The big Coronavirus thread

kingstonian

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

Plus in Germany they stopped providing free test kits many months ago, so it is believed the true infection rate is substantially higher than is being reported. Same for France.

kingstongraham

kingstonian said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

Plus in Germany they stopped providing free test kits many months ago, so it is believed the true infection rate is substantially higher than is being reported. Same for France.

Probably, but death numbers follow the infection rates.

Dorset_Boy

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

looking at that graph you have to think we never dropped the herd immunity policy

I read on another forum that for much of this year, total tests in UK = total tests in the EU.
If that is correct (and I don't know if it is, it's a bit like tennis, football and rugby pretending they don't have PEDs issues because they don't test).

rjsterry

veronese68 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair. Could you ask attendants to take Lateral Flows ahead? I have found most people amenable to that.

Went to an awards event last week. No attempt at any sort of mitigation whatsoever. Crowded foyer reception, sit down dinner and then chatting in the bar afterwards. No ill effects and negative tests following, so have decided to not worry about it, but would have felt more comfortable if they had asked guests to do tests before attending.

I went to a show at the NEC last Friday, had to have proof of being double jabbed, a negative test or a legitimate exemption. It did help me feel more comfortable walking about, I'd also had my booster a few days before. I tried to get it as early as I could to maximise the effect before going. I'm told the Excel Centre have a similar policy.
One of my colleagues couldn't go to the show because he subscribes to all the batshittery, it didn't go down well with management but we have no policy on that so nothing has been done. I suspect they might implement some sort of policy now.

Interesting that your experience is so different.

First.Aspect

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

looking at that graph you have to think we never dropped the herd immunity policy

I read on another forum that for much of this year, total tests in UK = total tests in the EU.
If that is correct (and I don't know if it is, it's a bit like tennis, football and rugby pretending they don't have PEDs issues because they don't test).

Unbelievably that was actually trump's argument against testing.

It is borne out by the death stats in the previous post. There is a 2-3 week lag so Germany's numbers correspond to numbers of positive tests that were far lower than here in early November.

Austria back in full lockdown and mandatory vaccination policy announced.

Pross

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

People (on here and elsewhere) plus other countries were very quick to go down the "look how bad the UK are doing" route when it always seemed likely we were simply ahead of the rest due to Delta coming here first and vaccines being started earlier therefore waning earlier.

jimmyjams

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

looking at that graph you have to think we never dropped the herd immunity policy

I read on another forum that for much of this year, total tests in UK = total tests in the EU.
If that is correct (and I don't know if it is, it's a bit like tennis, football and rugby pretending they don't have PEDs issues because they don't test).

You can't really compare the number of tests done in the UK and those done in the EU because the UK total test figures include self-done rapid lateral tests which a person was supposed to report irrespective of result (and in my circle of family and acquaintances, I'd say over 90% did even when the result was negative).

In several EU countries, however, the system has been that self-done lateral tests (or those done within a private/family group) are not reported or registered, irrespective of result. Rather if a self-test turns out to be positive, then that person is supposed to go along to a proper test centre and be tested by a trained person again.
It is the result of that second test which is then registered (together with the results of any people who went along to the test centre because they wanted recent proof of a negative test in order to attend an event, and any other official tests done, e.g. of people entering hospital).

This means that numerous negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, while no negative self-tests are registered in the figures of several EU countries.
I don't know how many negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, but if I had to guess, I'd say they constitute over 40% of the total. So you would almost have to half the UK testing figures before comparing them to figures in the EU.

veronese68

rjsterry said:

veronese68 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair. Could you ask attendants to take Lateral Flows ahead? I have found most people amenable to that.

Went to an awards event last week. No attempt at any sort of mitigation whatsoever. Crowded foyer reception, sit down dinner and then chatting in the bar afterwards. No ill effects and negative tests following, so have decided to not worry about it, but would have felt more comfortable if they had asked guests to do tests before attending.

I went to a show at the NEC last Friday, had to have proof of being double jabbed, a negative test or a legitimate exemption. It did help me feel more comfortable walking about, I'd also had my booster a few days before. I tried to get it as early as I could to maximise the effect before going. I'm told the Excel Centre have a similar policy.
One of my colleagues couldn't go to the show because he subscribes to all the batshittery, it didn't go down well with management but we have no policy on that so nothing has been done. I suspect they might implement some sort of policy now.

Interesting that your experience is so different.

Yes, I thought so too. The topic obviously came up at the show when talking to people and generally they were happier to be there as a result of the measures. I'm sure there were a few that were upset about them, but those types probably didn't go as a result which suits everyone.

Pross

jimmyjams said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

looking at that graph you have to think we never dropped the herd immunity policy

I read on another forum that for much of this year, total tests in UK = total tests in the EU.
If that is correct (and I don't know if it is, it's a bit like tennis, football and rugby pretending they don't have PEDs issues because they don't test).

You can't really compare the number of tests done in the UK and those done in the EU because the UK total test figures include self-done rapid lateral tests which a person was supposed to report irrespective of result (and in my circle of family and acquaintances, I'd say over 90% did even when the result was negative).

In several EU countries, however, the system has been that self-done lateral tests (or those done within a private/family group) are not reported or registered, irrespective of result. Rather if a self-test turns out to be positive, then that person is supposed to go along to a proper test centre and be tested by a trained person again.
It is the result of that second test which is then registered (together with the results of any people who went along to the test centre because they wanted recent proof of a negative test in order to attend an event, and any other official tests done, e.g. of people entering hospital).

This means that numerous negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, while no negative self-tests are registered in the figures of several EU countries.
I don't know how many negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, but if I had to guess, I'd say they constitute over 40% of the total. So you would almost have to half the UK testing figures before comparing them to figures in the EU.

Are you sure all LFT results are uploaded? I've never uploaded one, my wife has to put them on a portal for her work and my daughter has had to upload some when going on college trips but her normal twice weekly tests don't get uploaded as far as I'm aware.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

People (on here and elsewhere) plus other countries were very quick to go down the "look how bad the UK are doing" route when it always seemed likely we were simply ahead of the rest due to Delta coming here first and vaccines being started earlier therefore waning earlier.

Partly the point I was making (though we mostly agree that the UK made some stupid decisions about delaying decisions), but also Germany had been held up as doing a good job. The graph goes to show that covid will find the cracks in any policy, or choices of populations (in Germany's case, the number of people still unvaccinated).

France has been bringing back mask mandates in schools as a pre-emptive reaction to rising rates, and sticking with the pass sanitaire, both of which appear to be having a mitigating effect.

briantrumpet

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

rjsterry

veronese68 said:

rjsterry said:

veronese68 said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

Fair. Could you ask attendants to take Lateral Flows ahead? I have found most people amenable to that.

Went to an awards event last week. No attempt at any sort of mitigation whatsoever. Crowded foyer reception, sit down dinner and then chatting in the bar afterwards. No ill effects and negative tests following, so have decided to not worry about it, but would have felt more comfortable if they had asked guests to do tests before attending.

I went to a show at the NEC last Friday, had to have proof of being double jabbed, a negative test or a legitimate exemption. It did help me feel more comfortable walking about, I'd also had my booster a few days before. I tried to get it as early as I could to maximise the effect before going. I'm told the Excel Centre have a similar policy.
One of my colleagues couldn't go to the show because he subscribes to all the batshittery, it didn't go down well with management but we have no policy on that so nothing has been done. I suspect they might implement some sort of policy now.

Interesting that your experience is so different.

Yes, I thought so too. The topic obviously came up at the show when talking to people and generally they were happier to be there as a result of the measures. I'm sure there were a few that were upset about them, but those types probably didn't go as a result which suits everyone.

I wish there had been a bit of that at my event. Thankfully I seem to have got away with it.

orraloon

briantrumpet said:

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

Cool. Just downloaded the pdf for Eurotunnel etc ahead of next weekend's Belgie jaunt.

briantrumpet

orraloon said:

briantrumpet said:

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

Cool. Just downloaded the pdf for Eurotunnel etc ahead of next weekend's Belgie jaunt.

Yeah, well worth taking a paper copy in case of IT disruption or phone failure. Or at least screencap of QR code. The only annoyance about the app is you have to log in each time, it doesn't save your email address or password, and the phone's back button will log you out rather than back to the previous screen.

surrey_commuter

briantrumpet said:

orraloon said:

briantrumpet said:

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

Cool. Just downloaded the pdf for Eurotunnel etc ahead of next weekend's Belgie jaunt.

Yeah, well worth taking a paper copy in case of IT disruption or phone failure. Or at least screencap of QR code. The only annoyance about the app is you have to log in each time, it doesn't save your email address or password, and the phone's back button will log you out rather than back to the previous screen.

mine is just on a thumbprint

I love it as can do repeat prescriptions and can even specify where to collect

orraloon

briantrumpet said:

orraloon said:

briantrumpet said:

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

Cool. Just downloaded the pdf for Eurotunnel etc ahead of next weekend's Belgie jaunt.

Yeah, well worth taking a paper copy in case of IT disruption or phone failure. Or at least screencap of QR code. The only annoyance about the app is you have to log in each time, it doesn't save your email address or password, and the phone's back button will log you out rather than back to the previous screen.

Got the app on iPad as well as android phone. Have the pdf with the QR codes downloaded on iPad which I'll take with me. Do I really need physical paper copy or just pass the iPad over to border control if asked?

Pross

orraloon said:

briantrumpet said:

orraloon said:

briantrumpet said:

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

Cool. Just downloaded the pdf for Eurotunnel etc ahead of next weekend's Belgie jaunt.

Yeah, well worth taking a paper copy in case of IT disruption or phone failure. Or at least screencap of QR code. The only annoyance about the app is you have to log in each time, it doesn't save your email address or password, and the phone's back button will log you out rather than back to the previous screen.

Got the app on iPad as well as android phone. Have the pdf with the QR codes downloaded on iPad which I'll take with me. Do I really need physical paper copy or just pass the iPad over to border control if asked?

I found it easier to have hard copies of everything rather than searching emails / downloads. Also had a fear of battery dying

kingstonian

Yes, would suggest taking hard copies with you

jimmyjams

Pross said:

jimmyjams said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

looking at that graph you have to think we never dropped the herd immunity policy

I read on another forum that for much of this year, total tests in UK = total tests in the EU.
If that is correct (and I don't know if it is, it's a bit like tennis, football and rugby pretending they don't have PEDs issues because they don't test).

You can't really compare the number of tests done in the UK and those done in the EU because the UK total test figures include self-done rapid lateral tests which a person was supposed to report irrespective of result (and in my circle of family and acquaintances, I'd say over 90% did even when the result was negative).

In several EU countries, however, the system has been that self-done lateral tests (or those done within a private/family group) are not reported or registered, irrespective of result. Rather if a self-test turns out to be positive, then that person is supposed to go along to a proper test centre and be tested by a trained person again.
It is the result of that second test which is then registered (together with the results of any people who went along to the test centre because they wanted recent proof of a negative test in order to attend an event, and any other official tests done, e.g. of people entering hospital).

This means that numerous negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, while no negative self-tests are registered in the figures of several EU countries.
I don't know how many negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, but if I had to guess, I'd say they constitute over 40% of the total. So you would almost have to half the UK testing figures before comparing them to figures in the EU.

Are you sure all LFT results are uploaded? I've never uploaded one, my wife has to put them on a portal for her work and my daughter has had to upload some when going on college trips but her normal twice weekly tests don't get uploaded as far as I'm aware.

I don't know if all LFT results are uploaded, I only said self-tests are supposed to be. I'm sure some people can't be bothered to do so when the result is negative, while others might also purposely neglect to do so if the result is positive but the person considers his/herself asymptomatic and it's 'inconvenient' to quarantine. (And I've no idea how schools, etc, handle test results)
But this is text from the government guidance titled 'How to do a coronavirus (COVID-19) rapid lateral flow test at home':

Report all results (positive, negative or void):
- every time you use a rapid test kit
- within 24 hours

Report a rapid test result online
If you cannot use the online service, call 119.

I've asked 13-14 family/friends if they did as required and reported their results every time they did a self-administered LFT test, irrespective of result, and all but one said they had, the odd one out saying only when she had the time or remembered (which she reckoned was half the time).
From what they said, I'd guess they've done easily 50 tests between them all, if not more, 3 of which turned out positive, the rest negative.

briantrumpet

jimmyjams said:

Pross said:

jimmyjams said:

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

Germany doing a pretty spectacular job of catching up. And school cases rising pretty rapidly again in the UK post half=term, apparently driven by 5-11yo's.

looking at that graph you have to think we never dropped the herd immunity policy

I read on another forum that for much of this year, total tests in UK = total tests in the EU.
If that is correct (and I don't know if it is, it's a bit like tennis, football and rugby pretending they don't have PEDs issues because they don't test).

You can't really compare the number of tests done in the UK and those done in the EU because the UK total test figures include self-done rapid lateral tests which a person was supposed to report irrespective of result (and in my circle of family and acquaintances, I'd say over 90% did even when the result was negative).

In several EU countries, however, the system has been that self-done lateral tests (or those done within a private/family group) are not reported or registered, irrespective of result. Rather if a self-test turns out to be positive, then that person is supposed to go along to a proper test centre and be tested by a trained person again.
It is the result of that second test which is then registered (together with the results of any people who went along to the test centre because they wanted recent proof of a negative test in order to attend an event, and any other official tests done, e.g. of people entering hospital).

This means that numerous negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, while no negative self-tests are registered in the figures of several EU countries.
I don't know how many negative self-tests are included in the UK figures, but if I had to guess, I'd say they constitute over 40% of the total. So you would almost have to half the UK testing figures before comparing them to figures in the EU.

Are you sure all LFT results are uploaded? I've never uploaded one, my wife has to put them on a portal for her work and my daughter has had to upload some when going on college trips but her normal twice weekly tests don't get uploaded as far as I'm aware.

I don't know if all LFT results are uploaded, I only said self-tests are supposed to be. I'm sure some people can't be bothered to do so when the result is negative, while others might also purposely neglect to do so if the result is positive but the person considers his/herself asymptomatic and it's 'inconvenient' to quarantine. (And I've no idea how schools, etc, handle test results)
But this is text from the government guidance titled 'How to do a coronavirus (COVID-19) rapid lateral flow test at home':

Report all results (positive, negative or void):
- every time you use a rapid test kit
- within 24 hours

Report a rapid test result online
If you cannot use the online service, call 119.

I've asked 13-14 family/friends if they did as required and reported their results every time they did a self-administered LFT test, irrespective of result, and all but one said they had, the odd one out saying only when she had the time or remembered (which she reckoned was half the time).
From what they said, I'd guess they've done easily 50 tests between them all, if not more, 3 of which turned out positive, the rest negative.

As I mentioned upthread, the current tests we're using at school haven't got QR codes, so can't be uploaded, and another teacher I know told me that her school hadn't instructed them to upload their results at any time. I'd uploaded all of mine until the arrival of the new un-QR'd tests a month or so ago.

Dorset_Boy

I suspect if you test irregularly you are more likely to upload each negative result.
Lots of school kids don't uipload their negatives.

Jezyboy

I've not uploaded the ones I've taken before socialising with older family members.

kingstongraham

I've not uploaded any.

pblakeney

My wife does 3 a week for work. Always negative and never uploaded.

Jezyboy

Phew I thought I was being an awful person for not uploading!

Ben6899

orraloon said:

briantrumpet said:

And the NHS app now showing the booster on the Travel bit of the vaccines record. The use of the NHS app to get these out has been genuinely impressive.

Cool. Just downloaded the pdf for Eurotunnel etc ahead of next weekend's Belgie jaunt.

Was pretty smooth running when we went to Germany, as we had everything uploaded to Eurotunnel's portal. That's the key - getting it all uploaded and verified, otherwise when you check in at the gate you'll be sent to show your documents in person at the terminal.

If you're organised, it's just like pre-pandemic, but you have to show vaccine status - physical document - to the French passport people. Which is obviously no worries.

EDIT - I now realise I've basically repeated all the excellent advice from others before I logged on! But yeh, take a folder of physical copies just in case.

briantrumpet

Ben6899 said:

But yeh, take a folder of physical copies just in case.

I wonder if for France one could take a folder of metaphysical copies. Or even perform the documents in mime.

Ben6899

briantrumpet said:

Ben6899 said:

But yeh, take a folder of physical copies just in case.

I wonder if for France one could take a folder of metaphysical copies. Or even perform the documents in mime.

Just shrug.

orraloon

Ben6899 said:

If you're organised, it's just like pre-pandemic, but you have to show vaccine status - physical document - to the French passport people. Which is obviously no worries.

Hadn't clocked that physical check. Ok, will print off the various bits on paper. How old school. Ta for info.

briantrumpet

Ben6899 said:

briantrumpet said:

Ben6899 said:

But yeh, take a folder of physical copies just in case.

I wonder if for France one could take a folder of metaphysical copies. Or even perform the documents in mime.

Just shrug.

That's both mime and a concept.