The big Coronavirus thread

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

What would be the right price in your view?

50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks, plus a possible 2 week recovery?
4 weeks wages would be a minimum, add on inconvenience to that.

OK, so geared to how much you earn. I like your attitude

You asked my price and I gave it. As I am currently wfh it's not going to happen anyway. I do not speak for others and do not suggest it to be policy.

At least you're still working, otherwise the price based on your principles would be rather low...

It's all academic, I don't expect anyone in full time employment to volunteer for the vaccine. You probably need to be in a hospital setting for a few days, which is incompatible with having to work.
Unemployed, students... the usual suspects who can do with a top up in their wallet

The vaccination appointment is about an hour according to the link, then several shorter appointments after that. Not convenient but you could fit it in around work. But, for £235, I wouldn't be bothering.

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

What would be the right price in your view?

50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks, plus a possible 2 week recovery?
4 weeks wages would be a minimum, add on inconvenience to that.

Am I misunderstanding the risks of a vaccine trial? It's not like just being infected with the live virus is it? Not unless they seriously f'd up.

It's not. Vaccines are usually deactivated versions of the virus or fragments of the virus that trigger the immune response without giving you the disease.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Some of today's news:
- shipment of gowns arrives from Turkey
- ventilator challenge is producing ventilators
- test capapcity now at 39,000, but more subjects are required

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/21/we-made-right-choice-in-ventilator-race-says-uk-consortium-head

Interestingly the DM is full of doom gloom and despondency
- the plane was too small
- Nightingale is turning patients away due to no nurses

On the plus side, some people I had never heard of have been wearing bikinis during lockdown

There's not much of a scoop in being positive. Better to focus on the EU procurement scheme scandal. I was trying to find out whether any ventilators have actually been delivered anywhere under the scheme, but it seems better to make it political whether or not it was politics or incompetence which led to the UK not joining. I don't think it has actually resulted in any ventilators.

I thought the EU procurement scheme was mainly PPE, and so far there has been one or no deliveries (though a lot in the pipeline).

There's two: ventilators and PPE. Hancock was accused of answering about PPE (he asked to join [not sure what happened], but nothing has been delivered) when asked about a ventilators (the UK didn't join due to politics/incompetence, but nothing has been delivered)

First.Aspect

Pross said:

Yeah, I was listening to a virologist from Imperial this morning and it was really interesting. I think he said it is basically the pretty spiky protein casing that gets used to get the body to trigger an immune response. It's more advanced than the method used in flu vaccines.

The idea is to use another virus case (capsid) modified with a bit of protein characteristic of the Covid virus. The virus capsid they are using is known to generate a strong immune response (unlike Covid, they think). But the question remains as to whether the immune response it generates will actually result in antibodies that convey immunity over Covid.

I have just barely enough understanding to roughly get the idea, nowhere near enough to judge whether excitement or skepticism is in order.

coopster_the_1st

kingstongraham said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Social media dictated which commodities had to be stocked up... tinned and dry stuff was an obvious one, toilet paper was a bit unexpected

Goes back to the no deal Brexit Project Fear claptrap

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-bums-rush-no-deal-could-wipe-out-toilet-paper-stocks-11831093

Then when you hear about stockpiling, it's in the folk memory.

FTFY.

It demonstrates perfectly the irresponsibily from remoaners with their attempts at anything to achieve their agenda.

TheBigBean

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm not in the right postcode by the look of it.

just tried but i'm too old, grrrr

i'd tell them to keep the money/donate it, at least doing the trial would add a bit of variety

A cough in the last 30 days has ruled me out.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Some of today's news:
- shipment of gowns arrives from Turkey
- ventilator challenge is producing ventilators
- test capapcity now at 39,000, but more subjects are required

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/21/we-made-right-choice-in-ventilator-race-says-uk-consortium-head

Interestingly the DM is full of doom gloom and despondency
- the plane was too small
- Nightingale is turning patients away due to no nurses

On the plus side, some people I had never heard of have been wearing bikinis during lockdown

That Nightingale one sounds like BS to me. It's not like they are places where a patient will just turn up, they get moved there when deemed necessary. The plane one sounds like they've hired Rick to write for them, I thought I'd seen pictures of a C130 waiting on the runway and they aren't exactly small.

A400M apparently and they only carry 37 tonnes

Stevo_666

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm not in the right postcode by the look of it.

just tried but i'm too old, grrrr

i'd tell them to keep the money/donate it, at least doing the trial would add a bit of variety

I'm just in the allowed age group but not sure why they want to exclude swathes of SE London/NW Kent.

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

What would be the right price in your view?

50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks, plus a possible 2 week recovery?
4 weeks wages would be a minimum, add on inconvenience to that.

OK, so geared to how much you earn. I like your attitude

You asked my price and I gave it. As I am currently wfh it's not going to happen anyway. I do not speak for others and do not suggest it to be policy.

At least you're still working, otherwise the price based on your principles would be rather low...

It's all academic, I don't expect anyone in full time employment to volunteer for the vaccine. You probably need to be in a hospital setting for a few days, which is incompatible with having to work.
Unemployed, students... the usual suspects who can do with a top up in their wallet

The vaccination appointment is about an hour according to the link, then several shorter appointments after that. Not convenient but you could fit it in around work. But, for £235, I wouldn't be bothering.

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

What would be the right price in your view?

50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks, plus a possible 2 week recovery?
4 weeks wages would be a minimum, add on inconvenience to that.

Am I misunderstanding the risks of a vaccine trial? It's not like just being infected with the live virus is it? Not unless they seriously f'd up.

It's not. Vaccines are usually deactivated versions of the virus or fragments of the virus that trigger the immune response without giving you the disease.

Right, but in theory not the full immune response. I guess part of the risk of being in a trial is that the response might be bigger than they hope - but the risk should not be 50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks then recovering for 2 more.

pangolin

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Some of today's news:
- shipment of gowns arrives from Turkey
- ventilator challenge is producing ventilators
- test capapcity now at 39,000, but more subjects are required

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/21/we-made-right-choice-in-ventilator-race-says-uk-consortium-head

Interestingly the DM is full of doom gloom and despondency
- the plane was too small
- Nightingale is turning patients away due to no nurses

On the plus side, some people I had never heard of have been wearing bikinis during lockdown

That Nightingale one sounds like BS to me. It's not like they are places where a patient will just turn up, they get moved there when deemed necessary. The plane one sounds like they've hired Rick to write for them, I thought I'd seen pictures of a C130 waiting on the runway and they aren't exactly small.

A400M apparently and they only carry 37 tonnes

That's a lot of (very light) PPE.

Incidentally 37 tonnes is almost twice the carrying capacity of a C130 apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-130_Hercules
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A400M_Atlas

Stevo_666

pangolin said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

What would be the right price in your view?

50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks, plus a possible 2 week recovery?
4 weeks wages would be a minimum, add on inconvenience to that.

OK, so geared to how much you earn. I like your attitude

You asked my price and I gave it. As I am currently wfh it's not going to happen anyway. I do not speak for others and do not suggest it to be policy.

At least you're still working, otherwise the price based on your principles would be rather low...

It's all academic, I don't expect anyone in full time employment to volunteer for the vaccine. You probably need to be in a hospital setting for a few days, which is incompatible with having to work.
Unemployed, students... the usual suspects who can do with a top up in their wallet

The vaccination appointment is about an hour according to the link, then several shorter appointments after that. Not convenient but you could fit it in around work. But, for £235, I wouldn't be bothering.

pblakeney said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

That appears to be doing it on the cheap.
Pretty galling for a project that they are literally throwing money at.

What would be the right price in your view?

50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks, plus a possible 2 week recovery?
4 weeks wages would be a minimum, add on inconvenience to that.

Am I misunderstanding the risks of a vaccine trial? It's not like just being infected with the live virus is it? Not unless they seriously f'd up.

It's not. Vaccines are usually deactivated versions of the virus or fragments of the virus that trigger the immune response without giving you the disease.

Right, but in theory not the full immune response. I guess part of the risk of being in a trial is that the response might be bigger than they hope - but the risk should not be 50% chance of being severely ill for 2 weeks then recovering for 2 more.

True, a larger than expected immune response in itself is a risk.

coopster_the_1st

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Yeah, I was listening to a virologist from Imperial this morning and it was really interesting. I think he said it is basically the pretty spiky protein casing that gets used to get the body to trigger an immune response. It's more advanced than the method used in flu vaccines.

The idea is to use another virus case (capsid) modified with a bit of protein characteristic of the Covid virus. The virus capsid they are using is known to generate a strong immune response (unlike Covid, they think). But the question remains as to whether the immune response it generates will actually result in antibodies that convey immunity over Covid.

I have just barely enough understanding to roughly get the idea, nowhere near enough to judge whether excitement or skepticism is in order.

That is how I understand it but even the experts don't know if this will be a successful vaccine so there is no chance for us laymen to judge this.

I think there may be a complication as some people are able to fight off C19 without producing the required antibodies. Don't know if or how much this would risk the vaccine being successful or not

TheBigBean

Stevo_666 said:

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm not in the right postcode by the look of it.

just tried but i'm too old, grrrr

i'd tell them to keep the money/donate it, at least doing the trial would add a bit of variety

I'm just in the allowed age group but not sure why they want to exclude swathes of SE London/NW Kent.

It excludes central London as well which is odd, as they are some of the people who can walk to Imperial.

ugo.santalucia

coopster_the_1st said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Yeah, I was listening to a virologist from Imperial this morning and it was really interesting. I think he said it is basically the pretty spiky protein casing that gets used to get the body to trigger an immune response. It's more advanced than the method used in flu vaccines.

The idea is to use another virus case (capsid) modified with a bit of protein characteristic of the Covid virus. The virus capsid they are using is known to generate a strong immune response (unlike Covid, they think). But the question remains as to whether the immune response it generates will actually result in antibodies that convey immunity over Covid.

I have just barely enough understanding to roughly get the idea, nowhere near enough to judge whether excitement or skepticism is in order.

That is how I understand it but even the experts don't know if this will be a successful vaccine so there is no chance for us laymen to judge this.

I think there may be a complication as some people are able to fight off C19 without producing the required antibodies. Don't know if or how much this would risk the vaccine being successful or not

You signed up yet for the trial? Oxford is quite handy for you, no?

ugo.santalucia

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm not in the right postcode by the look of it.

just tried but i'm too old, grrrr

i'd tell them to keep the money/donate it, at least doing the trial would add a bit of variety

How old is too old?

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia said:

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm not in the right postcode by the look of it.

just tried but i'm too old, grrrr

i'd tell them to keep the money/donate it, at least doing the trial would add a bit of variety

How old is too old?

Allowed age range is up to 55 yo.

ugo.santalucia

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

sungod said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

TheBigBean said:

Not much interest in controlled infection as a vaccine then.

1 in 500 chance of hospitalisation.
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much interest, no.

I think if you offered £2k to be a medical guinea pig you would have them queueing around the block

How about £625?

Human trials of a UK vaccine going ahead, which is clearly a promising development. They're appealing for volunteers if anyone wants to do their bit:
https://bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-52363531

While it is far from guaranteed to work there are something like 80 other live vaccine projects globally.

Direct link for interested parties.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/volunteer

It is only £230 in London, and there is only a 50% chance you get the vaccine. Also, lots of time consuming appointments. Other than the 50% bit, I might have been interested.

I'm not in the right postcode by the look of it.

just tried but i'm too old, grrrr

i'd tell them to keep the money/donate it, at least doing the trial would add a bit of variety

How old is too old?

Allowed age range is up to 55 yo.

In range, but out of postcode range...
Interestingly they are not recruiting for the Oxford trial... must be already all taken... another run to the toilet paper, seemingly...

Or a lot of unemployed people...

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

PPE remains a complete cluster censored though. The Government have an opportunity to keep British manufacturing running therefore reducing furlough or UC costs and get equipment sourced within the country. I understand the advantages of using proven manufacturers but it makes sense logistically to make as much as possible locally.

I think the problem is that every man and his dog has offered to provide PPE and they are struggling to filter out the no hopers from the genuinely capable.

I have heard that, but with the unlimited amounts of money available it does show a lack of imagination that in two months they have not set up a better system.

The big consultancies must have thousands of people twiddling their thumbs, surely you could chuck a couple of million shekels at them to sift the incoming emails so only a manageable amount are passed to specialists

pblakeney

Pross said:

Yeah, I was listening to a virologist from Imperial this morning and it was really interesting. I think he said it is basically the pretty spiky protein casing that gets used to get the body to trigger an immune response. It's more advanced than the method used in flu vaccines.

It’s still a test. One of the reasons for testing is that it could go wrong.
Maybe I’m just more risk averted than others.

coopster_the_1st

ugo.santalucia said:

coopster_the_1st said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Yeah, I was listening to a virologist from Imperial this morning and it was really interesting. I think he said it is basically the pretty spiky protein casing that gets used to get the body to trigger an immune response. It's more advanced than the method used in flu vaccines.

The idea is to use another virus case (capsid) modified with a bit of protein characteristic of the Covid virus. The virus capsid they are using is known to generate a strong immune response (unlike Covid, they think). But the question remains as to whether the immune response it generates will actually result in antibodies that convey immunity over Covid.

I have just barely enough understanding to roughly get the idea, nowhere near enough to judge whether excitement or skepticism is in order.

That is how I understand it but even the experts don't know if this will be a successful vaccine so there is no chance for us laymen to judge this.

I think there may be a complication as some people are able to fight off C19 without producing the required antibodies. Don't know if or how much this would risk the vaccine being successful or not

You signed up yet for the trial? Oxford is quite handy for you, no?

No. About 90 minutes away

Also working full time.

If I was not working I would be volunteering for the area and signed up for the trial. Having confirmed immunity, even if only a 50% chance of being selected, would be hugely beneficial in the jobs market for those who losing their jobs. Those furloughed should think about this as they are very high risk of being unemployed in the next few months and that is a place I am glad I am not in.

ugo.santalucia

coopster_the_1st said:

ugo.santalucia said:

coopster_the_1st said:

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

Yeah, I was listening to a virologist from Imperial this morning and it was really interesting. I think he said it is basically the pretty spiky protein casing that gets used to get the body to trigger an immune response. It's more advanced than the method used in flu vaccines.

The idea is to use another virus case (capsid) modified with a bit of protein characteristic of the Covid virus. The virus capsid they are using is known to generate a strong immune response (unlike Covid, they think). But the question remains as to whether the immune response it generates will actually result in antibodies that convey immunity over Covid.

I have just barely enough understanding to roughly get the idea, nowhere near enough to judge whether excitement or skepticism is in order.

That is how I understand it but even the experts don't know if this will be a successful vaccine so there is no chance for us laymen to judge this.

I think there may be a complication as some people are able to fight off C19 without producing the required antibodies. Don't know if or how much this would risk the vaccine being successful or not

You signed up yet for the trial? Oxford is quite handy for you, no?

No. About 90 minutes away

Also working full time.

If I was not working I would be volunteering for the area and signed up for the trial. Having confirmed immunity, even if only a 50% chance of being selected, would be hugely beneficial in the jobs market for those who losing their jobs. Those furloughed should think about this as they are very high risk of being unemployed in the next few months and that is a place I am glad I am not in.

Chickening out...

Anyway, apparently they are not recruiting for the Oxford one...

kingstonian

So the key points I've taken from this morning .......

37 tonnes of PPE have arrived in the UK from Turkey. Seems to me that 37 tonnes would be a huge amount of (very light) rubber gloves and facemasks. Some query as to why it wasn't flown over in a Hercules, but apparently the plane used has a much higher load capacity than a Hercules anyway.

Still lots of consternation about the UK's involvement or not in the EU procurement scheme to obtain PPE and ventilators, but we don't believe that approach has actually yielded any results yet. Easy to point the finger in the first place at the UK govnt about not signing up, but if we had done would the 37 tonnes procured from Turkey have materialised?

Work on vaccines is moving apace, but if you're over 55 or live near Stevo they don't want you to trial it.

focuszing723

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Some of today's news:
- shipment of gowns arrives from Turkey
- ventilator challenge is producing ventilators
- test capapcity now at 39,000, but more subjects are required

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/21/we-made-right-choice-in-ventilator-race-says-uk-consortium-head

Interestingly the DM is full of doom gloom and despondency
- the plane was too small
- Nightingale is turning patients away due to no nurses

On the plus side, some people I had never heard of have been wearing bikinis during lockdown

That Nightingale one sounds like BS to me. It's not like they are places where a patient will just turn up, they get moved there when deemed necessary. The plane one sounds like they've hired Rick to write for them, I thought I'd seen pictures of a C130 waiting on the runway and they aren't exactly small.

A400M apparently and they only carry 37 tonnes

There must be more to the story. I simply can't believe there was 80 tons of PPE and they sent over just one 37 tonne capacity plane.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

PPE remains a complete cluster censored though. The Government have an opportunity to keep British manufacturing running therefore reducing furlough or UC costs and get equipment sourced within the country. I understand the advantages of using proven manufacturers but it makes sense logistically to make as much as possible locally.

I think the problem is that every man and his dog has offered to provide PPE and they are struggling to filter out the no hopers from the genuinely capable.

I have heard that, but with the unlimited amounts of money available it does show a lack of imagination that in two months they have not set up a better system.

The big consultancies must have thousands of people twiddling their thumbs, surely you could chuck a couple of million shekels at them to sift the incoming emails so only a manageable amount are passed to specialists

It is not exactly a glowing endorsement of the private sector either. If a company can make PPE to specification, then make it. Are they worried it won't sell? Do they really need a pre-emptive pat on the back from the government before making something that is in short supply all over the world?

rjsterry

Rather grim reading from the FT on likely real numbers so far extrapolated from the ONS figures for the beginning of April.

https://amp.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab?__twitter_impression=true

ugo.santalucia

And here's my wife first contribution to the national PPE effort

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Rather grim reading from the FT on likely real numbers so far extrapolated from the ONS figures for the beginning of April.

https://amp.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab?__twitter_impression=true

Is that a whole article on simply using the excess deaths to be corona deaths?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Rather grim reading from the FT on likely real numbers so far extrapolated from the ONS figures for the beginning of April.

https://amp.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab?__twitter_impression=true

Is that a whole article on simply using the excess deaths to be corona deaths?

It's free to read to check it out for yourself.

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia said:

And here's my wife first contribution to the national PPE effort

Well done Mrs. Santalucia. If enough people do that it makes for a lot of kit.

Our group is using its 3D printing facilities to make those clear plastic face shields.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Rather grim reading from the FT on likely real numbers so far extrapolated from the ONS figures for the beginning of April.

https://amp.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab?__twitter_impression=true

Is that a whole article on simply using the excess deaths to be corona deaths?

Prof Spiegelhalter said that coronavirus was not given as the cause on many of the death certificates but was likely to be a direct or indirect factor. He said many doctors would initially have been reluctant to designate the virus as the cause on death certificates as it was a new disease and they could not have been certain.

Some of those who died from other causes may have been too scared to attend hospital or did not want to be a burden on the health service so they could be seen as possible indirect victims of the virus, he argued. But he added, the sheer number of deaths caused by the virus meant, “there is no suggestion that the collateral damage — however large it is — is anything like as big as the harm from Covid”.

rjsterry

Quite. The last lot of ONS figures (deaths registered in w/c 10th April) had about 8000 excess deaths above the 5 year average, of which 6000 were directly connected to C19. So the indirect excess deaths are much smaller than those directly linked to the epidemic, albeit still a significant number.