The big Coronavirus thread

pangolin

rick_chasey said:

Yeah.

I guess we know the cost of lockdowns etc much more than we did in 2020 and there's a view to be taken.

They also have to factor in how many people will just laugh at Boris telling them to behave over Christmas this time around right?

rick_chasey

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Yeah.

I guess we know the cost of lockdowns etc much more than we did in 2020 and there's a view to be taken.

They also have to factor in how many people will just laugh at Boris telling them to behave over Christmas this time around right?

Sure, though i am of the view that when you get Bergamo style hospital crises across the UK compliance will be pretty high.

kingstongraham

I've followed Chris Whitty's advice and deprioritised my work Christmas party.

pangolin

rick_chasey said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Yeah.

I guess we know the cost of lockdowns etc much more than we did in 2020 and there's a view to be taken.

They also have to factor in how many people will just laugh at Boris telling them to behave over Christmas this time around right?

Sure, though i am of the view that when you get Bergamo style hospital crises across the UK compliance will be pretty high.

I'm hopeful that all the moaning from hospitality about everyone cancelling their reservations is indicative of this happening already without further government intervention. Hard to tell if it's enough to make a difference obviously.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1471490003804954644?s=20

If this is fairly accurate then I am over-exaggerating the danger.

First.Aspect

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

88,376 new cases today.

That's almost encouraging vs the 78k the day before.

And yet in total, officially there have been 10k omicron cases. Very clearly there have been about 20-30k in each of the last two days, to account for the sudden jump,

First.Aspect

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstonian said:

Mad_Malx said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pblakeney said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Moderna has the best efficacy vs omicron.

It is marginal. More about the data available at the time than anything else.

Third jab reactions are likely proportionate to the strength and speed of the immune response.

Anecdotally, moderna has generated more side effects than any of the other jabs > a brother in law was in bed for 3 days after it (though he is also a massive pansy).

I know that you will not have meant to intentionally use a gay slur so see me as helpfully advising you not to use the term "pansy" in polite company

I knew that a) most people saw this b) most people thought, alright, but meh and c) someone would be outraged d) someone would virtue signal.

in case you are accusing me of virtue signalling, I will reiterate that I would be surprised if Rick knew it was offesive so I was looking to save him from using it in a setting that would be detrimental to him

I must admit I wouldn't have associated pansy with gay like that - more something akin to calling someone soft or nesh.

Fair enough raising the issue though would not want to cause offence unknowingly.

We now know how and when to use it.

Yes. Must admit I don't think it's a word I've used but more because I don't like implying being overtly macho/tough or whatever is something to aspire to.

I'd probably use nesh - susceptible to the cold.

I haven't heard nesh since I left the east midlands, 40 years ago.

I’d never heard it before

Are we allowed to use "fey" these days?

I bet we aren't.

Well, I'm old enough to remember gay meaning happy so who knows?

Edit - Googled. Nothing untoward against fey. Yet.

And yet I can't see why, if its more or less synonymous with something that's not acceptable. That was my point really. If you just change the word because the old word is stigmatised, where does it get you?

Now, back to pansy.

Here's why I think the faux outrage on behalf of a group you aren't a member of is problematic. If you associate "pansy" with being, shall we say effeminate, and in turn with homosexuality, its a problem. The problem is that the link was established in the first place. I'm genuinely not sure whether any of the gay people I know would be offended by RC's use of the term, or offended because someone else explained to RC that a generation ago people like Bernard Manning used it to refer to gay people and that they still associate that word with their group.

orraloon

I quite like a pansy, partic the winter flowering types.

Jezyboy

First.Aspect said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

88,376 new cases today.

That's almost encouraging vs the 78k the day before.

And yet in total, officially there have been 10k omicron cases. Very clearly there have been about 20-30k in each of the last two days, to account for the sudden jump,

Does it take extra time to do the sequencing bit? Or is it just that only a percentage get sequenced and the calc to extrapolate to total number of cases isn't great.

pangolin

First.Aspect said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

88,376 new cases today.

That's almost encouraging vs the 78k the day before.

And yet in total, officially there have been 10k omicron cases. Very clearly there have been about 20-30k in each of the last two days, to account for the sudden jump,

Sorry not following this

kingstongraham

pangolin said:

First.Aspect said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

88,376 new cases today.

That's almost encouraging vs the 78k the day before.

And yet in total, officially there have been 10k omicron cases. Very clearly there have been about 20-30k in each of the last two days, to account for the sudden jump,

Sorry not following this

Most of the increase in new cases must be Omicron.

Jezyboy

rick_chasey said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Yeah.

I guess we know the cost of lockdowns etc much more than we did in 2020 and there's a view to be taken.

They also have to factor in how many people will just laugh at Boris telling them to behave over Christmas this time around right?

Sure, though i am of the view that when you get Bergamo style hospital crises across the UK compliance will be pretty high.

But to get that style crisis in a population with lots of covid anti bodies, you have to be waaaaay up on the case numbers curve... By which time, omicron is running out of victims.

First.Aspect

pangolin said:

First.Aspect said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

88,376 new cases today.

That's almost encouraging vs the 78k the day before.

And yet in total, officially there have been 10k omicron cases. Very clearly there have been about 20-30k in each of the last two days, to account for the sudden jump,

Sorry not following this

Let me flip it around. We were on a steady but not precipitous increase in Delta variant cases up until a week ago. Do you think the sudden spike in total numbers from around 40-50k to around 80-90k is due to (a) delta or (b) omicron?

Clearly, it's (b). And yet, despite there being around 70k additional cases all of a sudden, officially only 10k omicron cases have been detected in total across the UK.

mully79

1.2million tests per day average last 7 days (1.6 million yesterday?)
800000 tests per day average a month back

surrey_commuter

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstonian said:

Mad_Malx said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pblakeney said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Moderna has the best efficacy vs omicron.

It is marginal. More about the data available at the time than anything else.

Third jab reactions are likely proportionate to the strength and speed of the immune response.

Anecdotally, moderna has generated more side effects than any of the other jabs > a brother in law was in bed for 3 days after it (though he is also a massive pansy).

I know that you will not have meant to intentionally use a gay slur so see me as helpfully advising you not to use the term "pansy" in polite company

I knew that a) most people saw this b) most people thought, alright, but meh and c) someone would be outraged d) someone would virtue signal.

in case you are accusing me of virtue signalling, I will reiterate that I would be surprised if Rick knew it was offesive so I was looking to save him from using it in a setting that would be detrimental to him

I must admit I wouldn't have associated pansy with gay like that - more something akin to calling someone soft or nesh.

Fair enough raising the issue though would not want to cause offence unknowingly.

We now know how and when to use it.

Yes. Must admit I don't think it's a word I've used but more because I don't like implying being overtly macho/tough or whatever is something to aspire to.

I'd probably use nesh - susceptible to the cold.

I haven't heard nesh since I left the east midlands, 40 years ago.

I’d never heard it before

Are we allowed to use "fey" these days?

I bet we aren't.

Well, I'm old enough to remember gay meaning happy so who knows?

Edit - Googled. Nothing untoward against fey. Yet.

And yet I can't see why, if its more or less synonymous with something that's not acceptable. That was my point really. If you just change the word because the old word is stigmatised, where does it get you?

Now, back to pansy.

Here's why I think the faux outrage on behalf of a group you aren't a member of is problematic. If you associate "pansy" with being, shall we say effeminate, and in turn with homosexuality, its a problem. The problem is that the link was established in the first place. I'm genuinely not sure whether any of the gay people I know would be offended by RC's use of the term, or offended because someone else explained to RC that a generation ago people like Bernard Manning used it to refer to gay people and that they still associate that word with their group.

It is interesting that here there has been a lack of faux outrage as it is seen as an innocent mistake whereas there are examples of (usually) elderley people in public life making similar "mistakes" and being hounded from public life.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstonian said:

Mad_Malx said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pblakeney said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Moderna has the best efficacy vs omicron.

It is marginal. More about the data available at the time than anything else.

Third jab reactions are likely proportionate to the strength and speed of the immune response.

Anecdotally, moderna has generated more side effects than any of the other jabs > a brother in law was in bed for 3 days after it (though he is also a massive pansy).

I know that you will not have meant to intentionally use a gay slur so see me as helpfully advising you not to use the term "pansy" in polite company

I knew that a) most people saw this b) most people thought, alright, but meh and c) someone would be outraged d) someone would virtue signal.

in case you are accusing me of virtue signalling, I will reiterate that I would be surprised if Rick knew it was offesive so I was looking to save him from using it in a setting that would be detrimental to him

I must admit I wouldn't have associated pansy with gay like that - more something akin to calling someone soft or nesh.

Fair enough raising the issue though would not want to cause offence unknowingly.

We now know how and when to use it.

Yes. Must admit I don't think it's a word I've used but more because I don't like implying being overtly macho/tough or whatever is something to aspire to.

I'd probably use nesh - susceptible to the cold.

I haven't heard nesh since I left the east midlands, 40 years ago.

I’d never heard it before

Are we allowed to use "fey" these days?

I bet we aren't.

Well, I'm old enough to remember gay meaning happy so who knows?

Edit - Googled. Nothing untoward against fey. Yet.

And yet I can't see why, if its more or less synonymous with something that's not acceptable. That was my point really. If you just change the word because the old word is stigmatised, where does it get you?

Now, back to pansy.

Here's why I think the faux outrage on behalf of a group you aren't a member of is problematic. If you associate "pansy" with being, shall we say effeminate, and in turn with homosexuality, its a problem. The problem is that the link was established in the first place. I'm genuinely not sure whether any of the gay people I know would be offended by RC's use of the term, or offended because someone else explained to RC that a generation ago people like Bernard Manning used it to refer to gay people and that they still associate that word with their group.

Some words are pejorative some aren't. Some there is dispute over. For example, negro is considered pejorative by most, but I think the US still includes it on its census, because some people identify with it.

Here is a dictionary definition of pansy. It seems fairly clear.

pan·sy (păn′zē)
n. pl. pan·sies
1. Any of various plants of the genus Viola, especially V. tricolor or its hybrids, widely cultivated for their flowers with velvety petals of various colors.
2. A deep to strong violet.
3. Offensive Slang
a. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a gay man.

pangolin

First.Aspect said:

pangolin said:

First.Aspect said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

88,376 new cases today.

That's almost encouraging vs the 78k the day before.

And yet in total, officially there have been 10k omicron cases. Very clearly there have been about 20-30k in each of the last two days, to account for the sudden jump,

Sorry not following this

Let me flip it around. We were on a steady but not precipitous increase in Delta variant cases up until a week ago. Do you think the sudden spike in total numbers from around 40-50k to around 80-90k is due to (a) delta or (b) omicron?

Clearly, it's (b). And yet, despite there being around 70k additional cases all of a sudden, officially only 10k omicron cases have been detected in total across the UK.

Ok sure. I more meant that the jump from 78k new cases to 88k new cases was encouraging as its not following an exponential curve. Can't read much into 1 day though.

photonic69

mully79 said:

1.2million tests per day average last 7 days (1.6 million yesterday?)
800000 tests per day average a month back

And I'm still waiting for a test result too - Monday's PCR was inconclusive. Wednesday's retake is still to be announced, so whatever today's figure, or tomorrow's then you might be able to add +1 to it. Here's really hoping it's not!

mully79

There seems to always be the narrative to ensure we're all frightened so that we do what we're told.

1.6 million test =80,000 positives which could be argued is the same as 800000 tests = 40,000 positives from a month ago.
Of course, are more people getting it so are being tested driving up the numbers or is the fear/government increasing surveilance driving people to get tested so theyre finding more off it.

Truth is probably halfway between. Not going to panic yet though im sure they'll get us through the 100,000 cases barrier to force restrictions before the danger is actually known.

Pross

pangolin said:

webboo said:

pangolin said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pangolin said:

mrb123 said:

blazing_saddles said:

pangolin said:

Feel absolutely rough. Wonder why the flu vax never has this effect.

I wondered the same thing. I felt terrible for several days, after my booster too.
I was told that a lot more folks have been reporting side effects after number 3 jab, than after 1 and 2.

My reaction has been more similar to my first jab than my second. Wondering if it's due to the booster being a different type of vaccine.

Hmm maybe, I've had moderna for all 3

I had Moderna yesterday at a walk in - don't feel awful but have a bit of a headache, arm is a bit tender, felt weak yesterday went I went to the shop .

First two were AZ and felt fine with those.

My arm really hurts this time. Maybe I got unlucky with the nurse. Is it a myth that arm soreness is down to the skill of the jabber? What do they do differently?

I'll stop whining now.

The technique is to hold the syringe like a dart, then a quick jab to get through the skin. Which is the area with nerves and the bit that hurts. However if you are a bit of a wuss and don’t like injections or faint at the sight of a needle. You may be rather tense and holding your self so your muscles are rigid. These is likely to lead to soreness in your arm.

Nah I don't mind them. I give blood and that's a real needle.

Try a lympocyte transfusion, they're like knitting needles. Not fun when the nurse misses a vein and has to try again!

Really hoping the third jab doesn't affect me much as having it on the evening of 23rd. I was tired after the first, second hit muscle and hurt but other than that I was fine. Pfizer for the first two and I suspect for the third as well.

pangolin

Felt much better by mid afternoon so only ~9 hours feeling really rough.

webboo

Pross said:

pangolin said:

webboo said:

pangolin said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pangolin said:

mrb123 said:

blazing_saddles said:

pangolin said:

Feel absolutely rough. Wonder why the flu vax never has this effect.

I wondered the same thing. I felt terrible for several days, after my booster too.
I was told that a lot more folks have been reporting side effects after number 3 jab, than after 1 and 2.

My reaction has been more similar to my first jab than my second. Wondering if it's due to the booster being a different type of vaccine.

Hmm maybe, I've had moderna for all 3

I had Moderna yesterday at a walk in - don't feel awful but have a bit of a headache, arm is a bit tender, felt weak yesterday went I went to the shop .

First two were AZ and felt fine with those.

My arm really hurts this time. Maybe I got unlucky with the nurse. Is it a myth that arm soreness is down to the skill of the jabber? What do they do differently?

I'll stop whining now.

The technique is to hold the syringe like a dart, then a quick jab to get through the skin. Which is the area with nerves and the bit that hurts. However if you are a bit of a wuss and don’t like injections or faint at the sight of a needle. You may be rather tense and holding your self so your muscles are rigid. These is likely to lead to soreness in your arm.

Nah I don't mind them. I give blood and that's a real needle.

Try a lympocyte transfusion, they're like knitting needles. Not fun when the nurse misses a vein and has to try again!

Really hoping the third jab doesn't affect me much as having it on the evening of 23rd. I was tired after the first, second hit muscle and hurt but other than that I was fine. Pfizer for the first two and I suspect for the third as well.

I would be going back and asking them to do the first one again as the injections are supposed to be an intramuscular injection.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstonian said:

Mad_Malx said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pblakeney said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Moderna has the best efficacy vs omicron.

It is marginal. More about the data available at the time than anything else.

Third jab reactions are likely proportionate to the strength and speed of the immune response.

Anecdotally, moderna has generated more side effects than any of the other jabs > a brother in law was in bed for 3 days after it (though he is also a massive pansy).

I know that you will not have meant to intentionally use a gay slur so see me as helpfully advising you not to use the term "pansy" in polite company

I knew that a) most people saw this b) most people thought, alright, but meh and c) someone would be outraged d) someone would virtue signal.

in case you are accusing me of virtue signalling, I will reiterate that I would be surprised if Rick knew it was offesive so I was looking to save him from using it in a setting that would be detrimental to him

I must admit I wouldn't have associated pansy with gay like that - more something akin to calling someone soft or nesh.

Fair enough raising the issue though would not want to cause offence unknowingly.

We now know how and when to use it.

Yes. Must admit I don't think it's a word I've used but more because I don't like implying being overtly macho/tough or whatever is something to aspire to.

I'd probably use nesh - susceptible to the cold.

I haven't heard nesh since I left the east midlands, 40 years ago.

I’d never heard it before

Are we allowed to use "fey" these days?

I bet we aren't.

Well, I'm old enough to remember gay meaning happy so who knows?

Edit - Googled. Nothing untoward against fey. Yet.

And yet I can't see why, if its more or less synonymous with something that's not acceptable. That was my point really. If you just change the word because the old word is stigmatised, where does it get you?

Now, back to pansy.

Here's why I think the faux outrage on behalf of a group you aren't a member of is problematic. If you associate "pansy" with being, shall we say effeminate, and in turn with homosexuality, its a problem. The problem is that the link was established in the first place. I'm genuinely not sure whether any of the gay people I know would be offended by RC's use of the term, or offended because someone else explained to RC that a generation ago people like Bernard Manning used it to refer to gay people and that they still associate that word with their group.

Some words are pejorative some aren't. Some there is dispute over. For example, negro is considered pejorative by most, but I think the US still includes it on its census, because some people identify with it.

Here is a dictionary definition of pansy. It seems fairly clear.

pan·sy (păn′zē)
n. pl. pan·sies
1. Any of various plants of the genus Viola, especially V. tricolor or its hybrids, widely cultivated for their flowers with velvety petals of various colors.
2. A deep to strong violet.
3. Offensive Slang
a. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a gay man.

Is 3a fine unless it's linked with 3b?

A world without any pejorative terms would be dull.

Btw, the definition uses "gay", which in my lifetime has gone from descriptive, to being hijacked to being a pejorative term, and back to being descriptive.

ddraver

So having bluffed a way to be here with a visa, drove down in my battered old car it looks like my farewell season/demi-season won't happen again anyway...

#FML

They're only "savings" I guess...

First.Aspect

Just found out what the 22% and 6% rates were - hospitalisation rates for over 65's pre vaccination, predominantly for Alpha, and post vaccination, predominantly for Delta.

orraloon

ddraver said:

So having bluffed a way to be here with a visa, drove down in my battered old car it looks like my farewell season/demi-season won't happen again anyway...

#FML

They're only "savings" I guess...

Kudos for getting the banger there.

With Brits cancelling en masse and being barred, will there be a corresponding uptake from French nationals, depending on what deals get offered?

briantrumpet

ddraver said:

So having bluffed a way to be here with a visa, drove down in my battered old car it looks like my farewell season/demi-season won't happen again anyway...

#FML

They're only "savings" I guess...

Oh bügger. Sorry to hear that. It's really rubbish timing.

ddraver

orraloon said:

With Brits cancelling en masse and being barred, will there be a corresponding uptake from French nationals, depending on what deals get offered?

I don't know. I don't know how many of our passengers are Brits but it's a high percentage...

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

pblakeney said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstonian said:

Mad_Malx said:

DeVlaeminck said:

pblakeney said:

DeVlaeminck said:

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Moderna has the best efficacy vs omicron.

It is marginal. More about the data available at the time than anything else.

Third jab reactions are likely proportionate to the strength and speed of the immune response.

Anecdotally, moderna has generated more side effects than any of the other jabs > a brother in law was in bed for 3 days after it (though he is also a massive pansy).

I know that you will not have meant to intentionally use a gay slur so see me as helpfully advising you not to use the term "pansy" in polite company

I knew that a) most people saw this b) most people thought, alright, but meh and c) someone would be outraged d) someone would virtue signal.

in case you are accusing me of virtue signalling, I will reiterate that I would be surprised if Rick knew it was offesive so I was looking to save him from using it in a setting that would be detrimental to him

I must admit I wouldn't have associated pansy with gay like that - more something akin to calling someone soft or nesh.

Fair enough raising the issue though would not want to cause offence unknowingly.

We now know how and when to use it.

Yes. Must admit I don't think it's a word I've used but more because I don't like implying being overtly macho/tough or whatever is something to aspire to.

I'd probably use nesh - susceptible to the cold.

I haven't heard nesh since I left the east midlands, 40 years ago.

I’d never heard it before

Are we allowed to use "fey" these days?

I bet we aren't.

Well, I'm old enough to remember gay meaning happy so who knows?

Edit - Googled. Nothing untoward against fey. Yet.

And yet I can't see why, if its more or less synonymous with something that's not acceptable. That was my point really. If you just change the word because the old word is stigmatised, where does it get you?

Now, back to pansy.

Here's why I think the faux outrage on behalf of a group you aren't a member of is problematic. If you associate "pansy" with being, shall we say effeminate, and in turn with homosexuality, its a problem. The problem is that the link was established in the first place. I'm genuinely not sure whether any of the gay people I know would be offended by RC's use of the term, or offended because someone else explained to RC that a generation ago people like Bernard Manning used it to refer to gay people and that they still associate that word with their group.

Some words are pejorative some aren't. Some there is dispute over. For example, negro is considered pejorative by most, but I think the US still includes it on its census, because some people identify with it.

Here is a dictionary definition of pansy. It seems fairly clear.

pan·sy (păn′zē)
n. pl. pan·sies
1. Any of various plants of the genus Viola, especially V. tricolor or its hybrids, widely cultivated for their flowers with velvety petals of various colors.
2. A deep to strong violet.
3. Offensive Slang
a. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a gay man.

Is 3a fine unless it's linked with 3b?

A world without any pejorative terms would be dull.

Btw, the definition uses "gay", which in my lifetime has gone from descriptive, to being hijacked to being a pejorative term, and back to being descriptive.

No, as indicated by "Offensive Slang".

First.Aspect

So France is about 24 hrs behind the UK in case numbers, and testing less.

Not sure I understand le reasoning to be honest.