The big Coronavirus thread

briantrumpet

ddraver said:

I suspect the biggest issue is that no one is going to go and buy a test now...

That too. Fortuntely I know a teacher who was in charge of doling out the free tests before they were axed, but before her stock was depleted.

briantrumpet

Actually, I'd forgotten ZOE - that might be more responsive, as it relies on a large network of self-reporting.

https://health-study.joinzoe.com/data#levels-over-time

briantrumpet

Yeah, this is a good update from Zoe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQp3Yc82ak

ddraver

He is the sort of man who should be in government but never will be because he actually knows what he's talking about...

jimmyjams

ugo.santalucia said:

jimmyjams said:

pblakeney said:

veronese68 said:

pblakeney said:

veronese68 said:

pblakeney said:

Rising cases all over the place. Less serious symptoms but none I wish to get.
I have a feeling that my holiday in Italy may not be as simple as hoped for. 🤬

I'm in Italy now, no restrictions on the public currently. But shop and restaurant staff have been asked to wear masks again, but not mandatory I believe. Numbers are on the up as you say.

Strange. I am going in two weeks and read that FFP2 masks are mandatory on public transport and recommended in public indoor places.

We drove so not much experience of public transport, I'll try to find out. The lad flew back last Friday and most people weren't wearing masks in the airport when we dropped him off, although he had one to use if he wanted it. Says he wore it was crowded once he'd cleared security.

It's a strange anomaly in their rules, no restrictions on flying. I see an airport as having as much of a potential as a bus station. Anyway, 🤞on getting in & out before it gets any worse.

The relaxation of rules at airports isn't specifically an Italian one, it came from the ECDC (European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control) about 5-6 weeks ago. The EDDC also decided masks are no longer needed on planes, but national governments can overrule this and have done, e.g. on planes flying to/from Italy and Germany (probably to/from other EU countries too) masks are required when on board a flight, except at meal time.

One thing neither you have mentioned is that 1 m social-distancing (except between members of the same household) is still required in Italy.
I would guess that is the reason why FFP2 mask-wearing is recommended in locations which may get crowded and it become hard to keep 1 m apart – supermarkets, restaurants (except when eating), popular museums and galleries, etc. And probably advisable in some areas of airports, from Veronese's lad's experience.

I spent three weeks in Italy in April, no such thing as 1 mt rule… not sure where you got that info

Hi Ugo, I wanted to respond earlier but other stuff got in the way.
I was due to drive to Italy on the weekend of 4 June, so naturally beforehand looked which rules existed there. As it happened, my trip was cancelled on 31 May, but by then I had already done the research.

It seemed that the Italian government had intended to cancel all mask-wearing and social-distancing as from the end of April (so social-distancing was actually still in effect during your visit in April, even if you didn't notice), however in the end, the Italian government drew back from full cancellation.
Mask-wearing was kept not just for health/care facilities and on public transport (as still the mandate) but also kept for certain other venues (till 15 June) - cinemas, theatres, concert halls, sports arenas, schools and universities as well as restaurants/bars (when not dining) and hairdressing/beauty salons. Museums, galleries, and churches were allowed to impose a mask requirement if they wished.

I could find no official statements about social-distancing after the end of April, but what I did find were several websites which said it still applied at the end of May (and which still say it applies even now), e.g. the ADAC, CNN and US Embassy websites.
The CNN website states “Social distancing restrictions remain in place, including on public transport“ (pointing out this also means in taxis), while the US Embassy website states “Italian police can impose monetary sanctions for non-compliance with Italian anti-COVID-19 measures regarding social distancing“. A couple of travel websites still advise wearing a mask if “not able to maintain social distancing“, for example in shops, thus implying there is still a social distancing rule.

My conclusion was that wherever masks were still required, or advised, into June, then social distancing is still obligatory - so at the locations I list above.
(Degree of compliance is something else of course, as Veronese reported re wearing of masks on trains and buses).

pblakeney

^^^^ I checked as I am going soon and the rules were extended until September. ^^^^
(Italy only)

photonic69

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

First.Aspect

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

Bleach.

kingstongraham

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

More importantly, what download speeds are you getting?

veronese68

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

5th!?! Bloody hell, I thought i was doing well to have just had my 4th. I've now had 3 Pfizer and 1 Moderna. not tried the AZ yet.
Bit of hassle getting the most recent, I'm on a priority list having had a lymphoma about 15years ago. Apparently any history of lymphoma or leukaemia puts you on the list. Busy body supervisor grilled me on why i was there, showed her the text from my GP saying i should book in to have it. Asked more questions before deciding I shouldn't be on the list. Told her I'd spoken to my GP the previous day and he confirmed I should be on the list and should book in to have it. She insisted he was wrong and went to get the duty doctor to explain it to me. Duty doctor told her she was wrong before she'd even finished her first sentence.

rick_chasey

Yikes just give the man the jab already.

mrb123

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

Sputnik 5

ugo.santalucia

mrb123 said:

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

Sputnik 5

too late for that... shame!

photonic69

mrb123 said:

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

Sputnik 5

Yes, the Great Putinator jab!

Ummmm,... think I'll pass.

photonic69

veronese68 said:

photonic69 said:

5th Jab jabbed. That makes 2x AZ; 1x Pfizer; 2x Moderna.

Which ones am I missing for a full set?

5th!?! Bloody hell, I thought i was doing well to have just had my 4th. I've now had 3 Pfizer and 1 Moderna. not tried the AZ yet.
Bit of hassle getting the most recent, I'm on a priority list having had a lymphoma about 15years ago. Apparently any history of lymphoma or leukaemia puts you on the list. Busy body supervisor grilled me on why i was there, showed her the text from my GP saying i should book in to have it. Asked more questions before deciding I shouldn't be on the list. Told her I'd spoken to my GP the previous day and he confirmed I should be on the list and should book in to have it. She insisted he was wrong and went to get the duty doctor to explain it to me. Duty doctor told her she was wrong before she'd even finished her first sentence.

Jeeez! Seems like they are over protective of their jab stocks!!

I just had a text a few weeks back to get it done. I couldn't at the time as I was too busy at work. Then as cases rose I got another text reminding me to do it so I thought 'feck work' I'll just book the next available slot at the nearest place to me which happened to be a Chemist just down the road from me. Booked. Jabbed. Done. I'm on immune supressing drugs hence my vulnerable case.

ugo.santalucia

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

briantrumpet

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

"Got all the big calls right."

surrey_commuter

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

Would be great to see the excess death charts to see if many of them were “taken early” so deaths should now be low

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

Would be great to see the excess death charts to see if many of them were “taken early” so deaths should now be low

Also, the different ways of counting deaths will start to diverge, so the died within 28 days of a covid test stat may be much larger than excess deaths. We @kingstongraham to crunch the numbers.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

Would be great to see the excess death charts to see if many of them were “taken early” so deaths should now be low

Also, the different ways of counting deaths will start to diverge, so the died within 28 days of a covid test stat may be much larger than excess deaths. We @kingstongraham to crunch the numbers.

agree ( ) that there are so many positive and negative factors that excess deaths are the only way of getting a true picture.

I can't decide if I think 200,000 over 2.5 years is a big or small number

surrey_commuter

this is pretty cool -about a quarter of the way down there is a chart you can play with.
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Not sure what it is telling me other than the UK is living up to Boris's hyperbole of having a world beating Covid performance as measured by excess deaths

ugo.santalucia

7 billion people, an estimate of 20 million deaths (a lot are unaccounted), roughly 0.3% of the world population.
In the UK 67 million people and 180K deaths, so roughly 0.27% of the population... about the same... but spending a lot more than average and vaccinating a lot more than average, so I would call it a pretty poor performance

Jezyboy

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

Would be great to see the excess death charts to see if many of them were “taken early” so deaths should now be low

Also, the different ways of counting deaths will start to diverge, so the died within 28 days of a covid test stat may be much larger than excess deaths. We @kingstongraham to crunch the numbers.

agree ( ) that there are so many positive and negative factors that excess deaths are the only way of getting a true picture.

I can't decide if I think 200,000 over 2.5 years is a big or small number

It's a reasonable number in comparison with total deaths per single non pandemic year.

Wikipedia reckons 250,000 died of the Spanish Flu in the UK.

ugo.santalucia

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

Would be great to see the excess death charts to see if many of them were “taken early” so deaths should now be low

Also, the different ways of counting deaths will start to diverge, so the died within 28 days of a covid test stat may be much larger than excess deaths. We @kingstongraham to crunch the numbers.

agree ( ) that there are so many positive and negative factors that excess deaths are the only way of getting a true picture.

I can't decide if I think 200,000 over 2.5 years is a big or small number

It's a reasonable number in comparison with total deaths per single non pandemic year.

Wikipedia reckons 250,000 died of the Spanish Flu in the UK.

Yeahbbut, no vaccines, no NHS... basically we spent billions to perform in a similar way to 100 years earlier

shirley_basso

Well the population was much smaller, so as a % likely much higher.

First.Aspect

ugo.santalucia said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Read somewhere we passed the 200K deaths milestone... that's quite some number!

Would be great to see the excess death charts to see if many of them were “taken early” so deaths should now be low

Also, the different ways of counting deaths will start to diverge, so the died within 28 days of a covid test stat may be much larger than excess deaths. We @kingstongraham to crunch the numbers.

agree ( ) that there are so many positive and negative factors that excess deaths are the only way of getting a true picture.

I can't decide if I think 200,000 over 2.5 years is a big or small number

It's a reasonable number in comparison with total deaths per single non pandemic year.

Wikipedia reckons 250,000 died of the Spanish Flu in the UK.

Yeahbbut, no vaccines, no NHS... basically we spent billions to perform in a similar way to 100 years earlier

You give scientists a bad name sometimes. Your definition of "similar" is a factor of 5.

It is a spurious comparison anyway, between entirely unrelated pathogens.

Jezyboy

Meh, the point is it's the obvious other big pandemic, so I think it's valid to thinks about when trying to judge the seriousness of the past 2.5 years.

Agree that it's not worthwhile to use it as some kind of guidance on performance though.

mrb123

The estimated figures for the worldwide death toll if there'd been no vaccines are pretty eye watering.

ugo.santalucia

mrb123 said:

The estimated figures for the worldwide death toll if there'd been no vaccines are pretty eye watering.

And yet, I suspect that the image of Astra Zeneca as a company has been damaged by the vaccine... can't please them

ddraver

Meh, It had been and gone before I had mine...