The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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I call it house arrest. We used to be a free law governed country where everything was permitted unless it was officially proscribed by laws that had been scrutinised by an elected parliament where the ruling party was held to account by an opposition and a free press. What we have now is the government ruling by dictat, ramming laws through parliament with no dissent and no debate, passing legislation that demands we stay in our own homes day and night save for a few exceptions that are officially allowed. Enforcing that we have a newly zealous police force flying drones to.spy on us and threatening to check our shopping baskets for approved goods, all aided and abetted by an army of curtain twitches desperate to snitch on their neighbours. Anyone (like me) who finds this all quite terrifying and dares to challenge and debate it is viewed as either and eccentric or a dangerous fool. The world has gone mad, and the longer it goes on the further our economy goes down the toilet. I'm obviously wasting my time here but it will be revealing to see how attitudes have changed by this time next year.tailwindhome said:
I don't view the current situation as house arrest.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
I don't understand who you think I'd be tugging my forelocks to or why.
I dont get this bizarre mindset.1 -
No you can't drive to Pen y Fan as you well know. If you happen to live at the foot of Ben Nevis and can walk around on it, crack on.Pross said:
So where is the cut off? Can I drive the 20 miles to climb Pen y Fan? If Ben Nevis was 5 miles away would that be OK? Is it really necessary to have a kick about as your daily exercise?pangolin said:
Why are you comparing a 1-2 mile drive to a safer quieter park to driving to Ben Nevis?Pross said:But I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks finding some space to kick a football around is a reasonable excuse to travel. Would you consider driving up to the Highlands to climb Ben Nevis a reasonable excuse to travel? After all my preferred form of exercise is sky running and the local hills don't cut it for me. Travelling to the coast to do a bit of sailing? The car parks of all the parks around me as well as popular country walks are closed to stop exactly that sort of thing.
If people insist on thinking what they are doing is some sort of reasonable exemption then eventually we'll end up with tighter restrictions like they have in France.
Obviously nobody thinks climbing Ben Nevis is essential.
Your later post says people need to be reasonable. The guy you are arguing with is saying he doesn't want to go to a busy park so he drives less than 2 miles to a quiet one. That sounds reasonable to me.
You're comparing local parks being chosen specifically because they are quiet with known tourist hotspots, it's bizarre.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Nobody's mentioned chem trails except you. You also tried to pretend I'd said sheeple last week to try and bracket me with David Icke and paint me as a nutter. If you can't debate honestly please.ignore me.Pross said:
Yes of course that's the reason. The only alternative would be that people want to return to some semblance of normality as soon as possible and think that following the guidance and acting reasonably might be the quickest way to achieve that. But that would be crazy, we've really been brainwashed by the Government chem trails into demanding an ever more stringent police state.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
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British PPE for British workers. That'll make a nice slogan.0
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Each to their own, but banning running in urban areas would be top of my list of things to do to create a more effective lock down.Pross said:
If all you needed was a loaf of bread and you were traveling further than necessary because you wanted to go to a shop selling fancy artisan loaves then I would question the necessity.DeVlaeminck said:Do we also have to walk to the nearest shop ? If not why not?
If you were going to do a weekly shop then it sounds reasonable. If you think travelling to a park is reasonable carry on but don't be a hypocrite and whinge if the Government decide to restrict our freedoms further or if you get the virus. I'll keep limiting my exercise to short walks or runs from home and topping it up with the turbo trainer.0 -
Sod that. Close some roads so there's space for people to run and walk safely.2
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I don't necessarily disagree but if guidance is put in place then what you can't have is people deciding they know best and doing something else.
Today in this Draconian locked down police state a local garden centre was so busy people were queuing to get into the car park. My aunt has recently started working there a day a week but is currently doing 5 days a week as they're so busy.0 -
On the plus side the graphs appear to be on a better trajectory with the exception possibly of deaths which has that slight lag.0
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True. I should have said on the pavement. I don't mind people running on roads.kingstongraham said:Sod that. Close some roads so there's space for people to run and walk safely.
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No he's saying he goes to another park to have more space to kick a ball around because that is his daughter's preferred exercise. The necessity I'm querying is the need to kick a football around.pangolin said:
No you can't drive to Pen y Fan as you well know. If you happen to live at the foot of Ben Nevis and can walk around on it, crack on.Pross said:
So where is the cut off? Can I drive the 20 miles to climb Pen y Fan? If Ben Nevis was 5 miles away would that be OK? Is it really necessary to have a kick about as your daily exercise?pangolin said:
Why are you comparing a 1-2 mile drive to a safer quieter park to driving to Ben Nevis?Pross said:But I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks finding some space to kick a football around is a reasonable excuse to travel. Would you consider driving up to the Highlands to climb Ben Nevis a reasonable excuse to travel? After all my preferred form of exercise is sky running and the local hills don't cut it for me. Travelling to the coast to do a bit of sailing? The car parks of all the parks around me as well as popular country walks are closed to stop exactly that sort of thing.
If people insist on thinking what they are doing is some sort of reasonable exemption then eventually we'll end up with tighter restrictions like they have in France.
Obviously nobody thinks climbing Ben Nevis is essential.
Your later post says people need to be reasonable. The guy you are arguing with is saying he doesn't want to go to a busy park so he drives less than 2 miles to a quiet one. That sounds reasonable to me.
You're comparing local parks being chosen specifically because they are quiet with known tourist hotspots, it's bizarre.
My preferred exercise would be a nice long walk in the mountains so I should be allowed to drive to the nearest suitable one surely? As it is I'm having to settle for walking the streets around my house and just about getting to some country paths as I don't feel making a journey to carry out exercise I would prefer to do is necessary.0 -
Also, as I said earlier, all my local parks have their car parks closed specifically because people were driving to them.0 -
980 deaths yesterday.
We're Italy now“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
A government with a comfortable majority has always been able to do more or less what it pleases between elections. You seem to have a very rose tinted view of our political system before Covid 19.shortfall said:
I call it house arrest. We used to be a free law governed country where everything was permitted unless it was officially proscribed by laws that had been scrutinised by an elected parliament where the ruling party was held to account by an opposition and a free press. What we have now is the government ruling by dictat, ramming laws through parliament with no dissent and no debate, passing legislation that demands we stay in our own homes day and night save for a few exceptions that are officially allowed. Enforcing that we have a newly zealous police force flying drones to.spy on us and threatening to check our shopping baskets for approved goods, all aided and abetted by an army of curtain twitches desperate to snitch on their neighbours. Anyone (like me) who finds this all quite terrifying and dares to challenge and debate it is viewed as either and eccentric or a dangerous fool. The world has gone mad, and the longer it goes on the further our economy goes down the toilet. I'm obviously wasting my time here but it will be revealing to see how attitudes have changed by this time next year.tailwindhome said:
I don't view the current situation as house arrest.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
I don't understand who you think I'd be tugging my forelocks to or why.
I dont get this bizarre mindset.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Oakland, California are closing 74 miles of roads to cars to allow space for runners and cyclists to exercise.
I can't help thinking that cyclists and runners don't mix too well either, it's all about the speed difference.0 -
Really? All the garden centres round here are closed. Some taking phone and collect orders, some offering delivery, but none open to public to come and browse. Are you in Wales?Pross said:
Today in this Draconian locked down police state a local garden centre was so busy people were queuing to get into the car park. My aunt has recently started working there a day a week but is currently doing 5 days a week as they're so busy.
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Yep, open and busier than ever apparently.0
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Is it my imagination or does Hancock seem better briefed and more confident today?0
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It is weird how when the same numbers were going on in Italy the tone was very grave and serious but now the U.K. is at that level the tone feels much more jovial.0
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Would help if there was a statement that all pedestrians should walk on either the left or right hand side of the road. Presumably right.1
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Not at all, our system had its flaws, but what we have now with this Covid situation is a suppine opposition who nodded draconian legislation through parliament which is itself now suspended and unable to question and hold the government to account. We also have a press and media class that largely accepts wholesale the government lockdown and assault on civil liberties. There a few notable commentators brave enough to speak out and challenge the consensus but they are few and they face a furious mob on social media for daring to challenge conventional wisdom. Then you get wiseacres like Pross who make up strawmen and attribute language such as chem trails and sheeple to dissenting voices. This is all terribly depressing and I'm amazed so many people swallow it without question. Li ke I've repeatedly said it will be informative to revisit these arguments 12 months hence when attitudes have changed, when jobs have been lost, industries wiped out, savings and pensions eroded and the Western world's unproven experiment of putting it's economies into deep freeze for months has panned out.rjsterry said:
A government with a comfortable majority has always been able to do more or less what it pleases between elections. You seem to have a very rose tinted view of our political system before Covid 19.shortfall said:
I call it house arrest. We used to be a free law governed country where everything was permitted unless it was officially proscribed by laws that had been scrutinised by an elected parliament where the ruling party was held to account by an opposition and a free press. What we have now is the government ruling by dictat, ramming laws through parliament with no dissent and no debate, passing legislation that demands we stay in our own homes day and night save for a few exceptions that are officially allowed. Enforcing that we have a newly zealous police force flying drones to.spy on us and threatening to check our shopping baskets for approved goods, all aided and abetted by an army of curtain twitches desperate to snitch on their neighbours. Anyone (like me) who finds this all quite terrifying and dares to challenge and debate it is viewed as either and eccentric or a dangerous fool. The world has gone mad, and the longer it goes on the further our economy goes down the toilet. I'm obviously wasting my time here but it will be revealing to see how attitudes have changed by this time next year.tailwindhome said:
I don't view the current situation as house arrest.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
I don't understand who you think I'd be tugging my forelocks to or why.
I dont get this bizarre mindset.0 -
Shortfall - I understand your concerns, and it is surely a good thing that over zealous police officers are being held to account publically. I do think though that it is an exceptional situation comparable to a war, and some leniency should be given to the government, for now.
The other thing about the idea it is house arrest is that there really is no one stopping you going out and doing what you like except social pressure. I haven't seen any police, for example.
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Have you thoughts on an alternative.shortfall said:
Not at all, our system had its flaws, but what we have now with this Covid situation is a suppine opposition who nodded draconian legislation through parliament which is itself now suspended and unable to question and hold the government to account. We also have a press and media class that largely accepts wholesale the government lockdown and assault on civil liberties. There a few notable commentators brave enough to speak out and challenge the consensus but they are few and they face a furious mob on social media for daring to challenge conventional wisdom. Then you get wiseacres like Pross who make up strawmen and attribute language such as chem trails and sheeple to dissenting voices. This is all terribly depressing and I'm amazed so many people swallow it without question. Li ke I've repeatedly said it will be informative to revisit these arguments 12 months hence when attitudes have changed, when jobs have been lost, industries wiped out, savings and pensions eroded and the Western world's unproven experiment of putting it's economies into deep freeze for months has panned out.rjsterry said:
A government with a comfortable majority has always been able to do more or less what it pleases between elections. You seem to have a very rose tinted view of our political system before Covid 19.shortfall said:
I call it house arrest. We used to be a free law governed country where everything was permitted unless it was officially proscribed by laws that had been scrutinised by an elected parliament where the ruling party was held to account by an opposition and a free press. What we have now is the government ruling by dictat, ramming laws through parliament with no dissent and no debate, passing legislation that demands we stay in our own homes day and night save for a few exceptions that are officially allowed. Enforcing that we have a newly zealous police force flying drones to.spy on us and threatening to check our shopping baskets for approved goods, all aided and abetted by an army of curtain twitches desperate to snitch on their neighbours. Anyone (like me) who finds this all quite terrifying and dares to challenge and debate it is viewed as either and eccentric or a dangerous fool. The world has gone mad, and the longer it goes on the further our economy goes down the toilet. I'm obviously wasting my time here but it will be revealing to see how attitudes have changed by this time next year.tailwindhome said:
I don't view the current situation as house arrest.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
I don't understand who you think I'd be tugging my forelocks to or why.
I dont get this bizarre mindset.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
SF, get out on your bike tomorrow, go for a solo ride, is good for the mental health and sanity. Is what I've been doing, with no problems whatsoever with other road users, few though they are other than non motoriseds.
These times are sh1t. These times will pass. And when the new normal takes form, then we go back to what used to be 'our' society, or alternatively aux armes citoyens. Who knows? In meantime, I recommend the chill pill in bike riding form.4 -
TheBigBean said:
Would help if there was a statement that all pedestrians should walk on either the left or right hand side of the road. Presumably right.
It's a well known principle of physics that, like gas particles spreading evenly in a container, pedestrians in certain areas (notably holiday villages and towns) will spread evenly across a road, even when there's a pavement to one side, and even if there are only two pedestrians. No 'statement' will have any effect on these pedestrians.0 -
Yes, we are now having larger daily numbers than Italy ever had. So much for us not being Italy because we got it under control early.rick_chasey said:It is weird how when the same numbers were going on in Italy the tone was very grave and serious but now the U.K. is at that level the tone feels much more jovial.
We're no longer following Italy, we've got worse numbers.0 -
As things stand 6.2b trumps anyone's opinion on how things should be.DeVlaeminck said:"Restrictions on movement
6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;
(b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;"..............
Things may change, but they haven't.
Is it one for the irony thread that in order to preserve our right to go out and exercise we shouldn't go out and exercise?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
There's no 'when'. Jobs are already being lost. UC applications are through the roof. That the public (not just the media class) is largely supportive of this as a necessary evil should tell you something.shortfall said:
Not at all, our system had its flaws, but what we have now with this Covid situation is a suppine opposition who nodded draconian legislation through parliament which is itself now suspended and unable to question and hold the government to account. We also have a press and media class that largely accepts wholesale the government lockdown and assault on civil liberties. There a few notable commentators brave enough to speak out and challenge the consensus but they are few and they face a furious mob on social media for daring to challenge conventional wisdom. Then you get wiseacres like Pross who make up strawmen and attribute language such as chem trails and sheeple to dissenting voices. This is all terribly depressing and I'm amazed so many people swallow it without question. Li ke I've repeatedly said it will be informative to revisit these arguments 12 months hence when attitudes have changed, when jobs have been lost, industries wiped out, savings and pensions eroded and the Western world's unproven experiment of putting it's economies into deep freeze for months has panned out.rjsterry said:
A government with a comfortable majority has always been able to do more or less what it pleases between elections. You seem to have a very rose tinted view of our political system before Covid 19.shortfall said:
I call it house arrest. We used to be a free law governed country where everything was permitted unless it was officially proscribed by laws that had been scrutinised by an elected parliament where the ruling party was held to account by an opposition and a free press. What we have now is the government ruling by dictat, ramming laws through parliament with no dissent and no debate, passing legislation that demands we stay in our own homes day and night save for a few exceptions that are officially allowed. Enforcing that we have a newly zealous police force flying drones to.spy on us and threatening to check our shopping baskets for approved goods, all aided and abetted by an army of curtain twitches desperate to snitch on their neighbours. Anyone (like me) who finds this all quite terrifying and dares to challenge and debate it is viewed as either and eccentric or a dangerous fool. The world has gone mad, and the longer it goes on the further our economy goes down the toilet. I'm obviously wasting my time here but it will be revealing to see how attitudes have changed by this time next year.tailwindhome said:
I don't view the current situation as house arrest.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
I don't understand who you think I'd be tugging my forelocks to or why.
I dont get this bizarre mindset.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Shortfall, I think we will look back on it as being a terrible time that had a horrible effect on everyone. And that we all did what we could to make sure it wasn't worse.
And I hope those who can still afford to are paying for it for years to come. We'll see how true to form these conservatives are.2 -
I understand that sentiment, I only argue that we are in grave danger of causing far more death and misery through our response. I hope I am wrong but when can you ever remember a time when virtually EVERYONE agreed on a course of action, particularly one as risky as the one we're pursuing? Surely it's right that at least some of us question it?kingstongraham said:Shortfall, I think we will look back on it as being a terrible time that had a horrible effect on everyone. And that we all did what we could to make sure it wasn't worse.
And I hope those who can still afford to are paying for it for years to come. We'll see how true to form these conservatives are.0 -
Sweden. Yes I know the demographic is different and I don't draw direct comparisons but it will be interesting to see how they fare. But really I don't pretend to have any great knowledge or a magic pill, I'm only asking that Parliament be recalled to hold the government to account, I ask the press to use its freedom to challenge, I ask commentators and public alike not to be blinded by panic and emotion in their responses. Can we at least go back to critical thinking?tailwindhome said:
Have you thoughts on an alternative.shortfall said:
Not at all, our system had its flaws, but what we have now with this Covid situation is a suppine opposition who nodded draconian legislation through parliament which is itself now suspended and unable to question and hold the government to account. We also have a press and media class that largely accepts wholesale the government lockdown and assault on civil liberties. There a few notable commentators brave enough to speak out and challenge the consensus but they are few and they face a furious mob on social media for daring to challenge conventional wisdom. Then you get wiseacres like Pross who make up strawmen and attribute language such as chem trails and sheeple to dissenting voices. This is all terribly depressing and I'm amazed so many people swallow it without question. Li ke I've repeatedly said it will be informative to revisit these arguments 12 months hence when attitudes have changed, when jobs have been lost, industries wiped out, savings and pensions eroded and the Western world's unproven experiment of putting it's economies into deep freeze for months has panned out.rjsterry said:
A government with a comfortable majority has always been able to do more or less what it pleases between elections. You seem to have a very rose tinted view of our political system before Covid 19.shortfall said:
I call it house arrest. We used to be a free law governed country where everything was permitted unless it was officially proscribed by laws that had been scrutinised by an elected parliament where the ruling party was held to account by an opposition and a free press. What we have now is the government ruling by dictat, ramming laws through parliament with no dissent and no debate, passing legislation that demands we stay in our own homes day and night save for a few exceptions that are officially allowed. Enforcing that we have a newly zealous police force flying drones to.spy on us and threatening to check our shopping baskets for approved goods, all aided and abetted by an army of curtain twitches desperate to snitch on their neighbours. Anyone (like me) who finds this all quite terrifying and dares to challenge and debate it is viewed as either and eccentric or a dangerous fool. The world has gone mad, and the longer it goes on the further our economy goes down the toilet. I'm obviously wasting my time here but it will be revealing to see how attitudes have changed by this time next year.tailwindhome said:
I don't view the current situation as house arrest.shortfall said:Jeez. Do some of you tug your forelocks when you leave house arrest?
I don't understand who you think I'd be tugging my forelocks to or why.
I dont get this bizarre mindset.0
