The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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Italy is in the US?rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.0 -
Yeah I thought that was us.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Joking aside though I do find the political implications interesting.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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They were saying on R5 this morning that the doubling time is 4-5 days now.mrfpb said:Looking at the maths, if we want less than 20,000 deaths we need the peak to happen this week, before we reach 10,000 deaths.
With cases and deaths doubling every 3 days, we would hit 20,000 deaths next weekend without peaking.0 -
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Which shouldn't really be surprising for even the most ardent EU supporter. German governments get voted in by Germans etc.Stevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.0 -
rick_chasey said:
Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
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And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.0 -
Dorset_Boy said:
They were saying on R5 this morning that the doubling time is 4-5 days now.mrfpb said:Looking at the maths, if we want less than 20,000 deaths we need the peak to happen this week, before we reach 10,000 deaths.
With cases and deaths doubling every 3 days, we would hit 20,000 deaths next weekend without peaking.
That is my interpretation of the graphs and based upon the assumption that they are not massaging the death count.0 -
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.0 -
Not crowing.
Just agreeing that the reality is starting to dawn on people.
Whatever...0 -
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.0 -
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Given about 1 in 5 of those infected end up in hospital, it's surprising that there haven't been more ministers more seriously affected.surrey_commuter said:If you consider how much medical care could be provided in Downing St and the obvious desire to keep him out of hospital you have to wonder how bad he is.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
nickice said:
Which shouldn't really be surprising for even the most ardent EU supporter. German governments get voted in by Germans etc.Stevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Germany has been using its spare ICU capacity to treat patients from Italy and France“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
It's also the Dutch & German intransigence to want to help out Italy economically too. They both have massively gained from the way the EU is structured and run and they don't seem to recognise that.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.0 -
The Scottish Government has had very little to offer outside of relaying the message of the UK government. The "taskforce" seems to be more about showing that we could manage all by ourselves up here than anything else. We aren't short of medical professionals or other experts. Her expertise is replaceable, basically.pblakeney said:
All of that is undoubtably true.crescent said:
That looked to be the only outcome, based on the way the story was unfolding. Very disappointing, and beyond naive, that she did what she did, but I think she was a very genuine and competent person and had a lot to offer the Scottish Govt. I'm not one for calling for people to be sacked but, as the Scottish face of the "stay at home" campaign, it just made her position completely untenable.focuszing723 said:Catherine Calderwood has resigned.
Will her resignation help the situation though?
Much like BJ, you worry about the competence of the back up.
And given that her main role in all of this was to convey some more local sincerity and gravitas, to stay would have actually been detrimental. Even where I live in the sticks we had a lot of day trippers this weekend, and the Easter weekend will be much more challenging. Having a hypocrite telling people to do as I say not as I do would have been very bad.1 -
See above post re crowing.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.
Are you seriously saying that any country's offer to aid another country hit by an earthquake would be dependent on its membership of the EU?0 -
There seems to be a lot of conflations between the Eurozone and the EU. That of course has been one of the criticisms recently.rick_chasey said:
It's also the Dutch & German intransigence to want to help out Italy economically too. They both have massively gained from the way the EU is structured and run and they don't seem to recognise that.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.0 -
But I bet when it comes to getting masks etc, or the coronabonds they'd be acting differently. Don't get me wrong, it's great that they're doing what they're doing but if it came to it that they had to choose between French and Germans, solidarity would disappear.tailwindhome said:nickice said:
Which shouldn't really be surprising for even the most ardent EU supporter. German governments get voted in by Germans etc.Stevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.
Germany has been using its spare ICU capacity to treat patients from Italy and France0 -
Deaths have more than doubled in the last 4 days, so unless they slow consistently over the next few days, we will have 20,000 by next weekend. As said above, there appears to be lower death counts at weekend. I think a peak before 10,000 deaths is unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.surrey_commuter said:Dorset_Boy said:
They were saying on R5 this morning that the doubling time is 4-5 days now.mrfpb said:Looking at the maths, if we want less than 20,000 deaths we need the peak to happen this week, before we reach 10,000 deaths.
With cases and deaths doubling every 3 days, we would hit 20,000 deaths next weekend without peaking.
That is my interpretation of the graphs and based upon the assumption that they are not massaging the death count.0 -
I don't see how that point is relevant in this instance.TheBigBean said:
There seems to be a lot of conflations between the Eurozone and the EU. That of course has been one of the criticisms recently.rick_chasey said:
It's also the Dutch & German intransigence to want to help out Italy economically too. They both have massively gained from the way the EU is structured and run and they don't seem to recognise that.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.0 -
A lot of talk that the EU looks wobbly, but it is the Eurozone that looks wobbly. It always has. There simply isn't the political unity for monetary unity.rick_chasey said:
I don't see how that point is relevant in this instance.TheBigBean said:
There seems to be a lot of conflations between the Eurozone and the EU. That of course has been one of the criticisms recently.rick_chasey said:
It's also the Dutch & German intransigence to want to help out Italy economically too. They both have massively gained from the way the EU is structured and run and they don't seem to recognise that.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.
Now, you could argue that if the Eurozone collapsed then so would the EU, and that is fair enough, but it doesn't have to.0 -
Italy leaving the EU is a big problem, and the eurozone problems are emphatically EU problems.TheBigBean said:
A lot of talk that the EU looks wobbly, but it is the Eurozone that looks wobbly. It always has. There simply isn't the political unity for monetary unity.rick_chasey said:
I don't see how that point is relevant in this instance.TheBigBean said:
There seems to be a lot of conflations between the Eurozone and the EU. That of course has been one of the criticisms recently.rick_chasey said:
It's also the Dutch & German intransigence to want to help out Italy economically too. They both have massively gained from the way the EU is structured and run and they don't seem to recognise that.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.
Now, you could argue that if the Eurozone collapsed then so would the EU, and that is fair enough, but it doesn't have to.0 -
About 4 days seems right - ignoring yesterday's low number, and looking at the number released on Saturday (24 hours to 5pm on Friday), that was 708, which is 20% of the previous day's total, so a 5 day doubling.mrfpb said:
Deaths have more than doubled in the last 4 days, so unless they slow consistently over the next few days, we will have 20,000 by next weekend. As said above, there appears to be lower death counts at weekend. I think a peak before 10,000 deaths is unlikely. I hope I'm wrong.surrey_commuter said:Dorset_Boy said:
They were saying on R5 this morning that the doubling time is 4-5 days now.mrfpb said:Looking at the maths, if we want less than 20,000 deaths we need the peak to happen this week, before we reach 10,000 deaths.
With cases and deaths doubling every 3 days, we would hit 20,000 deaths next weekend without peaking.
That is my interpretation of the graphs and based upon the assumption that they are not massaging the death count.
Average that calculation over the last few days, and you get doubling between 4 and 4.5 days.0 -
My point is that people do not understand the EU and the haters overestimate it’s powers and reach, right up until they don’t do something and then criticise them for that.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe, but it's not particularly relevant to the point here.surrey_commuter said:
And if we were still in the EU, 52% of the population would be bitching and moaning about looking after your ownStevo_666 said:
Pretty much as I was saying a few days ago on this thread.rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
It has been a return to the nation state approach in this crisis.0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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I don’t view everything through a prism of EU membership so that is not my point. My use of the word “neighbours” was geographic.ballysmate said:
See above post re crowing.surrey_commuter said:
I agree on the crowing front as that is just weird.rick_chasey said:
The prospect of nations not coming together in the face of a pandemic isn't something I would be crowing about, but whatever.ballysmate said:rick_chasey said:Article in the FT on Italian attitudes towards the EU during this.
Quote from one of the most pro-EU parties; "why do we want to stay in the US? It is useless".
Basically because no-one came to the rescue or even to help.
Mmm.
I like the smell of coffee in the morning.
But with regards to the EU is that not based upon a DM belief in it’s supranational powers.
If Italy had been hit by a devastating earthquake I am sure it’s neighbours would have offered immediate assistance. With C19 everybody (ex-UK) would have been bracing themselves for the onslaught so could reasonably claim to have nothing to offer.
Are you seriously saying that any country's offer to aid another country hit by an earthquake would be dependent on its membership of the EU?
My point is that nobody had a load of resources they weren’t going to need in a month’s time.0 -
If Ireland is anything like Scotland, this is not currently necessary. GP's are generally quiet and most people in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary are just sitting around as a lot has been cancelled to await more COVID-19 patients.tailwindhome said:0
