The big Coronavirus thread

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstonian said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstonian said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/simbrowning/status/1250840380993658881?s=21

Rather worrying (he’s a BBC journo)

Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.

How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?

It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.

Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.

Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.

Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?

I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?

I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?

You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.

I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?

It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.

I think it was scepticism that the chap was genuinely tapping up the journalist for a Burberry contact as opposed to sending a not-very-coded message for PHE /central government to get it together. I don't think there is any real doubt that there are localised shortages even if overall provision is just about there. The distribution seems to be the problem.

Rick you know what I think about the Govt’s continued response to this continued pandemic. However this bloke is part of the problem, he is going to run out of gowns tomorrow and he chooses to play games phoning the BBC.

Why did he not phone the manufacturers yesterday and driven up there in a van and collected himself? That way he could have applied pressure to the Govt and solved his immediate problem.

If nothing else we are learning how useless public administration is in this country

Govt policy is ostensibly being decided by whatever issue the Mail feels is important.

So why not try making it a front page issue?

I would be very much in favour of shaming the govt into some competent decisions as that is the medium they seem to listen to.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstonian said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstonian said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/simbrowning/status/1250840380993658881?s=21

Rather worrying (he’s a BBC journo)

Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.

How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?

It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.

Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.

Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.

Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?

I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?

I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?

You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.

I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?

It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.

I think it was scepticism that the chap was genuinely tapping up the journalist for a Burberry contact as opposed to sending a not-very-coded message for PHE /central government to get it together. I don't think there is any real doubt that there are localised shortages even if overall provision is just about there. The distribution seems to be the problem.

Rick you know what I think about the Govt’s continued response to this continued pandemic. However this bloke is part of the problem, he is going to run out of gowns tomorrow and he chooses to play games phoning the BBC.

Why did he not phone the manufacturers yesterday and driven up there in a van and collected himself? That way he could have applied pressure to the Govt and solved his immediate problem.

If nothing else we are learning how useless public administration is in this country

1. I'm not Rick. 2. He might well have resolved the problem *as well as* phone up the journalist to get out a public message without having to disrupt his working relationship with PHE.

pblakeney

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstonian said:

rick_chasey said:

kingstonian said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/simbrowning/status/1250840380993658881?s=21

Rather worrying (he’s a BBC journo)

Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.

How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?

It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.

Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.

Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.

Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?

I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?

I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?

You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.

I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?

It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.

I think it was scepticism that the chap was genuinely tapping up the journalist for a Burberry contact as opposed to sending a not-very-coded message for PHE /central government to get it together. I don't think there is any real doubt that there are localised shortages even if overall provision is just about there. The distribution seems to be the problem.

Rick you know what I think about the Govt’s continued response to this continued pandemic. However this bloke is part of the problem, he is going to run out of gowns tomorrow and he chooses to play games phoning the BBC.

Why did he not phone the manufacturers yesterday and driven up there in a van and collected himself? That way he could have applied pressure to the Govt and solved his immediate problem.

If nothing else we are learning how useless public administration is in this country

It would appear that avenue has already been exhausted so they are going down the publicity route.

"On Wednesday afternoon the NHS boss offered to write a letter to a factory, issuing a certificate that would absolve the factory of liability if anything happened with the use of an uncertified gown, such was his desperation for equipment. However, the factory felt this was too dangerous.
This comes as factories around the UK are empty. Machinists and pattern cutters have been sent home and furloughed.
To add to the frustration of factory bosses, they say they're getting upsetting calls from NHS hospitals and workers begging for gowns."

focuszing723

Pross said:

focuszing723 said:

Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.

Yes, that's a fair point. I hope the call out to manufactures is getting through though, so this can happen sooner rather than later.

I wonder if high grade face masks can be washed, to enable re-use?

nickice

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

ddraver said:

More Poor people are black

Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.

None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.

Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.

Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.

Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.

Because the point that ddraver made was about ethnic minority healthcare workers having lower-level jobs and therefore being disproportionately affected. This is simply not the case with the doctors who have died in the UK (if I'm not mistaken this pattern is also relevant to France). Before I actually consider that it could be due to socioeconomic factors I'd need to see some actual evidence (which hasn't been provided).

On the other hand, there is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency can mean you have less protection against respiratory viruses and they are more severe when you tend to get them. There are several historical examples of vitamin D insufficiency, like Asian immigrants getting rickets more readily. Those with darker skin need more sunlight than those with paler skin to make the same amount of vitamin D.

It we dismiss any other theories and go for racism then we might not actually solve a problem which can be solved.

nickice

Pross said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

ddraver said:

More Poor people are black

Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.

None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.

Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.

Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.

Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

My post on this got stuck at the bottom of the previous page but covered the US Surgeon General's thoughts on why it seems to impact more highly on ethnic minority groups. He suggests that it is possibly down to past poorer upbringings that have resulted in underlying health issues.

EDIT I've just seen your reply to that. It might although when I hear this getting debated they tend to say black and Asian ethnic groups yet the rates of fatalities in Asia seem relatively low. There is a disproportionately high number of black and Asian people working in front line essential jobs though no matter whether they are low or high paid so therefore presumably a higher risk of contact.

That might be true in general but looking at doctors (I don't have the data for nurses though I suspect it's also the case) there might be something else going on. If ethnic minorities are disproportionately represented in deaths compared to the proportion ethnic minorities in a particular profession, it's worth investigating. That's clearly already the case for doctors but the sample might be too small.

Regarding health problems caused from poverty at a young age, that's also possible but I think it's unlikely that doctors from developing countries generally grew up in poverty. In fact, I'm sure I read something from Nathan Robinson about Indian immigrants to the US generally being middle and upper classes of India. A lot of these diseases are western diseases, too.

nickice

Re-read DDRavers posts as that is exactly what he is implying...

I certainly inferred the same thing as you. Perhaps he could clarify what he meant.

surrey_commuter

focuszing723 said:

Pross said:

focuszing723 said:

Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.

Yes, that's a fair point. I hope the call out to manufactures is getting through though, so this can happen sooner rather than later.

I wonder if high grade face masks can be washed, to enable re-use?

Not sure where I heard it but those like you see on building sites are most effective and can be reused.

coopster_the_1st

nickice said:

Re-read DDRavers posts as that is exactly what he is implying...

I certainly inferred the same thing as you. Perhaps he could clarify what he meant.

He could have clarified it with either of his original posts.

That he didn't shows exactly what he meant.

focuszing723

surrey_commuter said:

focuszing723 said:

Pross said:

focuszing723 said:

Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.

Yes, that's a fair point. I hope the call out to manufactures is getting through though, so this can happen sooner rather than later.

I wonder if high grade face masks can be washed, to enable re-use?

Not sure where I heard it but those like you see on building sites are most effective and can be reused.

Yes, that would be good even if they limit (not medical high grade) vapour droplets or stop people from touching their nose and mouth subconsciously.

rjsterry

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

ddraver said:

More Poor people are black

Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.

None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.

Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.

Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.

Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.

Because the point that ddraver made was about ethnic minority healthcare workers having lower-level jobs and therefore being disproportionately affected. This is simply not the case with the doctors who have died in the UK (if I'm not mistaken this pattern is also relevant to France). Before I actually consider that it could be due to socioeconomic factors I'd need to see some actual evidence (which hasn't been provided).

On the other hand, there is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency can mean you have less protection against respiratory viruses and they are more severe when you tend to get them. There are several historical examples of vitamin D insufficiency, like Asian immigrants getting rickets more readily. Those with darker skin need more sunlight than those with paler skin to make the same amount of vitamin D.

It we dismiss any other theories and go for racism then we might not actually solve a problem which can be solved.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying both an increased susceptibility and socio-economic factors - BAME people being disproportionately represented in front line health services - could be involved. F*** knows why you and Coopster keep bringing up racism. It's like some sort of tick.

pangolin

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/bluetooth-contact-tracing-apps

Interesting article about using tech for contact tracing.

Bluetooth isn't great because the signal range is a lot more than 2m, so you would probably get a lot of false positives.

GPS tracing isn't great because to do that for everyone would be resource intensive, and wouldn't tell you what floor of a building they were in for example.

Only 12% of people in Singapore downloaded their tracing app.

There isn't a silver bullet solution.

nickice

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

ddraver said:

More Poor people are black

Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.

None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.

Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.

Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.

Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.

Because the point that ddraver made was about ethnic minority healthcare workers having lower-level jobs and therefore being disproportionately affected. This is simply not the case with the doctors who have died in the UK (if I'm not mistaken this pattern is also relevant to France). Before I actually consider that it could be due to socioeconomic factors I'd need to see some actual evidence (which hasn't been provided).

On the other hand, there is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency can mean you have less protection against respiratory viruses and they are more severe when you tend to get them. There are several historical examples of vitamin D insufficiency, like Asian immigrants getting rickets more readily. Those with darker skin need more sunlight than those with paler skin to make the same amount of vitamin D.

It we dismiss any other theories and go for racism then we might not actually solve a problem which can be solved.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying both an increased susceptibility and socio-economic factors - BAME people being disproportionately represented in front line health services - could be involved. F*** knows why you and Coopster keep bringing up racism. It's like some sort of tick.

It was ddraver who dismissed it. As to bringing up racism, that was also ddraver.

surrey_commuter

Gilead Sciences optimistic about a vaccine they are trialling. Interesting this is being delivered out of financial outlets.

Also picking up a debate on here that people won’t go back to normal even after lockdown is lifted as people will be too scared. Theory being that Sweden and to a lesser extent the USA will bounce back quicker.

From UK point of view is tough because if you stop scaring people then reimposing lockdown will be harder.

rick_chasey

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Stevo_666

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.

Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Which is doubly significant as the stats for women outnumbering men in the high risk groups must accentuate the difference.
Though are your stats for hospital deaths so not including the really old?

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

Gilead Sciences optimistic about a vaccine they are trialling. Interesting this is being delivered out of financial outlets.

Also picking up a debate on here that people won’t go back to normal even after lockdown is lifted as people will be too scared. Theory being that Sweden and to a lesser extent the USA will bounce back quicker.

From UK point of view is tough because if you stop scaring people then reimposing lockdown will be harder.

I am sceptical those places with more deaths will, in context, rebound as quickly as places who had fewer (all other thing being equal).

focuszing723

rick_chasey said:

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

focuszing723

surrey_commuter said:

Gilead Sciences optimistic about a vaccine they are trialling. Interesting this is being delivered out of financial outlets.

Also picking up a debate on here that people won’t go back to normal even after lockdown is lifted as people will be too scared. Theory being that Sweden and to a lesser extent the USA will bounce back quicker.

From UK point of view is tough because if you stop scaring people then reimposing lockdown will be harder.

I still feel for the vast majority of people even when the lockdown ends they will still be cautious.

Wheelspinner

pangolin said:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/bluetooth-contact-tracing-apps

Interesting article about using tech for contact tracing.

Bluetooth isn't great because the signal range is a lot more than 2m, so you would probably get a lot of false positives.

GPS tracing isn't great because to do that for everyone would be resource intensive, and wouldn't tell you what floor of a building they were in for example.

Only 12% of people in Singapore downloaded their tracing app.

There isn't a silver bullet solution.

Our Muppet Controllers Government is all fired up about implementing this "solution" saying how fabulous it will be and what instant results it will guarantee or some bollox.

They reckon a "minimum" of 40% of the population is required for it to be effective.
(Presumably that means a much greater percentage of people who actually have smartphones).

Two days ago it was announced as a possibility, with people theoretically being asked to join up and submit their data "voluntarily".

Today the same f**ktards are already saying maybe it might have to be mandatory for "everyone" to download and register with it, if not enough people "do the right thing" and volunteer.

rick_chasey

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

Article in FT says basically no-one knows but it might be to do with the way oestrogen affects immune responses to viruses or that the types of genes that are related to the right level of immune responses are found in x chromosomes not y, or something like that.

Basically no-one knows but the guess is related to the immune response.

No doubt the trans crazies will be over to explain how sex is actually just a social construct and there is no such thing as a biological sex.

Stevo_666

Wheelspinner said:

pangolin said:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/bluetooth-contact-tracing-apps

Interesting article about using tech for contact tracing.

Bluetooth isn't great because the signal range is a lot more than 2m, so you would probably get a lot of false positives.

GPS tracing isn't great because to do that for everyone would be resource intensive, and wouldn't tell you what floor of a building they were in for example.

Only 12% of people in Singapore downloaded their tracing app.

There isn't a silver bullet solution.

Our Muppet Controllers Government is all fired up about implementing this "solution" saying how fabulous it will be and what instant results it will guarantee or some bollox.

They reckon a "minimum" of 40% of the population is required for it to be effective.
(Presumably that means a much greater percentage of people who actually have smartphones).

Two days ago it was announced as a possibility, with people theoretically being asked to join up and submit their data "voluntarily".

Today the same f**ktards are already saying maybe it might have to be mandatory for "everyone" to download and register with it, if not enough people "do the right thing" and volunteer.

Might be worth mentioning you're in Australia, WS...

pangolin

Wheelspinner said:

pangolin said:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/bluetooth-contact-tracing-apps

Interesting article about using tech for contact tracing.

Bluetooth isn't great because the signal range is a lot more than 2m, so you would probably get a lot of false positives.

GPS tracing isn't great because to do that for everyone would be resource intensive, and wouldn't tell you what floor of a building they were in for example.

Only 12% of people in Singapore downloaded their tracing app.

There isn't a silver bullet solution.

Our Muppet Controllers Government is all fired up about implementing this "solution" saying how fabulous it will be and what instant results it will guarantee or some bollox.

They reckon a "minimum" of 40% of the population is required for it to be effective.
(Presumably that means a much greater percentage of people who actually have smartphones).

Two days ago it was announced as a possibility, with people theoretically being asked to join up and submit their data "voluntarily".

Today the same f**ktards are already saying maybe it might have to be mandatory for "everyone" to download and register with it, if not enough people "do the right thing" and volunteer.

The article states that a survey last year said around 20% of people in the UK don't have a smartphone, and that 60% would need the app for it to work.

I think it would need to be mandatory given those numbers. But that only helps if you think it will really give you useful information.

focuszing723

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

Article in FT says basically no-one knows but it might be to do with the way oestrogen affects immune responses to viruses or that the types of genes that are related to the right level of immune responses are found in x chromosomes not y, or something like that.

Basically no-one knows but the guess is related to the immune response.

That's interesting. Let's hope it gives some clues to the scientist/medical experts on how to help people.

kingstongraham

Pross said:

focuszing723 said:

Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.

Here's the CDC guidance on how to make a (non-surgical) one out of a t-shirt without any sewing.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/

Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.

I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.

Didn't know of any delay (or wouldn't say). HMRC is a big organisation and she probably isn't close to it, so not conclusive either way. We'll know soon enough given the portal is due to go live next Monday and payments starting end of the month.

If they can get it live (and working) by the end of the month, that will still be an incredible achievement. Most projects wouldn't have established requirements (functional and non-functional) by then.

joe2019

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

Men are 5 times more likely to smoke

rick_chasey

joe2019 said:

focuszing723 said:

rick_chasey said:

There is a much bigger statistical difference between men and women; something like men are twice as likely to die from corona vs women, i believe.

Yes. I thought that was a bit of a glaring difference. Males mainly going out and getting the food and other supplies, immune systems are more inclined to overreact?

Men are 5 times more likely to smoke

I think if you control for that men still die a lot more.

rjsterry

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

rjsterry said:

nickice said:

ddraver said:

More Poor people are black

Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...

Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.

But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.

None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.

Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.

Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.

Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.

Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.

Because the point that ddraver made was about ethnic minority healthcare workers having lower-level jobs and therefore being disproportionately affected. This is simply not the case with the doctors who have died in the UK (if I'm not mistaken this pattern is also relevant to France). Before I actually consider that it could be due to socioeconomic factors I'd need to see some actual evidence (which hasn't been provided).

On the other hand, there is good evidence that vitamin D deficiency can mean you have less protection against respiratory viruses and they are more severe when you tend to get them. There are several historical examples of vitamin D insufficiency, like Asian immigrants getting rickets more readily. Those with darker skin need more sunlight than those with paler skin to make the same amount of vitamin D.

It we dismiss any other theories and go for racism then we might not actually solve a problem which can be solved.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying both an increased susceptibility and socio-economic factors - BAME people being disproportionately represented in front line health services - could be involved. F*** knows why you and Coopster keep bringing up racism. It's like some sort of tick.

It was ddraver who dismissed it. As to bringing up racism, that was also ddraver.

I've checked back: he didn't mention it. Your woke-radar needs turning down 😉