The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?0 -
Excellent linktailwindhome said:Guidance as to what reasonable means.
Note that "reasonable" includes:
"Exercising more than once per day - the only relevant consideration is whether repeated exercise on the same day can be considered a ‘reasonable excuse’ for leaving home"
No lengths of time are mentioned in regards to exercise.0 -
Have heard that the care home looking after my father in law took the early decision to directly source their PPE from manufacturers rather than wait in line for centralised deliveries. Sounds like they made a very good call. I suspect that the system has always been rickety but has never been really tested before.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I doubt that was his first call.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?0 -
rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.0 -
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?0 -
Smacks of an underlying agenda, which I think quite a few of us on here will pick up pretty quickly.kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Maybe he wanted his frustration to become public knowledge.
Just maybe.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Heard it this morning. My first thought was they just wanted to get the point out there in the media (which I can't blame them for if they are struggling to get what they need through official sources).surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
The whole PPE situation does still seem a complete mess. My wife took delivery of 500 (very basic surgical type) masks yesterday to cover their 5 houses but the houses they run are just standard 3 or 4 bedroom houses with a handful of service users and staff members in each (one is slightly larger). The standard of care they need to provide is fairly light touch and no service users are ill so the masks aren't urgently required though they're obviously happy to have them in case they do become more necessary. In the meantime it seems places with more urgent need of them aren't getting enough.0 -
He didn't say it was a BS story, he suggested that calling the BBC was a political statement which would seem the most obvious reason for calling a media outlet to get the information wouldn't you think (and quite reasonable to do if you aren't getting vital kit you've been promised for weeks)?rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?0 -
How is that political? Christ, we're entering US territory here.
Must not criticise the effort, not matter how half arsed the leadership is.
Oh no. That would be being political.
How about calling a spade a spade? Useless sacks of sh!t in government.- PM brags off about shaking hands of coronavirus patients; end up in ICU 2 and a half weeks later and is still off.
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- Health minister appoints his mate who has no expertise in logistics to run testing
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- Gov't insists on avoiding PPE bulk purchase schemes in the EU on ideological grounds during a PPE shortage.
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- Home secretary can't even say the right number in a press conference
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- Constant avoiding of questions during the daily briefings and says things like "hospital staff have enough kit" when reports say the opposite
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- Gov't announce a month into lockdown they will start to test staff in care homes.
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- Appalling take up of critical economic support - I mean the numbers are miniscule
0 - PM brags off about shaking hands of coronavirus patients; end up in ICU 2 and a half weeks later and is still off.
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rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
It's not all about you Rick
You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.0 -
Don't think that means that the need isn't genuine. He might be rather tired of vague reassurances from the government press conferences and meaningless tweets from PHE about how many individual items have been 'delivered'.Stevo_666 said:
Smacks of an underlying agenda, which I think quite a few of us on here will pick up pretty quickly.kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Sending a public message to politicians with the implication that private messages through the official channels have been ignored.rick_chasey said:How is that political? Christ, we're entering US territory here.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yeah, more a publicity 'stunt' for want of a better word but I suspect Kingstonian was trying to make the same point i.e. that they contacted the BBC in the knowledge it would get reported and hopefully help them get the issue resolved (unless they contacted the BBC's fashion correspondent in the hope they might get a direct number of someone at Burberry who could get things moving for them). The only person who queried if it was BS was Surry and even he was asking if it was as it seemed an unlikely route to take to try to get PPE.rick_chasey said:How is that political? Christ, we're entering US territory here.
As for whether people wouldn't have questioned it had TWH posted it, maybe that's because the information TWH posts is more balanced in nature and generally doesn't come with his own commentary / interpretation?0 -
rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?
You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.0 -
I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?
You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.
It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.0 -
I think it was scepticism that the chap was genuinely tapping up the journalist for a Burberry contact as opposed to sending a not-very-coded message for PHE /central government to get it together. I don't think there is any real doubt that there are localised shortages even if overall provision is just about there. The distribution seems to be the problem.rick_chasey said:
I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?
You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.
It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/16/swab-tester-uk-germany-south-korea
Here's a view from a Cambridge lab swab tester.Our shifts were meant to be excruciating 12-hour marathons. In reality, they are rather more like laid-back morning jogs. Dozens of academics and laboratory personnel from all over the UK languish in a hotel with nothing to do. Millions of pounds of equipment borrowed from universities and companies rests silently in the evening hours, when the noise of our collective toil should be deafening.
Sort of confirms what the FT was reporting yesterday that the challenge around testing is getting the swabs there in the first place; or that there aren't enough tests actually being done to test.0 -
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
Well yes I got that, but why is that relevant? Unless you think he's talking out of his arse.rjsterry said:
I think it was scepticism that the chap was genuinely tapping up the journalist for a Burberry contact as opposed to sending a not-very-coded message for PHE /central government to get it together. I don't think there is any real doubt that there are localised shortages even if overall provision is just about there. The distribution seems to be the problem.rick_chasey said:
I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?
You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.
It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.0 -
rick_chasey said:
I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?
You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.
It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.
Well maybe you ought to give a little thought into your line of questioning, rather than blast out poorly considered snidey comments.
For the record, I have zero idea whether the individual who contacted the BBC does or doesn't have enough PPE at their disposal. What I find odd, which is pretty clear in my first response to the story, is how he honestly felt the best way to get in touch with Burberry was through the BBC.
Regarding whether the govnt should be putting information on what PPE equipment had been made available, they might not want to do it because it could immediately put thousands of healthcare trusts in the line of fire from local journalists - "the government have said you received 100,000 pairs of gloves, how long will they last, if the government have sent you 100,000 pairs and you have nurses saying they don't have any, where have you put them" etc etc etc.
I'm not excusing the government, There are definitely going to be a lot of lessons to learn from this seismic event. But there are always upsides and downsides to pushing out information, sometimes it generates unintended consequences.0 -
See above, I commented on yesterday's reports that the testing stations weren't running at capacity potentially as sick NHS staff can't travel to them. Not sure what the solution is to that though.rick_chasey said:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/16/swab-tester-uk-germany-south-korea
Here's a view from a Cambridge lab swab tester.Our shifts were meant to be excruciating 12-hour marathons. In reality, they are rather more like laid-back morning jogs. Dozens of academics and laboratory personnel from all over the UK languish in a hotel with nothing to do. Millions of pounds of equipment borrowed from universities and companies rests silently in the evening hours, when the noise of our collective toil should be deafening.
Sort of confirms what the FT was reporting yesterday that the challenge around testing is getting the swabs there in the first place; or that there aren't enough tests actually being done to test.0 -
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The US Surgeon General (African American) was commenting on this a week or so back. His suggestion is that many have underlying health issues, including himself, due to poorer upbringings and possibly going back to previous generations. He has been criticised in some quarters for lacking awareness of black communities.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
He couldnt manage a google search so thought a journo was more skilled in this area.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?0 -
Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0
