The big Coronavirus thread

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Comments

  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338
    rick_chasey said:

    joe2019 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

    Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

    Men are 5 times more likely to smoke
    I think if you control for that men still die a lot more.
    Time for a sex change then

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    joe2019 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    joe2019 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

    Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

    Men are 5 times more likely to smoke
    I think if you control for that men still die a lot more.
    Time for a sex change then

    I guess so, unless it's genetic.
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,193
    edited April 2020
    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    joe2019 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

    Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

    Men are 5 times more likely to smoke
    In which country?

    That really feels wrong for the UK
  • joe2019
    joe2019 Posts: 1,338
    surrey_commuter said:

    joe2019 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

    Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

    Men are 5 times more likely to smoke
    In which country?

    That really feels wrong for the UK
    That's a worldwide figure 35% versus 6% - in the UK it is a lot closer I'd imagine.

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,477
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    rick_chasey said:

    There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

    Man Flu just got real
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,193
    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
    I wouldn't say wear them all the time, but when people are packed on public transport, supermarkets, it seems to make sense.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
    I wouldn't say wear them all the time, but when people are packed on public transport, supermarkets, it seems to make sense.
    If most people aren't wearing face coverings, and your concern is avoiding catching it (rather than avoiding spreading it), then maybe so. But if that is going to be the recommendation, they need to be converting some factories to making them, and buying a sh!tload of raw materials.

    Better to have everyone wearing something washable IMO.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,193
    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
    I wouldn't say wear them all the time, but when people are packed on public transport, supermarkets, it seems to make sense.
    If most people aren't wearing face coverings, and your concern is avoiding catching it (rather than avoiding spreading it), then maybe so. But if that is going to be the recommendation, they need to be converting some factories to making them, and buying a sh!tload of raw materials.

    Better to have everyone wearing something washable IMO.
    Yes I agree, washable would be a much better solution for the general public.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,669
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
    I wouldn't say wear them all the time, but when people are packed on public transport, supermarkets, it seems to make sense.
    Don't you need a fair amount of awareness of how to wear PPE effectively for it to be... effective?

    e.g., people are encouraged not to wear gloves for food preparation specifically because it gives a false sense of security and they touch all sorts of crap without washing their hands (gloves) in between.

    Same goes for masks. I see people now out and about touching them, pulling them down when they think they're not needed, pulling them back on when they think they are. If they keep touching the mask then either they are spreading infection from their hands to the mask or spreading it from their mask to their hands.

    Shockingly this is not as simple as "everyone needs to wear PPE". If everyone wears it badly then we are worse off, and we now have less to use for those people who really need it and actually know how to use it.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    When it is made compulsory, it won't be to protect the wearer.

    I agree, the wearing of gloves seems a complete waste of time for pretty much everyone. You'll need to wash your hands after taking them off, so wash your hands anyway.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,689
    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
    Yep, I wore one for about 2 minutes on a cold evening and my face was very sweaty and uncomfortable. I really don't know how people manage to work in them all day in hot conditions. For lower risk contact I would have thought a buff or scarf would do just as much good as a home made mask or even a properly manufactured surgical mask that tend to sag open on the sides.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,193
    pangolin said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

    Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.
    Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
    This would be a good thing to encourage people to do until supply meets demand. It's not going to be perfect and by no means N95 standard, but it must help to limit the amount of droplets spread into the air. I'm happy to be contradicted, a small amount of the virus entering into a person would allow the immune system to have a better fighting chance and not get overloaded.
    I don't think you want everyone wearing N95 masks for several reasons, the main one being that there aren't currently enough of them for everyone who really needs them. Also, they get really hot and uncomfortable in my very limited diy experience of wearing them, so people would probably take them off quite often for a break from them.
    I wouldn't say wear them all the time, but when people are packed on public transport, supermarkets, it seems to make sense.
    Don't you need a fair amount of awareness of how to wear PPE effectively for it to be... effective?

    e.g., people are encouraged not to wear gloves for food preparation specifically because it gives a false sense of security and they touch all sorts of censored without washing their hands (gloves) in between.

    Same goes for masks. I see people now out and about touching them, pulling them down when they think they're not needed, pulling them back on when they think they are. If they keep touching the mask then either they are spreading infection from their hands to the mask or spreading it from their mask to their hands.

    Shockingly this is not as simple as "everyone needs to wear PPE". If everyone wears it badly then we are worse off, and we now have less to use for those people who really need it and actually know how to use it.
    All fair points. No question it would need guidance if implemented akin to other countries.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,922
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,922
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
    Well we don't have one.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    ddraver said:

    More Poor people are black

    Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

    Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

    But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.
    None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.
    Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.
    Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.
    Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

    Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.
    Because the point that ddraver made was about ethnic minority healthcare workers having lower-level jobs and therefore being disproportionately affected. This is simply not the case with the doctors who have died in the UK (if I'm not mistaken this pattern is also relevant to France). Before I actually consider that it could be due to socioeconomic factors I'd need to see some actual evidence (which hasn't been provided).

    On the other hand, there is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency can mean you have less protection against respiratory viruses and they are more severe when you tend to get them. There are several historical examples of vitamin D insufficiency, like Asian immigrants getting rickets more readily. Those with darker skin need more sunlight than those with paler skin to make the same amount of vitamin D.

    It we dismiss any other theories and go for racism then we might not actually solve a problem which can be solved.
    I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying both an increased susceptibility and socio-economic factors - BAME people being disproportionately represented in front line health services - could be involved. F*** knows why you and Coopster keep bringing up racism. It's like some sort of tick.
    It was ddraver who dismissed it. As to bringing up racism, that was also ddraver.
    I've checked back: he didn't mention it. Your woke-radar needs turning down 😉
    I disagree but not worth spending any more time on!
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    Obesity is the second biggest risk factor (after age) in New York

    https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/coronavirus-obesity-top-factor-after-age-driving-nyc-hospitalization-2020-4

    If you look at the photos of those who have died in the UK, a fair number of them look to be obese. Especially the younger ones.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    The are only doing this for their 'large business customers' where the transfers will be substantial amounts and so the fraud risk relates to large sums. There are relatively few groups of this size compared to the overall business 'population' and each relationship manger is tasked with doing his for their 'customers'.

    They were also at at pains to point out that employees of these large groups should not contact HMRC directly, but direct any queries via the nominated responsible people (in our case, the payroll manager). this is to keep the helplines etc free for small businesses whose needs may be greater and resources smaller.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,922
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    The are only doing this for their 'large business customers' where the transfers will be substantial amounts and so the fraud risk relates to large sums. There are relatively few groups of this size compared to the overall business 'population' and each relationship manger is tasked with doing his for their 'customers'.

    They were also at at pains to point out that employees of these large groups should not contact HMRC directly, but direct any queries via the nominated responsible people (in our case, the payroll manager). this is to keep the helplines etc free for small businesses whose needs may be greater and resources smaller.
    Fingers crossed. A busy week for HMRC staff.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,897
    nickice said:

    Obesity is the second biggest risk factor (after age) in New York

    https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/coronavirus-obesity-top-factor-after-age-driving-nyc-hospitalization-2020-4

    If you look at the photos of those who have died in the UK, a fair number of them look to be obese. Especially the younger ones.

    Male and obese in the younger ones.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    edited April 2020
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
    See my point above to RJS and KG re: timing and prioritising help to SMEs. All the indications are the payments will happen soon so fair play to them. However let's see.

    The HMRC definition of a large business that gets a relationship manager cover approx. the largest 2,000 corporate tax payers - the last threshold I saw was annual turnover in excess of £200m, or gross balance sheet assets over £2 billion.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
    See my point above to RJS and KG re: timing and prioritising help to SMEs. All the indications are the payments will happen soon so fair play to them. However let's see.

    The HMRC definition of a large business that gets a relationship manager cover approx. the largest 2,000 corporate tax payers - the last threshold I saw was annual turnover in excess of £200m, or gross balance sheet assets over £2 billion.
    I guess this is the problem, they are backing new processes into existing structures. The top 2,000 companies by revenue will pay a disproportionate share of tax so have relationship managers. There is no logic that they will be the most needy recipients of these schemes.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 62,011
    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
    See my point above to RJS and KG re: timing and prioritising help to SMEs. All the indications are the payments will happen soon so fair play to them. However let's see.

    The HMRC definition of a large business that gets a relationship manager cover approx. the largest 2,000 corporate tax payers - the last threshold I saw was annual turnover in excess of £200m, or gross balance sheet assets over £2 billion.
    I guess this is the problem, they are backing new processes into existing structures. The top 2,000 companies by revenue will pay a disproportionate share of tax so have relationship managers. There is no logic that they will be the most needy recipients of these schemes.

    They aren't necessarily (although airlines and leisure groups etc may have a diifferent view) - which is why HMRC are prioritising the help lines etc to smaller businesses, as I mentioned above.

    There is no indication we will get paid before anyone else. And there are several other support mechanisms available to small businesses thst are not available to large ones.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
    See my point above to RJS and KG re: timing and prioritising help to SMEs. All the indications are the payments will happen soon so fair play to them. However let's see.

    The HMRC definition of a large business that gets a relationship manager cover approx. the largest 2,000 corporate tax payers - the last threshold I saw was annual turnover in excess of £200m, or gross balance sheet assets over £2 billion.
    I guess this is the problem, they are backing new processes into existing structures. The top 2,000 companies by revenue will pay a disproportionate share of tax so have relationship managers. There is no logic that they will be the most needy recipients of these schemes.

    I absolutely do not see that as a problem, it is the only way to get this done quickly. Starting from scratch would not get you anywhere near having a system of this scale ready to roll in a month.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,742
    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    ddraver said:

    More Poor people are black

    Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

    Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

    But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.
    None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.
    Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.
    Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.
    Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

    Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.
    Because the point that ddraver made was about ethnic minority healthcare workers having lower-level jobs and therefore being disproportionately affected. This is simply not the case with the doctors who have died in the UK (if I'm not mistaken this pattern is also relevant to France). Before I actually consider that it could be due to socioeconomic factors I'd need to see some actual evidence (which hasn't been provided).

    On the other hand, there is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency can mean you have less protection against respiratory viruses and they are more severe when you tend to get them. There are several historical examples of vitamin D insufficiency, like Asian immigrants getting rickets more readily. Those with darker skin need more sunlight than those with paler skin to make the same amount of vitamin D.

    It we dismiss any other theories and go for racism then we might not actually solve a problem which can be solved.
    I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying both an increased susceptibility and socio-economic factors - BAME people being disproportionately represented in front line health services - could be involved. F*** knows why you and Coopster keep bringing up racism. It's like some sort of tick.
    It was ddraver who dismissed it. As to bringing up racism, that was also ddraver.
    I've checked back: he didn't mention it. Your woke-radar needs turning down 😉
    I disagree but not worth spending any more time on!

    Naaaaw, I was watching that! Spoil sport

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-taskforce-government-patrick-vallance-covid-19-a9471221.html

    Can't especially see how red-tape is the Rate Determining Step with this but...m'kay

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    kingstongraham said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

    Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

    I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.
    Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.
    If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.
    The fact that they were ask in us to confirm by phone the last few digits of the relevant bank accounts to which the JRS payments would be made (secirity precaution) and a couple of other details in advance, plus the request that we have the call by the weekend, suggests strongly that this happening soon.
    If they will be phoning each company individually they are going to be extremely busy over the next 10 days to make sure employees get paid on time.
    That is a very valid point and I heard criticism that it is the SMEs (who need it most) who will not get it on time.

    SteveO any idea what size company you need to be to get a relationship manager?
    See my point above to RJS and KG re: timing and prioritising help to SMEs. All the indications are the payments will happen soon so fair play to them. However let's see.

    The HMRC definition of a large business that gets a relationship manager cover approx. the largest 2,000 corporate tax payers - the last threshold I saw was annual turnover in excess of £200m, or gross balance sheet assets over £2 billion.
    I guess this is the problem, they are backing new processes into existing structures. The top 2,000 companies by revenue will pay a disproportionate share of tax so have relationship managers. There is no logic that they will be the most needy recipients of these schemes.

    I absolutely do not see that as a problem, it is the only way to get this done quickly. Starting from scratch would not get you anywhere near having a system of this scale ready to roll in a month.
    I am not saying it is not the best solution. The problem I am anticipating is that the system is geared up to look after the 2,000 companies that probably pay more tax than the others put together. By reversing the process the support will not be there for the multitude of small companies that don’t have whole depts dedicated to navigating their way through the process.

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