The big Coronavirus thread

First.Aspect

ballysmate said:

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You aren't on the right side of this argument. And you probably know it.

I am quite aware that I am in a minority of 1 and perhaps my view is out dated. Not wanting to sous all "when I were a lad..."
But
When I started work in order to "phone in sick" you had to walk to the phone box up the road and the general feeling was that if you were capable of that, you were probably capable of getting into work.
A totally outdated iew now, I accept.

But the general idea that is is standard practice to phone in sick with an illness that will not affect your performance in case you pass it on to a colleague who will as a result, suffer no loss in performance, quite odd.

It's not no loss in performance though is it. It is a reduction, just not to zero.

pblakeney

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

First.Aspect

focuszing723 said:

Is there an argument for people not being too prissy about things? Having a strong immune system as a result of everyday living is a good thing.

So hang on, you want to get lots of colds so that you can catch slightly less severe colds, often?

focuszing723

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

It's difficult for people to achieve that if they have kids.

pblakeney

focuszing723 said:

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

It's difficult for people to achieve that if they have kids.

Not all workers have children.
Contractors with children must have stronger immune systems.

*Pet hate. Kids are young goats.

Jezyboy

Contractors bringing in illness. Just another way they are bad for salaried employees.

focuszing723

First.Aspect said:

focuszing723 said:

Is there an argument for people not being too prissy about things? Having a strong immune system as a result of everyday living is a good thing.

So hang on, you want to get lots of colds so that you can catch slightly less severe colds, often?

No, If you are fit and healthy, just live normally and let hundreds of thousands of years of evolution do its job.

ballysmate

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You aren't on the right side of this argument. And you probably know it.

I am quite aware that I am in a minority of 1 and perhaps my view is out dated. Not wanting to sous all "when I were a lad..."
But
When I started work in order to "phone in sick" you had to walk to the phone box up the road and the general feeling was that if you were capable of that, you were probably capable of getting into work.
A totally outdated iew now, I accept.

But the general idea that is is standard practice to phone in sick with an illness that will not affect your performance in case you pass it on to a colleague who will as a result, suffer no loss in performance, quite odd.

It's not no loss in performance though is it. It is a reduction, just not to zero.

As I said to Brian, a cold will affect some workers more than others. eg Trumpet players. And you wouldn't want the surgeon dripping snot into your open chest cavity would you.
But for the majority of people there is not much loss in performance is there? If you are office based, do you read or type more slowly? If you are a warehouse worker can you not operate a fork lift? If you are a driver, do you lose some ability to drive?

First.Aspect

focuszing723 said:

First.Aspect said:

focuszing723 said:

Is there an argument for people not being too prissy about things? Having a strong immune system as a result of everyday living is a good thing.

So hang on, you want to get lots of colds so that you can catch slightly less severe colds, often?

No, If you are fit and healthy, just live normally and let hundreds of thousands of years of evolution do its job.

The biggest evolutionary development in that time has been to the brain.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You're now just inventing things, which is a bit silly. The strawiest of straw men.

rick_chasey

Bally do you still work?

ballysmate

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

And that comes as a shock to absolutely nobody who has spent a long period in the workplace. Certainly in line with my experiences.
Sticking my neck out here, but I wonder how many people on here who advocate staying off work with a cold are salaried or get full pay whilst off sick.

blazing_saddles

First.Aspect said:

400k infections in France.

Closer to 500,000 yesterday and today is the 4th consecutive day over 400,000.

The bad news is that tomorrow they will almost certainly overtake the UK in the Covid Olympics league table.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

And that comes as a shock to absolutely nobody who has spent a long period in the workplace. Certainly in line with my experiences.
Sticking my neck out here, but I wonder how many people on here who advocate staying off work with a cold are salaried or get full pay whilst off sick.

Three days then statutory sick pay.

First.Aspect

ballysmate said:

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

And that comes as a shock to absolutely nobody who has spent a long period in the workplace. Certainly in line with my experiences.
Sticking my neck out here, but I wonder how many people on here who advocate staying off work with a cold are salaried or get full pay whilst off sick.

Aren't people advocating wfh when sick, to the extent possible?

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You're now just inventing things, which is a bit silly. The strawiest of straw men.

Not inventing anything. Just musing why your company loses so many man hours to the common cold.
I assume you must have given it some thought as it must impact significantly on your business.

pangolin

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

And that comes as a shock to absolutely nobody who has spent a long period in the workplace. Certainly in line with my experiences.
Sticking my neck out here, but I wonder how many people on here who advocate staying off work with a cold are salaried or get full pay whilst off sick.

Aren't people advocating wfh when sick, to the extent possible?

Yes, Bally is deliberately conflating the 2 in order to argue with... nobody as far as I can tell.

First.Aspect

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You're now just inventing things, which is a bit silly. The strawiest of straw men.

Not inventing anything. Just musing why your company loses so many man hours to the common cold.
I assume you must have given it some thought as it must impact significantly on your business.

What are your thoughts on people in hospitality, care or medical settings going to work with a wee sniffle?

Man up?

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

pblakeney said:

It's a small sample admittedly, but over a long period, and many companies.
Those who get sick pay catch colds much more than those who receive no sick pay.

I estimate I have had a cold 3 times in the past 15 years. Cos I avoid the contagious since I won't get paid. This is based on pre wfh being a norm.

And that comes as a shock to absolutely nobody who has spent a long period in the workplace. Certainly in line with my experiences.
Sticking my neck out here, but I wonder how many people on here who advocate staying off work with a cold are salaried or get full pay whilst off sick.

Aren't people advocating wfh when sick, to the extent possible?

Yes, and I don't know why it should be controversial. If I have a streaming cold but feel up to teaching, I'd get my pupils to turn up to my room in school and I'd stay at home teaching via Zoom. And if they are streaming but feel well enough to have lesson, they can dial in via Zoom for one lesson.

And if one or other party feels too ill to do this learning thing, then they'll be at home out of necessity.

Or we could just pretend a pandemic hasn't been going on for the past two years, and that there aren't easy ways not to infect other people.

pblakeney

Jezyboy said:

Contractors bringing in illness. Just another way they are bad for salaried employees.

You have missed my point, or I didn't make it clear.
Contractors get ill less often in the first place.
WFH is manna for contractors. I know one who got a laptop taken into hospital so he could keep working from his bed (foot injury, not virus related).

pangolin

pblakeney said:

Jezyboy said:

Contractors bringing in illness. Just another way they are bad for salaried employees.

You have missed my point, or I didn't make it clear.
Contractors get ill less often in the first place.
WFH is manna for contractors. I know one who got a laptop taken into hospital so he could keep working from his bed (foot injury, not virus related).

In my experience they just keep coming in with a streaming cold.

pangolin

ballysmate said:

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You aren't on the right side of this argument. And you probably know it.

I am quite aware that I am in a minority of 1 and perhaps my view is out dated. Not wanting to sous all "when I were a lad..."
But
When I started work in order to "phone in sick" you had to walk to the phone box up the road and the general feeling was that if you were capable of that, you were probably capable of getting into work.
A totally outdated iew now, I accept.

But the general idea that is is standard practice to phone in sick with an illness that will not affect your performance in case you pass it on to a colleague who will as a result, suffer no loss in performance, quite odd.

It's not no loss in performance though is it. It is a reduction, just not to zero.

As I said to Brian, a cold will affect some workers more than others. eg Trumpet players. And you wouldn't want the surgeon dripping snot into your open chest cavity would you.
But for the majority of people there is not much loss in performance is there? If you are office based, do you read or type more slowly? If you are a warehouse worker can you not operate a fork lift? If you are a driver, do you lose some ability to drive?

Of course a cold affects your performance. If you've got anything more than a really minor runny nose, and you're still at peak performance, perhaps it's not much of a peak.

ballysmate

rick_chasey said:

Bally do you still work?

rick_chasey said:

Bally do you still work?

Actually i do work part time for, well 'pin money' is the wrong term, but you get the idea. A few hours a week in a supermarket putting stuff on shelves. Keeps me active and I enjoy the craic with people. And I suppose your attitude to work is different when you know that you don't have to do it and can jack at any time. When they are looking to save hours, I volunteer to finish early.
But even in this job, I would feel embarrassed to phone in sick with a cold.

ballysmate

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

rjsterry said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You're now just inventing things, which is a bit silly. The strawiest of straw men.

Not inventing anything. Just musing why your company loses so many man hours to the common cold.
I assume you must have given it some thought as it must impact significantly on your business.

What are your thoughts on people in hospitality, care or medical settings going to work with a wee sniffle?

Man up?

Did you not read my post when I gave examples where you wouldn't want someone with a cold at work? I specifically gave a medical one.

ballysmate

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

Jezyboy said:

Contractors bringing in illness. Just another way they are bad for salaried employees.

You have missed my point, or I didn't make it clear.
Contractors get ill less often in the first place.
WFH is manna for contractors. I know one who got a laptop taken into hospital so he could keep working from his bed (foot injury, not virus related).

In my experience they just keep coming in with a streaming cold.

Possibly because they don't have the luxury of getting full pay whilst sat at home.

shirley_basso

You're clearly deliberately missing the point that people would wfh where possible.

Unsure why it's taking so long to get the point across.

First.Aspect

ballysmate said:

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

Jezyboy said:

Contractors bringing in illness. Just another way they are bad for salaried employees.

You have missed my point, or I didn't make it clear.
Contractors get ill less often in the first place.
WFH is manna for contractors. I know one who got a laptop taken into hospital so he could keep working from his bed (foot injury, not virus related).

In my experience they just keep coming in with a streaming cold.

Possibly because they don't have the luxury of getting full pay whilst sat at home.

It is true to say that there is an element of mondayitis and Friday syndrome in certain office roles. But you know in many jobs the work doesn't vanish if you are off sick, it just piles up. So people tend to carry on working, from home if allowed, because it's easier.

pblakeney

pangolin said:

pblakeney said:

Jezyboy said:

Contractors bringing in illness. Just another way they are bad for salaried employees.

You have missed my point, or I didn't make it clear.
Contractors get ill less often in the first place.
WFH is manna for contractors. I know one who got a laptop taken into hospital so he could keep working from his bed (foot injury, not virus related).

In my experience they just keep coming in with a streaming cold.

No doubt that happens. Personally I took a day or 2 off so it wouldn't get worse and require a week + off. Generally speaking, sickness happens to others.
Flip side is those looking at their sick pay with full pay for 14 weeks per annum and maxing that out. Every year. Yes, true story.

ballysmate

shirley_basso said:

You're clearly deliberately missing the point that people would wfh where possible.

Unsure why it's taking so long to get the point across.

You obviously missed my post to Brian when I said that was an option for some.
But wfh is not phoning in sick is it? Wfh is a way of mitigating the chance of passing your cold on and is certainly not an option for everyone.
My initial post was regarding people taking time off due to a cold. Wfh is not taking time off. Or is it?

Mad_Malx

ballysmate said:

First.Aspect said:

ballysmate said:

I accept that some colds are heavier than others, but most are not debilitating are they?
Rjs' workforce must be particularly unlucky as not only do they seem to be susceptible to any cold virus, but all seem to get the most debilitating symptoms.
If we don't want to be exposed to viruses we would have to live in hermetically sealed units. We are talking about the common cold here, not Ebola.

You aren't on the right side of this argument. And you probably know it.

I am quite aware that I am in a minority of 1 and perhaps my view is out dated. Not wanting to sound all "when I were a lad..."
But
When I started work in order to "phone in sick" you had to walk to the phone box up the road and the general feeling was that if you were capable of that, you were probably capable of getting into work.
A totally outdated view now, I accept.

But the general idea that is is standard practice to phone in sick with an illness that will not affect your performance in case you pass it on to a colleague who would as a result, suffer no loss in performance, quite odd.

OT: I remember struggling to a garage payphone to phone in sick with a bout of food poisoning from dodgy takeaway the night before. By the time I got to the box the bug had decided to take the rear exit .