The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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A journalist who has been in contact with those companies recently on a story about PPE. So might have the right numbers to call, and also might end up getting some publicity for the fact that he hasn't got enough PPE.john80 said:
He couldnt manage a google search so thought a journo was more skilled in this area.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
The government does react when there's wall to wall bad publicity, so sounds like a good strategy all round.0 -
Well as they are ambassadors for a mental health charity and the current situation is likely to be causing serious issues for those with mental health problems it seems perfectly reasonable for them to be doing that surely?mr_goo said:Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.
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https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-how-accurate-are-coronavirus-tests-135972
https://www.livescience.com/covid19-coronavirus-tests-false-negatives.html
Not hard to find concerns. In fact, looks like I misquoted - it is the high % false negatives that are the issue. Suggest to me that at best it is a way of tracking population-level spread to inform broad policy and target restrictions etc.. But not a panacea of track and trace as some people seem to think.
Funnily enough, if you want to buy a swab test on the internet, they are 99.9% accurate... apparently.0 -
https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/
Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.0 -
I haven't looked at this thread since page 5, when I went in this was the first unread comment. It hasn't aged well, does anyone believe we are in control of the situation now?coopster_the_1st said:
That is not 2 weeks. In this fast moving situation 2 additonal weeks is a lot.fenix said:
Government has just said we are 4 weeks behind Italy...coopster_the_1st said:
We are not 2 weeks behind Italy. It's rubbish to look at their numbers and then find the UK equivalent of positives and say that is how far behind we are. Both countries had patient zero at a similar time however Italy went weeks before catching up with contact tracing this patient. We knew all patient zero contacts (Brighton) very quickly.
That means in 2 weeks we can invoke a lockdown if the data shows it is the correct time.
Italy are reacting to this virus as they have lost control, whereas the UK is still in control of the situation.1 -
Not sure how having a big house or staff means you are protected from mental health issues or why they shouldn't comment on them. Given that their dad has had C19, the palace is clearly not that safe.mr_goo said:Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They've been doing that for the last 70 years or more...mr_goo said:Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.
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Do they still have staff?0
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We are testing. Nobody is arguing to not test.rjsterry said:
Look at the criteria the government has set.morstar said:I think there is a philosophical difference in this thread between what we think is happening.
My personal belief is that the UK position remains one of protect the NHS (to coin a phrase) until herd immunity or a vaccine arrives.
It is not one of stop the virus.
The government states consistently through many different voices that it sees limited value in a test that is immediately out of date.
The test they want is the antibody test which is not yet ready to a standard they are happy with. They like this test as it is both absolute and confirms an individual can become productive.
The lock down will be managed to keep mortality and hospital capacity managed while allowing herd immunity to build.
To clarify, this is not my policy but it is what is happening.
If the social distancing is enough to allow a gradual spread without a second peak, the whole thing will just rumble on for months to come with a gradual decline in mortality and a gradual return to normality. Other tools and measures will be used to improve both care and protection (e.g. better medical response and apps).
I guess I don’t believe that we are simply slow to get ourselves into the same position as Germany or South Korea, I simply don’t think that is an objective.
US will be first major western economy to be more or less back to normal and I suspect we will probably be the next to follow. Although we will be considerably more cautious than US, we will be the next.
I think the belief remains to get through this without exceeding capacity. Testing may reduce mortality but it is not an exit strategy, it is a management strategy that is perceived to have an untenable duration and cost.
3. “We need to have reliable data from SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies) showing that the rate of infection is decreasing to manageable levels across the board.”
You can't answer this question without testing.
There are disagreements about what number of tests is needed. I don't profess to know what number that is. I don't agree that it has to be big, bigger, the biggest, to be effective.
Reply Germany, I'll give you Luxembourg.0 -
I'm having a call with our HMRC relationship manager this afternoon on the JRS so will ask the question and let you know the feedback.kingstongraham said:https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/
Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
🤦🏻♂️kingstongraham said:https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/
Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Who knows but it wouldn't make for a very good rant to go on about them isolating in their house and doing all the tasks that every other young family does would it? You need to maintain your prejudices in these difficult times!TheBigBean said:Do they still have staff?
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Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.
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It might be or it might be that they are more genetically predisposed to those conditions. Who knows. Indian Americans are the richest ethnic group yet tend to have higher rates of diabetes.Pross said:
The US Surgeon General (African American) was commenting on this a week or so back. His suggestion is that many have underlying health issues, including himself, due to poorer upbringings and possibly going back to previous generations. He has been criticised in some quarters for lacking awareness of black communities.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
No, I now no longer believe we are in control of the situation! That is because they have allowed media opinion to take over. Decisions are being made because of egotistical media outrage rather than pragmatism.veronese68 said:
I haven't looked at this thread since page 5, when I went in this was the first unread comment. It hasn't aged well, does anyone believe we are in control of the situation now?coopster_the_1st said:
That is not 2 weeks. In this fast moving situation 2 additonal weeks is a lot.fenix said:
Government has just said we are 4 weeks behind Italy...coopster_the_1st said:
We are not 2 weeks behind Italy. It's rubbish to look at their numbers and then find the UK equivalent of positives and say that is how far behind we are. Both countries had patient zero at a similar time however Italy went weeks before catching up with contact tracing this patient. We knew all patient zero contacts (Brighton) very quickly.
That means in 2 weeks we can invoke a lockdown if the data shows it is the correct time.
Italy are reacting to this virus as they have lost control, whereas the UK is still in control of the situation.
The lockdown happened too early. Maybe only a couple of days, maybe a couple of weeks but it was driven my the media optics of the situation rather than pragmatism. It became "the rest of Europe is doing this, why have we not locked down?"
The government and their scientists are not allowed to be honest with the public that 100k+ will die from this because of the media induced outrage and then the media will amplify this . So policy is being made up as it goes along which is just making the situation worse.
Too many people incorrectly believe we can surpress this virus out of existance and then be vaccinated to back that up that solution. They are completely deluded but drive the media story on this.1 -
My post on this got stuck at the bottom of the previous page but covered the US Surgeon General's thoughts on why it seems to impact more highly on ethnic minority groups. He suggests that it is possibly down to past poorer upbringings that have resulted in underlying health issues.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.
EDIT I've just seen your reply to that. It might although when I hear this getting debated they tend to say black and Asian ethnic groups yet the rates of fatalities in Asia seem relatively low. There is a disproportionately high number of black and Asian people working in front line essential jobs though no matter whether they are low or high paid so therefore presumably a higher risk of contact.0 -
Your response was correct, but usual pillocks just want to be able to scream and imply racism as they have not been able to indulge their usual wokeness is the last 6-8 weeksPross said:
My post on this got stuck at the bottom of the previous page but covered the US Surgeon General's thoughts on why it seems to impact more highly on ethnic minority groups. He suggests that it is possibly down to past poorer upbringings that have resulted in underlying health issues.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.
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Exactly - I don’t want a royal family 365 days of every year, no point everyday complaining about our ludicrous system of Govt and their wealth. TBH I like them more when they totally abuse their position of privilege. In much the same way I prefer my lottery winners to indulge in a coke and hooker orgy rather than insisting it will not change them.Pross said:
Who knows but it wouldn't make for a very good rant to go on about them isolating in their house and doing all the tasks that every other young family does would it? You need to maintain your prejudices in these difficult times!TheBigBean said:Do they still have staff?
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rjsterry said:
🤦🏻♂️kingstongraham said:https://www.ftadviser.com/companies/2020/04/16/furlough-scheme-faces-delays/
Furlough scheme website not expected to be available until end of the month.
Which month?0 -
I don't think anyone on here has implied that to be fair. I just wasn't sure if Nick has seen the reply as it ended up on the bottom of a page. Ironically, the black Surgeon General was criticised by 'black health experts' whatever that means for not understanding the black community though.coopster_the_1st said:
Your response was correct, but usual pillocks just want to be able to scream and imply racism as they have not been able to indulge their usual wokeness is the last 6-8 weeksPross said:
My post on this got stuck at the bottom of the previous page but covered the US Surgeon General's thoughts on why it seems to impact more highly on ethnic minority groups. He suggests that it is possibly down to past poorer upbringings that have resulted in underlying health issues.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
Try telling that to the penniless single mother in her damp ridden flat in Deptford. Wonder if she felt her problems would be eased or worsened by having access to an unlimited pot of money, more properties than you know about and so many staff you have an Xmas party for them.rjsterry said:
Not sure how having a big house or staff means you are protected from mental health issues or why they shouldn't comment on them. Given that their dad has had C19, the palace is clearly not that safe.mr_goo said:Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.
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All jobs that can’t be done at home. We need to ask the Law Society for a breakdown of deaths by ethnicity.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
surrey_commuter said:
Try telling that to the penniless single mother in her damp ridden flat in Deptford. Wonder if she felt her problems would be eased or worsened by having access to an unlimited pot of money, more properties than you know about and so many staff you have an Xmas party for them.rjsterry said:
Not sure how having a big house or staff means you are protected from mental health issues or why they shouldn't comment on them. Given that their dad has had C19, the palace is clearly not that safe.mr_goo said:Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.
Being bitter about what other people have isn't going to help her mental health.You can fool some of the people all of the time. Concentrate on those people.2 -
Mental health issues can affect anyone though. I agree that it must be even harder for the person in your example but that doesn't make it an easy time for anyone no matter how rich or how big their house is. Take away that they are members of the royal family and do you think it is unreasonable for someone with the ability to get media attention to raise the issue of how the current situation might be impacting on people's mental health and the importance for people in those situations to continue talking to others?surrey_commuter said:
Try telling that to the penniless single mother in her damp ridden flat in Deptford. Wonder if she felt her problems would be eased or worsened by having access to an unlimited pot of money, more properties than you know about and so many staff you have an Xmas party for them.rjsterry said:
Not sure how having a big house or staff means you are protected from mental health issues or why they shouldn't comment on them. Given that their dad has had C19, the palace is clearly not that safe.mr_goo said:Getting very irritated by the Royal family, especially the Cambridges over their messages of empathy and concerns over mental well being. All from the safe confines of palaces and being waited on hand and foot.
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I got that impression too. I'm confused, so was Coops being woke, anti-woke or a new aged balanced state of woke?Pross said:
I don't think anyone on here has implied that to be fair. I just wasn't sure if Nick has seen the reply as it ended up on the bottom of a page. Ironically, the black Surgeon General was criticised by 'black health experts' whatever that means for not understanding the black community though.coopster_the_1st said:
Your response was correct, but usual pillocks just want to be able to scream and imply racism as they have not been able to indulge their usual wokeness is the last 6-8 weeksPross said:
My post on this got stuck at the bottom of the previous page but covered the US Surgeon General's thoughts on why it seems to impact more highly on ethnic minority groups. He suggests that it is possibly down to past poorer upbringings that have resulted in underlying health issues.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.0 -
Re-read DDRavers posts as that is exactly what he is implying...Pross said:
I don't think anyone on here has implied that to be fair. I just wasn't sure if Nick has seen the reply as it ended up on the bottom of a page. Ironically, the black Surgeon General was criticised by 'black health experts' whatever that means for not understanding the black community though.coopster_the_1st said:
Your response was correct, but usual pillocks just want to be able to scream and imply racism as they have not been able to indulge their usual wokeness is the last 6-8 weeksPross said:
My post on this got stuck at the bottom of the previous page but covered the US Surgeon General's thoughts on why it seems to impact more highly on ethnic minority groups. He suggests that it is possibly down to past poorer upbringings that have resulted in underlying health issues.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.
I'm surprised our resident mini Piers Morgan has not jumped in as well. Maybe he is anger is preoccupied with defending someone who would call a BBC journalist to track down the number of the Burberry Sales team.0 -
Rick you know what I think about the Govt’s continued response to this continued pandemic. However this bloke is part of the problem, he is going to run out of gowns tomorrow and he chooses to play games phoning the BBC.rjsterry said:
I think it was scepticism that the chap was genuinely tapping up the journalist for a Burberry contact as opposed to sending a not-very-coded message for PHE /central government to get it together. I don't think there is any real doubt that there are localised shortages even if overall provision is just about there. The distribution seems to be the problem.rick_chasey said:
I was trying to dig at why you were sceptical about the report? I just don't understand why you wouldn't want reports on where the UK is at, re kit. If there are shortages we ought to know, no?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
Right, so your think it's a BS story? And that there is enough kit?kingstonian said:rick_chasey said:
It's on the bbc radio news bulletin too now.surrey_commuter said:
Either that story does not pass the BS test or the supply chain is beyond fvcked.rick_chasey said:
How in the name of God could the best possible solution be for this chap to ring a BBC journo asking for a phone number?
Of course it is, because it was a BBC journalist that he allegedly called so the BBC have pumped the story around all their many news outlets.
Does strike me as being an individual looking to make a political statement. Quite frankly, if I ran a healthcare outlet and felt I needed to get in touch with a specific fashion company for PPE equipment, I think it would take me about 5 minutes on Google and a couple of phone calls to get in touch, I wouldn't be Googling the numbers of BBC journalists to do it.
I mean, if TWH had posted it and not me would you be less sceptical?
I first heard the story at about 7am this morning on BBC News, so whoever posted it on here is irrelevant.
Where do I say it is a BS story?
Where did I comment on whether there is or isn't enough kit?
You have an irritating trait of twisting posts to suit your own perspective. Please pack it up.
It seems clear to me the UK gov't is economical with what is shared, despite direct questioning.
Why did he not phone the manufacturers yesterday and driven up there in a van and collected himself? That way he could have applied pressure to the Govt and solved his immediate problem.
If nothing else we are learning how useless public administration is in this country1 -
Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-523129060 -
Which might be a good idea if we had sufficient supplies to ensure all key workers had as many as they needed and there were then enough left over to allow for this.focuszing723 said:Sadiq Khan calling for enforced face masks on the tube/public transport? now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-523129060 -
Blimey. My point was that there doesn't have to be one single reason. We already know that there are multiple risk factors. Some of them are bound to correlate more with certain sections of the population than others. Not sure why you are so keen to argue that it's not related to socio-economic factors when neither of us really has a clue. Nor why Coopster thinks someone is "screaming" about racism.nickice said:
Your argument only works if we're asking why are so many ethnic minorities are dying in general. If the answer is because they work in low-level jobs and are likely to be exposed more, then that's fair enough. However, it's impossible to make that argument for doctors and even nurses.rjsterry said:
Ethnic minority care workers, nurses and healthcare assistants (auxiliary nurses) might well be though. Ditto bus drivers 18 dead out of 6000 in London.nickice said:
Ethnic minority doctors are not poor and are not in low level positions.rjsterry said:
None of those suggestions are mutually exclusive.nickice said:
Right so I see you were coming at this from a position of not actually having looked at the breakdown of which healthcare workers have died in the UK. A quick example: all the doctors were from ethnic minorities.ddraver said:More Poor people are black
Poor people are more exposed as they clean up after 'dem white people...
But, talking about the USA, there are far higher rates of, for example, diabetes amongst black Americans and Indian Americans.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
