The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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If only all of these posts were available so we could just read back and work it out- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Others may disagree, but I am not struggling with the reading bit.pangolin said:If only all of these posts were available so we could just read back and work it out
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Oddly it was John trying to make the opposite point to the one you assumed - that Ireland hadn't don't much better. Someone pointed out that they had.TheBigBean said:
Others may disagree, but I am not struggling with the reading bit.pangolin said:If only all of these posts were available so we could just read back and work it out
I agree the comparisons aren't usually much use but in fairness it's more relevant than motorway lengths.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I think comparisons are OK. They are all we have after all.
One stat that we win head and shoulders above the rest is...
Longest duration lockdown according to the Wikipedia table!0 -
The implication I took was that it isn't as simple as some people want it to be. It's not just about population density or any other one thing.TheBigBean said:
Others may disagree, but I am not struggling with the reading bit.pangolin said:If only all of these posts were available so we could just read back and work it out
Could be wrong, but it was fairly clear to me. Nobody at any point said we should have done the same as japan1 -
That's better than what I inferred. Thank you for pointing out the other implication.kingstongraham said:
The implication I took was that it isn't as simple as some people want it to be. It's not just about population density or any other one thing.TheBigBean said:
Others may disagree, but I am not struggling with the reading bit.pangolin said:If only all of these posts were available so we could just read back and work it out
Could be wrong, but it was fairly clear to me. Nobody at any point said we should have done the same as japan0 -
No one has posted a graph for a while. Or an FT tweet.
Way more interesting than driving analogies or detailed analyses of what he said they said he said.0 -
Here's a good one - ignore the caption about avoiding football matches, it's the indoor gatherings.
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The fact that he had a load of people round his house potentially infecting his missus was lost on him presumably. I would not be patting him on the back for his approach.Jezyboy said:
Neighbour (well across the road) bumped into us (not literally) in the park on Christmas day walking his dog... He was missing lunch to ensure the number round the table during lunch was below 6.pangolin said:
I think you continue to underestimate what a high percentage of the population begrudgingly follow the rules.john80 said:
You have some pretty rose tinted glasses on their regarding how much control the government had in December some 8-9 months into restrictions.pangolin said:
The government were in control. It was their decision to remove restrictions. What are you on about?john80 said:
Maybe they were happy with their choices. The government can't control everything can it.pangolin said:
The population were left to work out the risk themselves at Christmas John and we saw how that went.john80 said:
The population have worked out their risk and are acting accordingly throughout. Just because their risk level is different to most on this forum does not make them wrong. It might be late for you to realise that a good percentage of the population saw that we were no New Zealand and the death rate was acceptable to them regardless of how many cake stoppers wanted to get annoyed with them. How many people has Nicola sturgeon saved with holding onto restrictions longer and doing things a couple of days earlier it of a cobra meeting? How many have Ireland saved by being a bit stricter throughout?pangolin said:
I know you don't actually think I'm going to die - but the point you were making with that 'joke' was bang on trend with the rest of the guff you've posted about masks.john80 said:
If you can't see the sarcasm of a post equating a minor mask infraction to death and a slew of prior posts arguing that people are being a bit over the top with masks then I can't help you.pangolin said:
Weak. You weren't joking, unless every post you've made on this topic has been a joke.john80 said:
I was joking but I seem to have touched a nerve.pangolin said:
Explanation? I think you mean outcome.john80 said:
You are going to die. There is no other possible explanation. You should have got in a face to face shouting match to make sure of it.pangolin said:I've just had my second jab, so in a couple of weeks you can all stop wearing masks, thanks.
(If that seems like an outrageous position to take it's because it is)
Meanwhile the woman next to me in the post jab holding pen has her nose completely out of her mask.
Pretending I am acting as though this will kill me gives you something to argue against, but I'm not so I'm not sure who it is you think you're arguing with.
Some people have been saying that those unfortunate youths who want both jabs but haven't had them yet should take personal responsibility and avoid shops (or wherever) if they want to.
They can hardly avoid going to get the jab though. And even somewhere like that there are people so thoughtless or incompetent that they can't or won't wear one properly.
This is just one example, the premise that 18-35 yr olds should just self isolate for the next 6 weeks is as silly as it was when people suggested old people should do it in 2020. Especially now the alternative is such a small ask.
I didn't think I would have to join these dots quite so slowly for you.
You're still arguing against a point that I don't really think anyone is making. On an individual level any given interaction with a maskless person is very unlikely to be harmful, yes. On a population wide level, remove restrictions and some of these interactions will result in infections... obviously.
Anyway it's been spelled out for you plenty of times now. At least DV had the honesty to say he just didn't want to wear one, rather than pretending he was doing some rainman-esque risk calculations every time he did anything. If the population as a whole was capable of working out their risk effectively, there would be no pandemic.
I don't think I've seen a single person on here say they think Sturgeon is doing a good job, odd example there.
I'm sure it's not the only example of a group who tried to follow right up to the letter of the law/guidance whatever it was.1 -
The rule of 6 isn’t an absolute protection to any individual though and was never purported to be.john80 said:
The fact that he had a load of people round his house potentially infecting his missus was lost on him presumably. I would not be patting him on the back for his approach.Jezyboy said:
Neighbour (well across the road) bumped into us (not literally) in the park on Christmas day walking his dog... He was missing lunch to ensure the number round the table during lunch was below 6.pangolin said:
I think you continue to underestimate what a high percentage of the population begrudgingly follow the rules.john80 said:
You have some pretty rose tinted glasses on their regarding how much control the government had in December some 8-9 months into restrictions.pangolin said:
The government were in control. It was their decision to remove restrictions. What are you on about?john80 said:
Maybe they were happy with their choices. The government can't control everything can it.pangolin said:
The population were left to work out the risk themselves at Christmas John and we saw how that went.john80 said:
The population have worked out their risk and are acting accordingly throughout. Just because their risk level is different to most on this forum does not make them wrong. It might be late for you to realise that a good percentage of the population saw that we were no New Zealand and the death rate was acceptable to them regardless of how many cake stoppers wanted to get annoyed with them. How many people has Nicola sturgeon saved with holding onto restrictions longer and doing things a couple of days earlier it of a cobra meeting? How many have Ireland saved by being a bit stricter throughout?pangolin said:
I know you don't actually think I'm going to die - but the point you were making with that 'joke' was bang on trend with the rest of the guff you've posted about masks.john80 said:
If you can't see the sarcasm of a post equating a minor mask infraction to death and a slew of prior posts arguing that people are being a bit over the top with masks then I can't help you.pangolin said:
Weak. You weren't joking, unless every post you've made on this topic has been a joke.john80 said:
I was joking but I seem to have touched a nerve.pangolin said:
Explanation? I think you mean outcome.john80 said:
You are going to die. There is no other possible explanation. You should have got in a face to face shouting match to make sure of it.pangolin said:I've just had my second jab, so in a couple of weeks you can all stop wearing masks, thanks.
(If that seems like an outrageous position to take it's because it is)
Meanwhile the woman next to me in the post jab holding pen has her nose completely out of her mask.
Pretending I am acting as though this will kill me gives you something to argue against, but I'm not so I'm not sure who it is you think you're arguing with.
Some people have been saying that those unfortunate youths who want both jabs but haven't had them yet should take personal responsibility and avoid shops (or wherever) if they want to.
They can hardly avoid going to get the jab though. And even somewhere like that there are people so thoughtless or incompetent that they can't or won't wear one properly.
This is just one example, the premise that 18-35 yr olds should just self isolate for the next 6 weeks is as silly as it was when people suggested old people should do it in 2020. Especially now the alternative is such a small ask.
I didn't think I would have to join these dots quite so slowly for you.
You're still arguing against a point that I don't really think anyone is making. On an individual level any given interaction with a maskless person is very unlikely to be harmful, yes. On a population wide level, remove restrictions and some of these interactions will result in infections... obviously.
Anyway it's been spelled out for you plenty of times now. At least DV had the honesty to say he just didn't want to wear one, rather than pretending he was doing some rainman-esque risk calculations every time he did anything. If the population as a whole was capable of working out their risk effectively, there would be no pandemic.
I don't think I've seen a single person on here say they think Sturgeon is doing a good job, odd example there.
I'm sure it's not the only example of a group who tried to follow right up to the letter of the law/guidance whatever it was.
It’s a numbers game on a large scale.
If everybody is limited to gatherings of 6, there will be less total transmissions than without a limit.
To flip the logic, he could have been the one infected person and has just saved his guests from contracting it.0 -
Part of me is pleased in the sense that it was a good idea to stop things like football matches when things were quite bad.kingstongraham said:Here's a good one - ignore the caption about avoiding football matches, it's the indoor gatherings.
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for thse of us who find the format of Twitter tedious would you mind giving a precis or link to a grown up sourcerick_chasey said:0 -
Not just me then.surrey_commuter said:
for thse of us who find the format of Twitter tedious would you mind giving a precis or link to a grown up sourcerick_chasey said:
I don’t understand how a medium with such an awkward format for detailed content has become so prevalent for exactly that.0 -
why wouldn't that chap use 147 characters (I know) to give a headline and a link to his blog?morstar said:
Not just me then.surrey_commuter said:
for thse of us who find the format of Twitter tedious would you mind giving a precis or link to a grown up sourcerick_chasey said:
I don’t understand how a medium with such an awkward format for detailed content has become so prevalent for exactly that.0 -
The jist seems to be that the database skewed by infection rates among lower % vaccinated populations in cities.surrey_commuter said:
for thse of us who find the format of Twitter tedious would you mind giving a precis or link to a grown up sourcerick_chasey said:
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The irony of Twitter is that it is a forum designed for brevity that predominantly attracts windbags.
"1/20 .... 2/20..." Etc.0 -
thank youFirst.Aspect said:
The jist seems to be that the database skewed by infection rates among lower % vaccinated populations in cities.surrey_commuter said:
for thse of us who find the format of Twitter tedious would you mind giving a precis or link to a grown up sourcerick_chasey said:
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Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .
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The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .0 -
darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.
Kamikhazi?Ben
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And to be fair they have been wearing masks for years....look at Kendo Nagasaki 😀darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .0 -
They're also very used to wearing masks in public to prevent infection, it's the norm (for the person who has a cold or whatever).darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .
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I never quite understood why all our attempts to find an alternative to the handshake (elbow bumps, fist bumps etc) still involved physical contact, whereas the Japanese bow works perfectly well with no physical contact at all.darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .0 -
The elbow bump gets you closer than a handshake. I know you aren't touching hands that you will inevitably then touch your face with, but I agree it's not a great alternative.mrb123 said:
I never quite understood why all our attempts to find an alternative to the handshake (elbow bumps, fist bumps etc) still involved physical contact, whereas the Japanese bow works perfectly well with no physical contact at all.darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .0 -
I like the fist into palm Chinese martial art style salute - not sure of its origins something to do with supporters of one dynasty over another I think.mrb123 said:
I never quite understood why all our attempts to find an alternative to the handshake (elbow bumps, fist bumps etc) still involved physical contact, whereas the Japanese bow works perfectly well with no physical contact at all.darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .
Perhaps we could have different greeting salutes with similar meanings - 2 fingers to show you back Indyref2, make some curly Rams horns to show you support Derby, maybe something to show you favour rejoining the EU etc.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Turn it around - what is it about European culture that means contact is important and why do you think contact is included in the greeting?mrb123 said:
I never quite understood why all our attempts to find an alternative to the handshake (elbow bumps, fist bumps etc) still involved physical contact, whereas the Japanese bow works perfectly well with no physical contact at all.darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .
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We love touching people. I will just leave that there.rick_chasey said:
Turn it around - what is it about European culture that means contact is important and why do you think contact is included in the greeting?mrb123 said:
I never quite understood why all our attempts to find an alternative to the handshake (elbow bumps, fist bumps etc) still involved physical contact, whereas the Japanese bow works perfectly well with no physical contact at all.darkhairedlord said:
The japanese are traditionally more stand-offish, and probably wash their hands after going to the khazi.elbowloh said:
Nope it was merely to show that population density isn't the only reason why COVID spreads in some countries over others.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but the only possible reason for making such a comparison is to suggest the UK should have done better that it should have done as well as Ireland and Japan. I presumed this was by employing the same expert pandemic handling techniques, but I was told this wasn't what anyone said. So perhaps the UK should have done as well as Japan in completely different way, but I'm struggling with the relevance of that.Pross said:
It came from someone saying an unfavourable comparison of death rates per 100,000 with Ireland wasn't fair as Ireland is less densely populated so someone else did a comparison with Japan where populations are more dense.TheBigBean said:
I did read them. Why are people comparing the UK to Japan? What is the relevance?elbowloh said:
Which no one has said.TheBigBean said:I see things have moved on from the UK should have copied New Zealand to the UK should have copied Japan.
You should try reading the posts .0
