The big Coronavirus thread

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  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,925
    nickice said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    capt_slog said:

    bompington said:

    So here in Scotland, the CMO is in a bit of trouble for heading to her holiday home at the weekends...
    Shame, 'cos she's competent and human, but it's hard to justify isn't it. Might be hard for her job to survive as there are a lot of people looking for someone to rage at.

    If she was that competent, she wouldn't have done it.
    I find it hard to criticise what she did other than on the grounds of hypocrisy. I'm assuming she's driven from one house to another without her and her family getting out and hugging people en route.
    She's probably of the same view as most sensible people that although it might be breaking the rules (though there don't seem to be any rules as such) it wasn't a risk to anyone else. Like you say, she's the Chief Medical Officer, though.

    But the other thing is that we really don't want to be moving people from one part of the country to the other, not only as should anyone fall ill, they are putting extra strain on the host community's resources, but every transfer of people from one area to another risks spreading the virus, when it needs to be contained. It's a big issue in New York too, where the wealthy are escaping from the city to Rhode Island... given the prevalence of the virus in NYC, they really aren't welcome.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    ballysmate said:

    Only logged on to check the subject of the day worrying Rick.

    Today it’s the U.K. en route for worst Western country by deaths after the US
    _
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    capt_slog said:

    bompington said:

    So here in Scotland, the CMO is in a bit of trouble for heading to her holiday home at the weekends...
    Shame, 'cos she's competent and human, but it's hard to justify isn't it. Might be hard for her job to survive as there are a lot of people looking for someone to rage at.

    If she was that competent, she wouldn't have done it.
    I find it hard to criticise what she did other than on the grounds of hypocrisy. I'm assuming she's driven from one house to another without her and her family getting out and hugging people en route.
    She's probably of the same view as most sensible people that although it might be breaking the rules (though there don't seem to be any rules as such) it wasn't a risk to anyone else. Like you say, she's the Chief Medical Officer, though.

    But the other thing is that we really don't want to be moving people from one part of the country to the other, not only as should anyone fall ill, they are putting extra strain on the host community's resources, but every transfer of people from one area to another risks spreading the virus, when it needs to be contained. It's a big issue in New York too, where the wealthy are escaping from the city to Rhode Island... given the prevalence of the virus in NYC, they really aren't welcome.
    I understand all that but, firstly Edinburgh and Fife are very near each other, there is no evidence she put herself or anyone else at risk, either. It's not like New York (with hospitals on their knees or anything).
  • shortfall
    shortfall Posts: 3,288
    pblakeney said:

    nickice said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    capt_slog said:

    bompington said:

    So here in Scotland, the CMO is in a bit of trouble for heading to her holiday home at the weekends...
    Shame, 'cos she's competent and human, but it's hard to justify isn't it. Might be hard for her job to survive as there are a lot of people looking for someone to rage at.

    If she was that competent, she wouldn't have done it.
    I find it hard to criticise what she did other than on the grounds of hypocrisy. I'm assuming she's driven from one house to another without her and her family getting out and hugging people en route.
    She's probably of the same view as most sensible people that although it might be breaking the rules (though there don't seem to be any rules as such) it wasn't a risk to anyone else. Like you say, she's the Chief Medical Officer, though.
    Similarly, anyone here cycle more than the recommended 1 hour today?
    I know that I did. The shame.

    Me too.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,738
    edited April 2020
    The potential flipside to your (and my) rebelliousness...

    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,666
    Does the UK actually have a recommended maximum duration for your daily exercise outing?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,925
    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    capt_slog said:

    bompington said:

    So here in Scotland, the CMO is in a bit of trouble for heading to her holiday home at the weekends...
    Shame, 'cos she's competent and human, but it's hard to justify isn't it. Might be hard for her job to survive as there are a lot of people looking for someone to rage at.

    If she was that competent, she wouldn't have done it.
    I find it hard to criticise what she did other than on the grounds of hypocrisy. I'm assuming she's driven from one house to another without her and her family getting out and hugging people en route.
    She's probably of the same view as most sensible people that although it might be breaking the rules (though there don't seem to be any rules as such) it wasn't a risk to anyone else. Like you say, she's the Chief Medical Officer, though.

    But the other thing is that we really don't want to be moving people from one part of the country to the other, not only as should anyone fall ill, they are putting extra strain on the host community's resources, but every transfer of people from one area to another risks spreading the virus, when it needs to be contained. It's a big issue in New York too, where the wealthy are escaping from the city to Rhode Island... given the prevalence of the virus in NYC, they really aren't welcome.
    I understand all that but, firstly Edinburgh and Fife are very near each other, there is no evidence she put herself or anyone else at risk, either. It's not like New York (with hospitals on their knees or anything).

    The only way to make the rules work is not for each person to be able to say "yebbut..." It really is quite simple, albeit simplistic: don't travel unnecessarily. It's not hard to understand, even if we don't like it. At a time like this, simple is the only way to do it.

    I'd hate it if I were told I mustn't cycle along the deserted rural lanes near me, but I can see why it might come to that, if people abuse the 'derogation' we have at the moment. And I'd grudgingly accept it, knowing that we can't realistically have one rule for the middle of London, another rule for Bristol, and another rule for someone living on the edge of Topsham.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,623
    edited April 2020
    The hour a day is a myth. The recommendation was your normal level of exercise. So no, I'm perfectly happy with my 13 hours out on the bike this last week.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    pangolin said:

    Does the UK actually have a recommended maximum duration for your daily exercise outing?

    In the context of the current situation - no.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    briantrumpet said:

    nickice said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    capt_slog said:

    bompington said:

    So here in Scotland, the CMO is in a bit of trouble for heading to her holiday home at the weekends...
    Shame, 'cos she's competent and human, but it's hard to justify isn't it. Might be hard for her job to survive as there are a lot of people looking for someone to rage at.

    If she was that competent, she wouldn't have done it.
    I find it hard to criticise what she did other than on the grounds of hypocrisy. I'm assuming she's driven from one house to another without her and her family getting out and hugging people en route.
    She's probably of the same view as most sensible people that although it might be breaking the rules (though there don't seem to be any rules as such) it wasn't a risk to anyone else. Like you say, she's the Chief Medical Officer, though.

    But the other thing is that we really don't want to be moving people from one part of the country to the other, not only as should anyone fall ill, they are putting extra strain on the host community's resources, but every transfer of people from one area to another risks spreading the virus, when it needs to be contained. It's a big issue in New York too, where the wealthy are escaping from the city to Rhode Island... given the prevalence of the virus in NYC, they really aren't welcome.
    I understand all that but, firstly Edinburgh and Fife are very near each other, there is no evidence she put herself or anyone else at risk, either. It's not like New York (with hospitals on their knees or anything).

    The only way to make the rules work is not for each person to be able to say "yebbut..." It really is quite simple, albeit simplistic: don't travel unnecessarily. It's not hard to understand, even if we don't like it. At a time like this, simple is the only way to do it.

    I'd hate it if I were told I mustn't cycle along the deserted rural lanes near me, but I can see why it might come to that, if people abuse the 'derogation' we have at the moment. And I'd grudgingly accept it, knowing that we can't realistically have one rule for the middle of London, another rule for Bristol, and another rule for someone living on the edge of Topsham.
    To be clear, I wouldn't have done it but I don't think in the great scheme of things it's so bad.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 16,017
    See also Cyprus

    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21H2EP

    Is staying at home too much to ask of people in the UK?
    Perhaps we will need a curfew.

  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    ddraver said:

    The potential flipside to your (and my) rebelliousness...

    My problem with Matt Hancock saying he might ban exercise outside is that it seems more like a punishment rather than a public health measure. There is no good evidence that it is readily transmitted (I even had a look at the academic literature) by people sunbathing or being outside in general. In fact, it's utterly ridiculous to think it would be a large source of infection (note: I'm not saying it can never be transmitted outside) as most people would have it by now.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,680
    rick_chasey said:

    ballysmate said:

    Only logged on to check the subject of the day worrying Rick.

    Today it’s the U.K. en route for worst Western country by deaths after the US
    It was a smaller increase today wasn't it? I was hopeful until they showed the new cases chart which showed a sharp rise after a bit of a dip so maybe today's death rate reflects that dip and will rise sharply in a day or two. Hopefully the rise just reflects increased testing but much as I like to be optimistic I suspect not.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,591
    pangolin said:

    Does the UK actually have a recommended maximum duration for your daily exercise outing?

    There is no law, so you are legally free to do as you wish.
    For recommendations though,
    "No mention is given to how long you can exercise for. But Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove has said: "I would have thought for most people a walk of up to an hour, a run of 30 minutes or a cycle ride of between that, depending on their level of fitness, is appropriate.""

    It is all a grey area and as long as there is no lockdown there are areas to exploit.
    Exploit them too much though and there will be a legal lockdown.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    It’s always lower on Sunday nights because of the way its counter I believe. Might be wrong.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,287
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    ballysmate said:

    Only logged on to check the subject of the day worrying Rick.

    Today it’s the U.K. en route for worst Western country by deaths after the US
    It was a smaller increase today wasn't it? I was hopeful until they showed the new cases chart which showed a sharp rise after a bit of a dip so maybe today's death rate reflects that dip and will rise sharply in a day or two. Hopefully the rise just reflects increased testing but much as I like to be optimistic I suspect not.
    March 29th and 30th were lower than March 28th. March 22nd and 23rd were lower than March 21st.

    I've a feeling it's just that it's the weekend affects the reporting.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    edited April 2020



    The only way to make the rules work is not for each person to be able to say "yebbut..." It really is quite simple, albeit simplistic: don't travel unnecessarily. It's not hard to understand, even if we don't like it. At a time like this, simple is the only way to do it.

    I'd hate it if I were told I mustn't cycle along the deserted rural lanes near me, but I can see why it might come to that, if people abuse the 'derogation' we have at the moment. And I'd grudgingly accept it, knowing that we can't realistically have one rule for the middle of London, another rule for Bristol, and another rule for someone living on the edge of Topsham.


    To come back to this, having local rules would be no worse than what we have now and would probably mean the public would support a lockdown for longer. If the problem is parks in London (or other big cities) a more proportionate measure would be to close those parks or police them better. By-laws already exist to deal with local issues.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    France’s death curve is better than Spain’s or Italy’s so perhaps it’s punitive stay-at-home policy is helping that.
    _
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    ballysmate said:

    See also Cyprus

    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21H2EP

    Is staying at home too much to ask of people in the UK?
    Perhaps we will need a curfew.

    There is already a curfew in my town between 10pm and 5am. That, I believe, is not a particularly disproportionate measure as some of the young people in certain areas were abusing it.
  • Jeremy.89
    Jeremy.89 Posts: 457
    rick_chasey said:

    It’s always lower on Sunday nights because of the way its counter I believe. Might be wrong.

    Various things seem to suggest that the way it's counted isn't ideal.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Jeremy.89 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It’s always lower on Sunday nights because of the way its counter I believe. Might be wrong.

    Various things seem to suggest that the way it's counted isn't ideal.
    Afaik France counts in the same way as everyone else.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,947
    rick_chasey said:

    ballysmate said:

    Only logged on to check the subject of the day worrying Rick.

    Today it’s the U.K. en route for worst Western country by deaths after the US
    I don't see that based on the latest stats:
    https://worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    Can you explain the basis for that claim?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,110
    Just had a call from my mum saying my dad has been taken in to hospital with breathing difficulties. I don't *think* it's C19 but who knows, he's not allowed visitors so unless he comes out I wont see him again, hopefully he will but he is extremely frail with a very weak heart and associated ills so if he contracts the virus in hospital he wouldn't survive.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Jeremy.89
    Jeremy.89 Posts: 457
    rick_chasey said:

    Jeremy.89 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    It’s always lower on Sunday nights because of the way its counter I believe. Might be wrong.

    Various things seem to suggest that the way it's counted isn't ideal.
    Afaik France counts in the same way as everyone else.
    I was referring to the UK counting...sorry it's a guardian link

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/why-what-we-think-we-know-about-the-uks-coronavirus-death-toll-is-wrong

    Hopefully this week we might get some indication that the measures are having an effect.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    Vague hope of a cure

    https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/anti-parasitic-drug-killed-coronavirus-within-48-hours-in-lab-australian-scientists
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,591
    DeVlaeminck said:

    Just had a call from my mum saying my dad has been taken in to hospital with breathing difficulties. I don't *think* it's C19 but who knows, he's not allowed visitors so unless he comes out I wont see him again, hopefully he will but he is extremely frail with a very weak heart and associated ills so if he contracts the virus in hospital he wouldn't survive.

    Sad to hear. Fingers crossed.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,471
    edited April 2020
    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    ballysmate said:

    Only logged on to check the subject of the day worrying Rick.

    Today it’s the U.K. en route for worst Western country by deaths after the US
    I don't see that based on the latest stats:
    https://worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    Can you explain the basis for that claim?
    I assume he's referring to the slope of the UK line.
    Still not flattening.




    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Pross said:

    Those who have suggested we could possibly regionalise lockdown and relax it in areas with low infection rates. How do you propose preventing travel between highly affected areas and low affected areas? Surely everyone is going to want to escape to areas where the relaxations are lifted and spread the virus? It would need far more Draconian policing than at present and would be similar to what Italy initially tried to do in restricting lockdown to the worst affected area in the north - that wasn't very successful.

    Firstly anybody who wanted to hibernate and had the resources to do so will have moved already to avoid a painful death rather than wait and to it to avoid some inconvenience.

    Secondly where would they stay?

    Thirdly you don’t understand most urbanites dislike of the sticks.

    Fourthly 99% of the population would not disobey and you can not base legislation around the non-compliance of the 1%
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,891
    edited April 2020
    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    ballysmate said:

    Only logged on to check the subject of the day worrying Rick.

    Today it’s the U.K. en route for worst Western country by deaths after the US
    I don't see that based on the latest stats:
    https://worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    Can you explain the basis for that claim?
    Our 'trajectory' is higher than Spain or Italy at the 'equivalent' time but there are so many unknowns it's difficult to say what that means. Based on the regional graphs, Lombardy Madrid and Catalonia are all 'worse' than London or the West Midlands so I think that means our outbreak(s) is/are more spread out, but it's all too soon to tell.

    On the death rates, from what I have read these are deaths reported on a given day, not deaths occurring on that day. There is no set time scale for reporting so there is quite a bit of noise in the figures.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    We are in a solid 5th place for deaths, I can’t see us chasing down Italy or Spain.

    Anybody have any theories on the countries at the top of the chart. Is the similarity temperate climates or is it being wealthy enough to know what people die of?

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