. https://stratechery.com/2020/compaq-and-coronavirus/

john80

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

Stevo_666

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

Also the interesting part of the article on Germany which some may have 'missed' said the following:

"Germany does not yet have the surveillance structure in place for Korean-style contract tracing.

The government says the necessary smartphone app will not be available for another month. It is an open question whether East Asian methods can ever work in any case under German data protection laws. There is a national allergy to Big Brother measures – commendable at most times – linked to the trauma of the 1930s and the East German Stasi.

The fact that Germany’s case fatality death rate is 3.1pc (according to the Robert Koch Institute) suggests that it is missing at least two-third of cases. Its testing may be good by UK or French standards but it is still not good enough to manage a 1.0 RO rate in a stable fashion."

Not quite the model country after all then...and if Germany can't do it, whats the chance of of other countries succeeding with test and trace as their main weapon against the virus?

Although as I've said before, we'll have to wait and see how they get on.

john80

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

tailwindhome said:

Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.

Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.

One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.

In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.

You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.

And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.

What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.

We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.

The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.

So you think the economy can be opened up so people can go to pubs and nightclubs, and also manage the lockdown to keep the NHS out of crisis? It sounds great, but I don't understand how. You remember the last few weeks, right?

The Swedish model is not that so why would i be proposing that. Currently we have shut down club sailing in the UK. The members could drive to the venue, get changed in the carpark, race their own individuals boats and the jog off home whilst social distancing. We are stopping this and the health and social benefits and for what exactly. Restaurants being open with table service and 5ft spacing does npt seem a bad way of assisting some of our service sector in a few weeks time. Protect the old or vulnerable and let the rest get on with it and give them good social distancing advice.

rick_chasey

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

I don’t think you’ve really understood what I’ve proposed.

I have never said a lockdown isn’t necessary.

It’s about when you lockdown. Obviously earlier lock downs and higher testing abilities result in earlier listings of lock downs etc.

It is a long term flexible strategy that flexes restrictions depending on death rates.

It’s just the death rates should be an order of magnitude lower than what the UK is currently experiencing.

Stevo_666

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia said:

Plus (and it's a big plus) my wife can't waste money in cafes and shops,

A very good point Ugo and worthy of a mention in the 'Looking on the bright side' thread, as this will benefit many of us

kingstongraham

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

john80 said:

tailwindhome said:

Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.

Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.

One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.

In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.

You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.

And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.

What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.

We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.

The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.

So you think the economy can be opened up so people can go to pubs and nightclubs, and also manage the lockdown to keep the NHS out of crisis? It sounds great, but I don't understand how. You remember the last few weeks, right?

The Swedish model is not that so why would i be proposing that. Currently we have shut down club sailing in the UK. The members could drive to the venue, get changed in the carpark, race their own individuals boats and the jog off home whilst social distancing. We are stopping this and the health and social benefits and for what exactly. Restaurants being open with table service and 5ft spacing does npt seem a bad way of assisting some of our service sector in a few weeks time. Protect the old or vulnerable and let the rest get on with it and give them good social distancing advice.

Must have misunderstood when you said "Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. "

ugo.santalucia

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Plus (and it's a big plus) my wife can't waste money in cafes and shops,

A very good point Ugo and worthy of a mention in the 'Looking on the bright side' thread, as this will benefit many of us

Immensely... it's the first time in years that I get to the end of the month with some money in my account I don't know what to do with...
I was going to give it to charity, but wife thinks I should give it to her daughter instead... who will probably spend it in a new phone or something....

coopster_the_1st

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

I'm reasonably encouraged about this Oxford led vaccine if what I heard is correct and it does sound the best option so far.

The vaccine was originally developed for MERS so would have been in development for years. As that is another Coronavirus they have simply reworked it for C19. Hence it is ready to go into human trials so swiftly.

I think it would be very risky though to base government policy on this virus working as that could set us back many months

tailwindhome

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

The death count in Singapore stands at 11

TheBigBean

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

TheBigBean

tailwindhome said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

The death count in Singapore stands at 11

It wasn't long ago that Europe had a similar death count.

ddraver

Presumably you'd ve had to not have had the bug first tho...

tailwindhome

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

The death count in Singapore stands at 11

It wasn't long ago that Europe had a similar death count.

True, but would you not rather be in their position than ours?

Pross

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm tempted by the Bristol one. Might take a look at the small print!

surrey_commuter

ddraver said:

Presumably you'd ve had to not have had the bug first tho...

So another plus side is you get tested.

Half the volunteers are probably care home workers

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm tempted by the Bristol one. Might take a look at the small print!

Group of us at work seriously discussed this as you had the extra benefit of the hospitals still being empty.

If it did go wrong at least you would not have to listen to people telling you that they told you so.

rick_chasey

‪

https://twitter.com/cirian75/status/1252642774282878976/video/1

‬

rick_chasey

TheBigBean

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

The death count in Singapore stands at 11

It wasn't long ago that Europe had a similar death count.

True, but would you not rather be in their position than ours?

Of course. From a selfish point of view, Singapore has only been in lock down for one week or so, whereas I forget how many weeks it has been here.

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Plus (and it's a big plus) my wife can't waste money in cafes and shops,

A very good point Ugo and worthy of a mention in the 'Looking on the bright side' thread, as this will benefit many of us

Immensely... it's the first time in years that I get to the end of the month with some money in my account I don't know what to do with...
I was going to give it to charity, but wife thinks I should give it to her daughter instead... who will probably spend it in a new phone or something....

Easy come easy go...my two just managed to spend £150 at Tesco without buying any booze. I didn't know that was actually possible.

Stevo_666

tailwindhome said:

john80 said:

rick_chasey said:

john80 said:

Stevo_666 said:

And another one on Singapore:

"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.

The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.

Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.

This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.

In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."

Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.

However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.

"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.

The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.

The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.

Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.

The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.

Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".

He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.

"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."

The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."

News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.

I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.

The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.

You proposed a test and trace approach as apparently this would reduce impact. Singapore has done this and initially had success in your eyes controlling deaths. Dething for which you criticised the UK approach repeatedly. They are just announcing a significant lockdown period with resulting economic impacts. What was the win other than some deaths not being brought forward.

The death count in Singapore stands at 11

See where they are in a few weeks time (and factor in the point that their population is less than 10% of the UK).

Stevo_666

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

I'm reasonably encouraged about this Oxford led vaccine if what I heard is correct and it does sound the best option so far.

The vaccine was originally developed for MERS so would have been in development for years. As that is another Coronavirus they have simply reworked it for C19. Hence it is ready to go into human trials so swiftly.

I think it would be very risky though to base government policy on this virus working as that could set us back many months

Well quite - don't count your chickens etc. But this is encouraging as it a vaccine is the real endgame and this has not taken long to get to this stage - probably for the reasons you gave. Bigger timing challenge will be making sure it works and is safe.

And if that one fails, there are 80 or so others on the go: there should be a reasonable probability that one sticks. Another bonus for this one is that it is a UK developed vaccine.

pangolin

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm tempted by the Bristol one. Might take a look at the small print!

£235 here as well. You have to live fairly centrally, I'm too far out.

pblakeney

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

Pross

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

I assume the idea is to filter out people doing it for financial gain. No doubt there's some psychology in getting the right volunteers for a meaningful sample.