Scot Indy Ref #2
Comments
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The fact that your views are watered down by lots of others is literally the entire point of democracy. At some point you have to sign up to something outside of the 100 or so people you happen to live near or the place would be f*cking mental.0
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Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The proportion is falling (slowly, with a slight up-tick in the last couple of years https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/) but the absolute value has increased. At the same time, our imports from the EU have increased relative to the rest of the world.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/trade-the-numbers/1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not disputing what you said there (or vice versa I think).rjsterry said:
The proportion is falling (slowly, with a slight up-tick in the last couple of years https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/) but the absolute value has increased. At the same time, our imports from the EU have increased relative to the rest of the world.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/trade-the-numbers/
The points that I was making were:
1. The much higher relative dependence of Scotland on the UK for export income compared to UK dependence on the EU.
2. The longer term trend of falling UK dependence on exports to the EU."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Agreed. Wonder what Scots imports from rUK are doing.Stevo_666 said:
Not disputing what you said there (or vice versa I think).rjsterry said:
The proportion is falling (slowly, with a slight up-tick in the last couple of years https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/) but the absolute value has increased. At the same time, our imports from the EU have increased relative to the rest of the world.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/trade-the-numbers/
The points that I was making were:
1. The much higher relative dependence of Scotland on the UK for export income compared to UK dependence on the EU.
2. The longer term trend of falling UK dependence on exports to the EU.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Going up consistently in absolute terms although not sure about the percentages:rjsterry said:
Agreed. Wonder what Scots imports from rUK are doing.Stevo_666 said:
Not disputing what you said there (or vice versa I think).rjsterry said:
The proportion is falling (slowly, with a slight up-tick in the last couple of years https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/) but the absolute value has increased. At the same time, our imports from the EU have increased relative to the rest of the world.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/trade-the-numbers/
The points that I was making were:
1. The much higher relative dependence of Scotland on the UK for export income compared to UK dependence on the EU.
2. The longer term trend of falling UK dependence on exports to the EU.
https://statista.com/statistics/348525/scotland-imports-origin-uk/"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Would Sweaties have to apply to some sort of settlement scheme to carry on living here?
How's about it 'Loon?
And more pertinently, would we have to have Pinno back?0 -
I think that's what you might call mixed emotionsballysmate said:Would Sweaties have to apply to some sort of settlement scheme to carry on living here?
How's about it 'Loon?
And more pertinently, would we have to have Pinno back?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Aye you lot will be able to apply your hostile immigration policy to everyone now not just the non Europeans. Are you proud of what you did to the Windrush folk? Want to take it to the next level. Fill your boots.
I’ll just quote some dialogue from the film Trainspotting. “It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in,”0 -
Bit of an odd thing to say for someone who wants to put a border up between England and Scotland.aberdeen_lune said:Aye you lot will be able to apply your hostile immigration policy to everyone now not just the non Europeans. Are you proud of what you did to the Windrush folk? Want to take it to the next level. Fill your boots.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Entirely the same principal.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.0 -
It's a big difference in the facts and I draw a different conclusion basd on those.rick_chasey said:
Entirely the same principal.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
The UK is more international and less dependent on one trading partner. And the trends are reinforcing that."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The only people I’ve heard saying they want a hard border are people south of it probably to keep us out, don’t blame them.Stevo_666 said:
Not an odd thing to say at all. We want our own immigration policy. We need more immigrants to work in our NHS, make our curries, pick our berries, work and study in our Universities and we have no intention of treating them badly like you lot do.
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In what way is it not the same principal?Stevo_666 said:
It's a big difference in the facts and I draw a different conclusion basd on those.rick_chasey said:
Entirely the same principal.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
The UK is more international and less dependent on one trading partner. And the trends are reinforcing that.
Over 2/5th come from one single market. Next biggest market doesn’t even come to half that.0 -
Question of degree, clearly.rick_chasey said:
In what way is it not the same principal?Stevo_666 said:
It's a big difference in the facts and I draw a different conclusion basd on those.rick_chasey said:
Entirely the same principal.Stevo_666 said:
Not exactly - a quick google shows the rest of the UK accounts for approx 64% of all Scottish exports, whereas the EU accounts for approx 45% (and falling even pre-Brexit) of all UK exports.rick_chasey said:
If you're an internationalist Scot you're between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, Scotland is an awful lot smaller than the UK so its horizons also ought to be smaller; involvment in the UK market is still more critical than involvement with the EU, for all the same reasons the UK's relationship with the EU is more critical than its relationship with the rest of the world.
The UK is more international and less dependent on one trading partner. And the trends are reinforcing that.
Over 2/5th come from one single market. Next biggest market doesn’t even come to half that.
And we've already had the debate about the EU being on market. I look at countries not trading blocs."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's as much yours as it is mine, mate.aberdeen_lune said:Aye you lot will be able to apply your hostile immigration policy to everyone now not just the non Europeans. Are you proud of what you did to the Windrush folk? Want to take it to the next level. Fill your boots.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.0
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Pretty sure only some of the voters in Patel's constituency voted for her. Pretty hilarious that in one sentence you decry May and Patel for their stance on immigration and in the next refer to everyone south of Gretna Green as "you lot". Take a look at the people the SNP sit alongside.aberdeen_lune said:Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You have to remember that the whole point of nationalism is that We are good, moral, righteous and superior people, unlike Them - those horrible semi-fascist nationalists in nasty countries like England.rjsterry said:
Pretty sure only some of the voters in Patel's constituency voted for her. Pretty hilarious that in one sentence you decry May and Patel for their stance on immigration and in the next refer to everyone south of Gretna Green as "you lot". Take a look at the people the SNP sit alongside.aberdeen_lune said:Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe
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It is literally called that, sure.rick_chasey said:Stevo_666 said:
And we've already had the debate about the EU being on market. I look at countries not trading blocs.
IT'S LITERALLY A SINGLE MARKET.
But each of the 27/28 individual nation states in that market has its own laws and 'wrinkles' that means you cannot treat it as one commercially. Practical example: we have our European logistics and distribution centre in the Netherlands. Before our hardware can be distributed from there to each of our sales companies in the different EU countries, the kit needs to be individually configured for the specific country/market. (The fact that have to have sales companies or dealers in each different territory is pretty telling for starters).
Also do you include EFTA countries? Turkey?
If you're going to lump together a bunch of countries on the basis that there are fewer barriers to trading between them than others, then I'm fine to lump together others, like say 'Rest of the world' - which is then bigger. Clearly you don't like the fact that the US is the country we export the most to in terms of value."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Only if you don't distinguish between the states, which can have different laws, standards and taxes.1
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How condescending. Bet your a schoolteacher. I used to hate the condescending teachers at school.bompington said:
You have to remember that the whole point of nationalism is that We are good, moral, righteous and superior people, unlike Them - those horrible semi-fascist nationalists in nasty countries like England.rjsterry said:
Pretty sure only some of the voters in Patel's constituency voted for her. Pretty hilarious that in one sentence you decry May and Patel for their stance on immigration and in the next refer to everyone south of Gretna Green as "you lot". Take a look at the people the SNP sit alongside.aberdeen_lune said:Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe0 -
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So explain to me how what I said is not true.aberdeen_lune said:
How condescending. Bet your a schoolteacher. I used to hate the condescending teachers at school.bompington said:
You have to remember that the whole point of nationalism is that We are good, moral, righteous and superior people, unlike Them - those horrible semi-fascist nationalists in nasty countries like England.rjsterry said:
Pretty sure only some of the voters in Patel's constituency voted for her. Pretty hilarious that in one sentence you decry May and Patel for their stance on immigration and in the next refer to everyone south of Gretna Green as "you lot". Take a look at the people the SNP sit alongside.aberdeen_lune said:Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe
And yes, if you didn't already know I am a teacher: the fight against ignorance is my daily battle.0 -
Like in Europe...kingstongraham said:Only if you don't distinguish between the states, which can have different laws, standards and taxes.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So, what differentiates you, a Scot, from me, an Englishman? Aside from you being born in one bit of the UK and me in another?aberdeen_lune said:
How condescending. Bet your a schoolteacher. I used to hate the condescending teachers at school.bompington said:
You have to remember that the whole point of nationalism is that We are good, moral, righteous and superior people, unlike Them - those horrible semi-fascist nationalists in nasty countries like England.rjsterry said:
Pretty sure only some of the voters in Patel's constituency voted for her. Pretty hilarious that in one sentence you decry May and Patel for their stance on immigration and in the next refer to everyone south of Gretna Green as "you lot". Take a look at the people the SNP sit alongside.aberdeen_lune said:Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Nothing I don’t believe in racial superiority.0
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Your not supposed to be battling against ignorance. Your supposed to be encouraging and enthusing young people in an open learning environment.bompington said:
So explain to me how what I said is not true.aberdeen_lune said:
How condescending. Bet your a schoolteacher. I used to hate the condescending teachers at school.bompington said:
You have to remember that the whole point of nationalism is that We are good, moral, righteous and superior people, unlike Them - those horrible semi-fascist nationalists in nasty countries like England.rjsterry said:
Pretty sure only some of the voters in Patel's constituency voted for her. Pretty hilarious that in one sentence you decry May and Patel for their stance on immigration and in the next refer to everyone south of Gretna Green as "you lot". Take a look at the people the SNP sit alongside.aberdeen_lune said:Hardly, that’s why we need to take back control. You lot keep voting in right wing Home Secretary’s like Theresa May and Pritti Patel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_nationalist_parties_in_Europe
And yes, if you didn't already know I am a teacher: the fight against ignorance is my daily battle.1 -
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA0
