The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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20% Day on day is not 5 days doubling, it's 4.
1.2 to the power of 4 = 2.08
Likewise 25% Day on day means 3 days to double.
1.25 cubed = 1.95
The maths is exponential rather than arithmetic.kingstongraham said:
About 4 days seems right - ignoring yesterday's low number, and looking at the number released on Saturday (24 hours to 5pm on Friday), that was 708, which is 20% of the previous day's total, so a 5 day doubling.mrfpb said:
Deaths have more than doubled in the last 4 days, so unless they slow consistently over the next few days, we will have 20,000 by next weekend. As said above, there appears to be lower death counts at weekend. I think a peak before 10,000 deaths is unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.surrey_commuter said:Dorset_Boy said:
They were saying on R5 this morning that the doubling time is 4-5 days now.mrfpb said:Looking at the maths, if we want less than 20,000 deaths we need the peak to happen this week, before we reach 10,000 deaths.
With cases and deaths doubling every 3 days, we would hit 20,000 deaths next weekend without peaking.
That is my interpretation of the graphs and based upon the assumption that they are not massaging the death count.
Average that calculation over the last few days, and you get doubling between 4 and 4.5 days.0 -
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
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Italy doesn't need to leave the EU. The Eurozone problems are not EU problems. Sweden, for example, does not seem to be involved in the disputes around whether Italy can raise more debt.rick_chasey said:
Italy leaving the EU is a big problem, and the eurozone problems are emphatically EU problems.TheBigBean said:
A lot of talk that the EU looks wobbly, but it is the Eurozone that looks wobbly. It always has. There simply isn't the political unity for monetary unity.rick_chasey said:
I don't see how that point is relevant in this instance.TheBigBean said:
There seems to be a lot of conflations between the Eurozone and the EU. That of course has been one of the criticisms recently.rick_chasey said:
It's also the Dutch & German intransigence to want to help out Italy economically too. They both have massively gained from the way the EU is structured and run and they don't seem to recognise that.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.
Now, you could argue that if the Eurozone collapsed then so would the EU, and that is fair enough, but it doesn't have to.
Ideally, Germany and few others would leave the Eurozone, but that would be messy, and a lot of cash sits in Germany to hedge against this anyway.
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Thanks for the correction.mrfpb said:20% Day on day is not 5 days doubling, it's 4.
1.2 to the power of 4 = 2.08
Likewise 25% Day on day means 3 days to double.
1.25 cubed = 1.95
The maths is exponential rather than arithmetic.kingstongraham said:
About 4 days seems right - ignoring yesterday's low number, and looking at the number released on Saturday (24 hours to 5pm on Friday), that was 708, which is 20% of the previous day's total, so a 5 day doubling.mrfpb said:
Deaths have more than doubled in the last 4 days, so unless they slow consistently over the next few days, we will have 20,000 by next weekend. As said above, there appears to be lower death counts at weekend. I think a peak before 10,000 deaths is unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.surrey_commuter said:Dorset_Boy said:
They were saying on R5 this morning that the doubling time is 4-5 days now.mrfpb said:Looking at the maths, if we want less than 20,000 deaths we need the peak to happen this week, before we reach 10,000 deaths.
With cases and deaths doubling every 3 days, we would hit 20,000 deaths next weekend without peaking.
That is my interpretation of the graphs and based upon the assumption that they are not massaging the death count.
Average that calculation over the last few days, and you get doubling between 4 and 4.5 days.
Actually between 3 and 4 days then.0 -
Only time will tell with regard to 'defeating' the virus, but the communication and general sense of bringing a country together for a common purpose has been faultless.TheBigBean said:Still no signs of a government then? Obviously good job by Vradkar.
It does have the sense of the right leader for the right crisis.
When this passes everyone will remember they still can get a house.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.0 -
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
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You are actually the Dutch Finance Minister and ICMFP.surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.0 -
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.0 -
Because the alternative may be worse. Wanting to flog poorer countries loads of stuff on credit and then breaking their legs when they can't make the repayments is probably not the image Germany wants.surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I see you are now referring to Londoners in the third person. So soon?rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Separately, I would like to point out that the idea of being able to do any kind of work in hospital is stupid, let alone actually being PM.0
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There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
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I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.0 -
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
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Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.0 -
His bit of the hospital will look very different to yours.rick_chasey said:Separately, I would like to point out that the idea of being able to do any kind of work in hospital is stupid, let alone actually being PM.
The fact that they could not meet his medical needs in No 10 suggests he is a lost worse than they are letting on.
There was discussion upthread about the fatties accounting for the deaths in the young. In the Spectator Boris claimed to be 5’9” and 16.5 stone which makes him obese. If you assume he was lying and that he has quite obviously got fatter as PM then he will be what they call pre-diabetic.0 -
He means the political unity in the UK allows for monetary unity in the UK. He assumes you want political unity in the EU. He believes without political unity you can not have monetary unity.rick_chasey said:
Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.0 -
I don't want to alarm anyone.
But
The Orange Order have just cancelled the Twelfth of July parades.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
...right.surrey_commuter said:
He means the political unity in the UK allows for monetary unity in the UK. He assumes you want political unity in the EU. He believes without political unity you can not have monetary unity.rick_chasey said:
Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
I think we can all agree on that. I don’t understand why it’s being brought up.0 -
An average person in New York/London/Moscow will support spending of "their money" in New Orleans/Newcastle/Vladivostok, because they feel politically united and part of the same country. An average person in Germany/Netherlands/Finland has no interest in spending "their money" in Italy/Greece/Spain because they do not feel politically united (even if there are MEPs) and do not feel part of the same country.rick_chasey said:
Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.0 -
rjsterry said:
Because the alternative may be worse. Wanting to flog poorer countries loads of stuff on credit and then breaking their legs when they can't make the repayments is probably not the image Germany wants.surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
So you think the German taxpayer will keep funding the €40bn deficit indefinitely?0 -
Beat me to it BB.TheBigBean said:
An average person in New York/London/Moscow will support spending of "their money" in New Orleans/Newcastle/Vladivostok, because they feel politically united and part of the same country. An average person in Germany/Netherlands/Finland has no interest in spending "their money" in Italy/Greece/Spain because they do not feel politically united (even if their are MEPs) and do not feel part of the same country.rick_chasey said:
Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
Rick, I'm surprised this is new to you. Pretty sure I have raised this in the past as being one of the key risk areas for the single currency."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
This self promoting comedian character has appeared on Scottish media recently. I don't know why. She is marginally less funny than the pandemic.bompington said:bompington said:So here in Scotland, the CMO is in a bit of trouble for heading to her holiday home at the weekends...
Shame, 'cos she's competent and human, but it's hard to justify isn't it. Might be hard for her job to survive as there are a lot of people looking for someone to rage at.
I'll work on a translation sometime but you should all, err, get the driftBianchi ImpulsoBMC Teammachine SLR02 01Trek Domane AL3“When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. “ ~H.G. Wells Edit - "Unless it's a BMX"0 -
There was discussion upthread about the fatties accounting for the deaths in the young. In the Spectator Boris claimed to be 5’9” and 16.5 stone which makes him obese. If you assume he was lying and that he has quite obviously got fatter as PM then he will be what they call pre-diabetic.
My first thought when the PM got it was that he isn't in good shape. By the way, sometimes type 2 diabetes can be heavily influenced by genes such is the suspicion in my case. I could certainly lose a few pounds but Boris Johnson looks very overweight.0 -
This self promoting comedian character has appeared on Scottish media recently. I don't know why. She is marginally less funny than the pandemic.
It is, in my opinion, very West of Scotland humour. It's not that bad one time but I can see that she's going to keep doing it. She's also loved by the Guardian...
0 -
Rick’s point is that if the Tories honour their promises then the unity between London and Newcastle will be stretched to breaking pointStevo_666 said:
Beat me to it BB.TheBigBean said:
An average person in New York/London/Moscow will support spending of "their money" in New Orleans/Newcastle/Vladivostok, because they feel politically united and part of the same country. An average person in Germany/Netherlands/Finland has no interest in spending "their money" in Italy/Greece/Spain because they do not feel politically united (even if their are MEPs) and do not feel part of the same country.rick_chasey said:
Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
Rick, I'm surprised this is new to you. Pretty sure I have raised this in the past as being one of the key risk areas for the single currency.0 -
I guess I'm confused because what you're explaining is a given. Of course there is no political unity in the eurozone; that's literally what I brought up myself.surrey_commuter said:
Rick’s point is that if the Tories honour their promises then the unity between London and Newcastle will be stretched to breaking pointStevo_666 said:
Beat me to it BB.TheBigBean said:
An average person in New York/London/Moscow will support spending of "their money" in New Orleans/Newcastle/Vladivostok, because they feel politically united and part of the same country. An average person in Germany/Netherlands/Finland has no interest in spending "their money" in Italy/Greece/Spain because they do not feel politically united (even if their are MEPs) and do not feel part of the same country.rick_chasey said:
Care to explain it to the thick?TheBigBean said:
Therein lies the problem, and why you make comparisons to London funding other parts of the country.rick_chasey said:
I don't understand this post.TheBigBean said:
There is political unity which allows for monetary unity as per my original post. This is not the case in the Eurozone. You may wish there is sufficient political unity, but there isn't.rick_chasey said:
Runs deep than that. The entire structure of the EU, by design or otherwise, massively benefits Germany with the exception of it becoming the lender of last resort, and it doesn't want to hold that end of the bargain up.Jeremy.89 said:
Is there not an argument that Germany benefits from everyone else living beyond their means, when living beyond your means is synonymous with buy a luxury German car on finance that you can't quite afford?surrey_commuter said:
TBB is good on this sort of thing and his point is the EU can not sort the money out, that can only come from Germany - my apologies if I misunderstood.rjsterry said:
Agreed. There's not much the EU can do about the outbreak. Although the EU can and should sort the money out. None of us need Italy or Spain tanking.surrey_commuter said:
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Why should Germany bail somebody out who has been living beyond their means for decades and will carry on doing so after any bail out.
I await Londoners giving the same response if the Tories back up their promises to ramp up investment in the North.
Rick, I'm surprised this is new to you. Pretty sure I have raised this in the past as being one of the key risk areas for the single currency.
If there was, there'd be a solution and I wouldn't be calling out the Netherlands and Germany.
I'm still confused why you felt the need to illustrate that when it was the premise of the topic.
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