The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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Risk of being admitted to ICU:ugo.santalucia said:Contracting a virus is not necessarily a black or white situation... yes, chances of dying are small, but chances of being quite sick for quite some time are actually pretty significant, as our brave PM clearly demonstrates.
Why would anyone want to put themselves through the risk of getting a disease that might go on for 2-3 weeks and leave you tired and breathless maybe for another 2-3 weeks after that... it would be a fairly stupid thing to do... and the chances might be as high as 10%.
20-29 0.03%(1 in 3,333)
30-39 0.09%(1 in 1,111)
40-49 0.24%(1 in 416)
50-59 0.68%(1 in 147)
60-69 1.45%(1 in 69)0 -
Risk of Hospitalisation
20-29 0.2%(1 in 500)
30-39 0.3%(1 in 333)
40-49 0.8%(1 in 125)
50-59 1.9%(1 in 53)
60-69 3.4%(1 in 30)0 -
It doesn't have to end up in ICU... whilst I am having a lovely time cycling in good weather, a person I know has been fairly ill for over a week and now he feels quite fatigued and is probably going to have to spend quite some time off the bike... all in all, it might be a month before he is back to being himself... that without ever having to be admitted to hospital.coopster_the_1st said:
Risk of being admitted to ICU:ugo.santalucia said:Contracting a virus is not necessarily a black or white situation... yes, chances of dying are small, but chances of being quite sick for quite some time are actually pretty significant, as our brave PM clearly demonstrates.
Why would anyone want to put themselves through the risk of getting a disease that might go on for 2-3 weeks and leave you tired and breathless maybe for another 2-3 weeks after that... it would be a fairly stupid thing to do... and the chances might be as high as 10%.
20-29 0.03%(1 in 3,333)
30-39 0.09%(1 in 1,111)
40-49 0.24%(1 in 416)
50-59 0.68%(1 in 147)
60-69 1.45%(1 in 69)
I appreciate it's not dramatic and it won't make the headlines, but it's still a month of somebody's life spent being fairly sick... I'd rather avoid that altogether if possibleleft the forum March 20230 -
News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.Stevo_666 said:And another one on Singapore:
"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.
The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.
Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.
This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.
In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."
Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.
However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.
"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.
The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.
The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.
Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.
The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.
Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".
He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.
"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."
The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."1 -
I like riding my bike. Getting a disease that could permanently impair my lung function isn't attractive to me.ugo.santalucia said:Contracting a virus is not necessarily a black or white situation... yes, chances of dying are small, but chances of being quite sick for quite some time are actually pretty significant, as our brave PM clearly demonstrates.
Why would anyone want to put themselves through the risk of getting a disease that might go on for 2-3 weeks and leave you tired and breathless maybe for another 2-3 weeks after that... it would be a fairly stupid thing to do... and the chances might be as high as 10%.0 -
The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.kingstongraham said:
What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.john80 said:
And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.kingstongraham said:
You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.john80 said:
Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.tailwindhome said:Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.
One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.
In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.
We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.0 -
Pandemic deaths hurt economics, not public health interventions.john80 said:
The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.kingstongraham said:
What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.john80 said:
And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.kingstongraham said:
You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.john80 said:
Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.tailwindhome said:Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.
One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.
In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.
We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.
This is a point that is entirely lost in this debate.0 -
I don't understand your point, as he is doing exactly what I have been proposing.john80 said:
News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.Stevo_666 said:And another one on Singapore:
"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.
The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.
Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.
This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.
In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."
Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.
However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.
"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.
The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.
The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.
Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.
The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.
Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".
He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.
"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."
The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."
The economy won't suddenly fire up again whilst people are dying in their thousands. You do know that, right? Lockdown or not, if you have loads of people dying, the economy is ruined regardless.
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No, it's not. Both of these things hurt the economy. It also seems to have escaped your notice that if you hurt the economy there's a feedback to public health.rick_chasey said:
Pandemic deaths hurt economics, not public health interventions.john80 said:
The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.kingstongraham said:
What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.john80 said:
And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.kingstongraham said:
You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.john80 said:
Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.tailwindhome said:Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.
One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.
In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.
We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.
This is a point that is entirely lost in this debate.1 -
Your own health is your biggest asset. Jeopardising it, so that you can earn money so that your money can look after yourself, if/when you get sick is a bit of a perverse way of going about thingsleft the forum March 20230
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Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.0
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So you think the economy can be opened up so people can go to pubs and nightclubs, and also manage the lockdown to keep the NHS out of crisis? It sounds great, but I don't understand how. You remember the last few weeks, right?john80 said:
The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.kingstongraham said:
What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.john80 said:
And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.kingstongraham said:
You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.john80 said:
Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.tailwindhome said:Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.
One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.
In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.
We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.0 -
Argh this is going around in circles. Of course I understand that; you know that my argument is that being able to stay on top of the virus with early lock downs, low levels of infections to allow for localised, nuanced, specific restrictions is the ideal, with shorter durations of total lockdowns.First.Aspect said:
No, it's not. Both of these things hurt the economy. It also seems to have escaped your notice that if you hurt the economy there's a feedback to public health.0 -
Not if you don't have to... I appreciate if you work in the NHS you'll probably get immune, one way or another, but if you don't, then it seems pointless to risk your own health, so that the national army of obese diabetics can continue to enjoy the benefits of a rich economy... happy to help at any stage, but not risking my health, thank you.TheBigBean said:Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.
left the forum March 20230 -
The virus doesn't go away when lockdown ends. It's here to stay until some miracle vaccine arrives, so in the meantime we need to accept we are all going to live with various levels of restrictions in our lives henceforth.0
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The UK has the opposite psychology regarding C19. I suspect reversing the UK's position will be harder than where Germany is atStevo_666 said:It seems that the first tentative steps to end Germany’s lockdown has caused a “messaging” problem, something that the behavioural nudge unit in Downing Street will be watching closely. People are acting as if the virus has been defeated. This psychological shift may be hard to reverse.
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You had it yet?coopster_the_1st said:
The UK has the opposite psychology regarding C19. I suspect reversing the UK's position will be harder than where Germany is atStevo_666 said:It seems that the first tentative steps to end Germany’s lockdown has caused a “messaging” problem, something that the behavioural nudge unit in Downing Street will be watching closely. People are acting as if the virus has been defeated. This psychological shift may be hard to reverse.
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Your approach has two negatives:ugo.santalucia said:
It doesn't have to end up in ICU... whilst I am having a lovely time cycling in good weather, a person I know has been fairly ill for over a week and now he feels quite fatigued and is probably going to have to spend quite some time off the bike... all in all, it might be a month before he is back to being himself... that without ever having to be admitted to hospital.coopster_the_1st said:
Risk of being admitted to ICU:ugo.santalucia said:Contracting a virus is not necessarily a black or white situation... yes, chances of dying are small, but chances of being quite sick for quite some time are actually pretty significant, as our brave PM clearly demonstrates.
Why would anyone want to put themselves through the risk of getting a disease that might go on for 2-3 weeks and leave you tired and breathless maybe for another 2-3 weeks after that... it would be a fairly stupid thing to do... and the chances might be as high as 10%.
20-29 0.03%(1 in 3,333)
30-39 0.09%(1 in 1,111)
40-49 0.24%(1 in 416)
50-59 0.68%(1 in 147)
60-69 1.45%(1 in 69)
I appreciate it's not dramatic and it won't make the headlines, but it's still a month of somebody's life spent being fairly sick... I'd rather avoid that altogether if possible
- It lenghtens how long this will last. The fewer who get the virus the longer we have to live in this current state and thus the worse the economic damage.
- The more healthy people who shield themselves from getting the virus increases the risk to the frail and vulnerable getting the virus. It also lenghtens the time these people have to stay shielded and isolated.
In effect yours and others selfishness will kill more vulnerable and old people either from the virus itself or from the resulting economic damage, possibly both!0 -
No idea. I have at least a 50% chance of being asymptomatic or symptoms being so mild I would not notice it with my current hayfever.kingstongraham said:
You had it yet?coopster_the_1st said:
The UK has the opposite psychology regarding C19. I suspect reversing the UK's position will be harder than where Germany is atStevo_666 said:It seems that the first tentative steps to end Germany’s lockdown has caused a “messaging” problem, something that the behavioural nudge unit in Downing Street will be watching closely. People are acting as if the virus has been defeated. This psychological shift may be hard to reverse.
Statiscally, probably not though, if less than 10% of the population have had it0 -
It feels weird being lectured about not being selfish and avoiding economic damage by you.
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Go down to your local corona hospital on your bike, get one of the infected lot to cough on you, go cycle home.coopster_the_1st said:
No idea. I have at least a 50% chance of being asymptomatic or symptoms being so mild I would not notice it with my current hayfever.kingstongraham said:
You had it yet?coopster_the_1st said:
The UK has the opposite psychology regarding C19. I suspect reversing the UK's position will be harder than where Germany is atStevo_666 said:It seems that the first tentative steps to end Germany’s lockdown has caused a “messaging” problem, something that the behavioural nudge unit in Downing Street will be watching closely. People are acting as if the virus has been defeated. This psychological shift may be hard to reverse.
Statiscally, probably not though, if less than 10% of the population have had it
Put your money where your mouth is.0 -
Then so be it...coopster_the_1st said:
In effect yours and others selfishness will kill more vulnerable and old people either from the virus itself or from the resulting economic damage, possibly both!
I spent my entire life trying to be healthy... I chose a line of work that paid less but allowed me a work/life balance, I don't smoke, I no longer drink, I have a BMI of 22, resting heart rate of 46... I am closing in at 50 yo and I've never taken medications... I don't even take ibuprofen. Health has always been my number one priority.
Obviously this view is not shared, I just have to look at my neighbours' recycling bin to see that they live a very different lifestyle and have very different priorities.
Now, you tell me why I should risk my health so that others who don't care about their own can stay alive.
It's probably a selfish way to go about things, but remember I have never needed and never asked. The NHS is a great thing, but I'd rather not need it.
I am happy to contribute with money or time, not with my health though... no way... you go get Covid-19 and let me know how you got on, I'll pass on the opportunity
left the forum March 20231 -
Yeah, your isolationist approach, restrictions on movement and acceptance of destructions of our freedoms makes even the most extreme Brexiteers look like archangelskingstongraham said:It feels weird being lectured about not being selfish and avoiding economic damage by you.
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Anyway, UK numbers up again today, the regular Tuesday rise quite large this week. 823 more deaths.0
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We'll understand within 6 weeks how much of a success the Swedish approach is.john80 said:
The point is if you cant make test and trace work to bring infections below 1 which most reasonable people would strongly suggest you cant then what is the benefit. You are still decimating your economy with lockdown measures above social distancing and for what. Manage your lockdown to keep the NHS not in crisis and carry on Swedish style. I think we are at the point we could be closer to Swedens terms than that of the UKs current situation.kingstongraham said:
What happens without test and trace? Not better I'd say. Loads of people in that pub probably get it, pass it to loads of people each, etc etc.john80 said:
And this is the irony of those saying that being hard on tracing and testing will allow us to get back economically quicker. Your economy is going nowhere if you cant do any of those things. Especially given a lot of the economy is service sector. If you cant manage the logisitcs of trace and test in a normal working society then what literally is the point of advocating the approach.kingstongraham said:
You're absolutely right, those venues probably shouldn't be allowed to open.john80 said:
Man goes to a bar of 400 people on friday night after a day at work on a call centre open plan office of 200 on that floor using london tube system. On saturday he goes to lunch at a pub then a concert at the Albert hall the a nightclub of 400 people. On Sunday he takes it easy and stays in the house bit starts to feel unwell so calls 111. They now have to track and trace all the people that he might have come into contact with so that they can self isolate for 7 days just in case with some form of testing in the week to release them.tailwindhome said:Yet to hear a plan for reducing the spread of the infection after a lock down is lifted that doesn't involve testing and tracing.
One guy has forced hundreds out of work and into self isolation. You are in charge of tracing all those he had contact with how do you do it. Call centre will be able to give you a list of staff bit will be unhappy their entire staff are not showing up on Monday. Pub maybe you can check their electronic payments and CCTV which wont get you everyone and is massively time consuming. Albert hall might have good ticket records. Nightclub who knows. Tube maybe can use the oystercard details and a masive logistical effort to see who might have went on the carriage at the same time or later.
In summary you are literally endlessly chasing your tail with this plan. Am i tje only one who sees the issue with testing and tracing. This is before we look at the situation where a large number of people may not show any symptoms and therefore maybe are not happy to have their freedom curtailed and income hammered.
We aren't going back to normal. Grasp that.
The issue for the UK now is that unwinding to get to where Sweden are, mostly psychological. The media, who now run the CSO/CMO decision process, have created a position that they believe they can suppress this virus out of existence
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ugo.santalucia said:
Then so be it...coopster_the_1st said:
In effect yours and others selfishness will kill more vulnerable and old people either from the virus itself or from the resulting economic damage, possibly both!
I spent my entire life trying to be healthy... I chose a line of work that paid less but allowed me a work/life balance, I don't smoke, I no longer drink, I have a BMI of 22, resting heart rate of 46... I am closing in at 50 yo and I've never taken medications... I don't even take ibuprofen. Health has always been my number one priority.
Obviously this view is not shared, I just have to look at my neighbours' recycling bin to see that they live a very different lifestyle and have very different priorities.
Now, you tell me why I should risk my health so that others who don't care about their own can stay alive.
It's probably a selfish way to go about things, but remember I have never needed and never asked. The NHS is a great thing, but I'd rather not need it.
I am happy to contribute with money or time, not with my health though... no way... you go get Covid-19 and let me know how you got on, I'll pass on the opportunity
That's fair, and a fair amount of what you wrote aligns to my situation too.
The big question in all of this is for how long can or should our liberties be curtailed. For those of us who are fit and healthy, should we be confined to home for another week, another month, or six months, or longer? That's not just a purely economic discussion, for many of the population it will over time become a mental health discussion too.0 -
I don't mind, I am enjoying the lockdown. Gives me a lot of time to do things I normally don't have time to do... I can eat better food at home than I can at work... weather is great, I can go for structured training rides every day, as opposed to making do with a scrappy commute...kingstonian said:ugo.santalucia said:
Then so be it...coopster_the_1st said:
In effect yours and others selfishness will kill more vulnerable and old people either from the virus itself or from the resulting economic damage, possibly both!
I spent my entire life trying to be healthy... I chose a line of work that paid less but allowed me a work/life balance, I don't smoke, I no longer drink, I have a BMI of 22, resting heart rate of 46... I am closing in at 50 yo and I've never taken medications... I don't even take ibuprofen. Health has always been my number one priority.
Obviously this view is not shared, I just have to look at my neighbours' recycling bin to see that they live a very different lifestyle and have very different priorities.
Now, you tell me why I should risk my health so that others who don't care about their own can stay alive.
It's probably a selfish way to go about things, but remember I have never needed and never asked. The NHS is a great thing, but I'd rather not need it.
I am happy to contribute with money or time, not with my health though... no way... you go get Covid-19 and let me know how you got on, I'll pass on the opportunity
That's fair, and a fair amount of what you wrote aligns to my situation too.
The big question in all of this is for how long can or should our liberties be curtailed. For those of us who are fit and healthy, should we be confined to home for another week, another month, or six months, or longer? That's not just a purely economic discussion, for many of the population it will over time become a mental health discussion too.
Plus (and it's a big plus) my wife can't waste money in cafes and shops, she is instead busy sewing scrubs for the NHS... what's not to like?left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia said:
I don't mind, I am enjoying the lockdown. Gives me a lot of time to do things I normally don't have time to do... I can eat better food at home than I can at work... weather is great, I can go for structured training rides every day, as opposed to making do with a scrappy commute...kingstonian said:ugo.santalucia said:
Then so be it...coopster_the_1st said:
In effect yours and others selfishness will kill more vulnerable and old people either from the virus itself or from the resulting economic damage, possibly both!
I spent my entire life trying to be healthy... I chose a line of work that paid less but allowed me a work/life balance, I don't smoke, I no longer drink, I have a BMI of 22, resting heart rate of 46... I am closing in at 50 yo and I've never taken medications... I don't even take ibuprofen. Health has always been my number one priority.
Obviously this view is not shared, I just have to look at my neighbours' recycling bin to see that they live a very different lifestyle and have very different priorities.
Now, you tell me why I should risk my health so that others who don't care about their own can stay alive.
It's probably a selfish way to go about things, but remember I have never needed and never asked. The NHS is a great thing, but I'd rather not need it.
I am happy to contribute with money or time, not with my health though... no way... you go get Covid-19 and let me know how you got on, I'll pass on the opportunity
That's fair, and a fair amount of what you wrote aligns to my situation too.
The big question in all of this is for how long can or should our liberties be curtailed. For those of us who are fit and healthy, should we be confined to home for another week, another month, or six months, or longer? That's not just a purely economic discussion, for many of the population it will over time become a mental health discussion too.
Plus (and it's a big plus) my wife can't waste money in cafes and shops, she is instead busy sewing scrubs for the NHS... what's not to like?
haha, sounds like you'd like a 12 month lockdown then !!!0 -
Maybe not 12 months, winter in lockdown is probably bleak, but if it lasts until September, I don't have a huge issue, as long as I can go out for exercise...kingstonian said:ugo.santalucia said:
I don't mind, I am enjoying the lockdown. Gives me a lot of time to do things I normally don't have time to do... I can eat better food at home than I can at work... weather is great, I can go for structured training rides every day, as opposed to making do with a scrappy commute...kingstonian said:ugo.santalucia said:
Then so be it...coopster_the_1st said:
In effect yours and others selfishness will kill more vulnerable and old people either from the virus itself or from the resulting economic damage, possibly both!
I spent my entire life trying to be healthy... I chose a line of work that paid less but allowed me a work/life balance, I don't smoke, I no longer drink, I have a BMI of 22, resting heart rate of 46... I am closing in at 50 yo and I've never taken medications... I don't even take ibuprofen. Health has always been my number one priority.
Obviously this view is not shared, I just have to look at my neighbours' recycling bin to see that they live a very different lifestyle and have very different priorities.
Now, you tell me why I should risk my health so that others who don't care about their own can stay alive.
It's probably a selfish way to go about things, but remember I have never needed and never asked. The NHS is a great thing, but I'd rather not need it.
I am happy to contribute with money or time, not with my health though... no way... you go get Covid-19 and let me know how you got on, I'll pass on the opportunity
That's fair, and a fair amount of what you wrote aligns to my situation too.
The big question in all of this is for how long can or should our liberties be curtailed. For those of us who are fit and healthy, should we be confined to home for another week, another month, or six months, or longer? That's not just a purely economic discussion, for many of the population it will over time become a mental health discussion too.
Plus (and it's a big plus) my wife can't waste money in cafes and shops, she is instead busy sewing scrubs for the NHS... what's not to like?
haha, sounds like you'd like a 12 month lockdown then !!!
If it continues through the autumn and winter, then there might be problems at work and in the long run that could result in redundancies, but it won't last that long, because we can't afford to as a society.
Hopefully we won't be allowed to fly around the word though, that would relieve the huge Christmas with the family pressure...left the forum March 20230 -
I think the country being decimated would be cause for a muted celebrationjohn80 said:
News flash they wont be beating anything until a vaccine is available. Wonder when people will realise all these shining example of countries with harsh lockdowns are not much better off. Heres hoping Sweden hold their nerve and their scientists are right. Poor old Rick might have take a climb down on all his should have been harder earlier and test test test craic. Who is for lockdown for the next 12 months and the complete decimation of the economy. Yeah.Stevo_666 said:And another one on Singapore:
"Singapore is to close schools and all but the most essential workplaces for a month, in a raft of stricter measures to limit a second wave of coronavirus cases.
The city state of 5.7 million has been held up as a model for the rest of the world after it successfully fought back the virus in the first few months of this year through aggressive testing measures and intensive tracing of carriers.
Singapore's contact-tracing smartphone app helped it minimise the spread of coronavirus, but the city state has now reported a number of new cases CREDIT: Catherine Lai/AFP
But it has struggled to keep out a fresh wave of coronavirus cases, many of them imported through overseas arrivals from virus hotspots in Europe and the US.
This week, infections topped 1,000, and on Friday, a fifth death was reported.
In a speech to its citizens, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said: "We have decided that instead of tightening incrementally over the next few weeks, we should make a decisive move now, to pre-empt escalating infections."
Food establishments, markets and supermarkets, clinics, hospitals, utilities, transport and key banking services will remain open.
However, schools and universities will switch to full home-based learning, and Mr Lee urged his citizens to stay at home as much as possible and avoid socialising beyond their families.
"If we don't go out, if we avoid contact with others, then the virus won't be able to spread. It is as simple as that," he said.
The South East Asian state had until this week maintained a relative sense of normality after adopting social-distancing measures alongside sophisticated technology to push back the virus.
The resurgence of cases raised new concerns about the difficulties of maintaining containment measures in the long term.
Mr Lee assured Singapore's citizens that food supplies would not run out and promised an announcement early next week about additional stimulus measures to boost the economy.
The new strict curbs are intended as a form of "circuit breaker" after a sharp rise of cases in March, particularly in domestic infections whose origin could not be traced.
Lawrence Wong, Minister for National Development, who co-chairs a task force to fight the virus, called the increase in the number of local and unlinked coronavirus cases "very, very worrying trends".
He indicated the Government would be ready to reverse restrictions by the end of April if the guidelines successfully suppressed the virus.
"If there's poor compliance, poor implementation, then we have to be prepared for these measures to continue," Mr Wong said. "Let’s hunker down and beat the virus together."
The new measures come after warnings in other Asian countries that the early relaxation of social-distancing rules could allow the floodgates to open on new Covid-19 cases."0
