LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
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No, but that isn't what I said. It is probably true that some generations get out more, but is getting close to a poester's hobby horse.kingstongraham said:Do you think everyone gets out more than they pay in?
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Average lifetime tax contribution seems to be around £700-800k depending on who you ask.TheBigBean said:
He's got to pay for all the other stuff that governments do as well. His childhood edcuation repayment comes from all of his tax currently being wasted on other people's children. Likewise his NHS savings account is built up out of his tax that goes to the NHS. It's an unknown whether he will need very expensive treatment at some point.surrey_commuter said:
Am intrigued by this discussion so have tried to put some rudimentary sums together in today’s moneyTheBigBean said:
For now. You may become very expensive at some point for the reasons I mentioned. Or you may not, in which case, congrats, but you'll be dead when that is finally decided.kingstongraham said:
Let me put it another way. If someone like me doesn't put in more than I get out, the country is screwed.TheBigBean said:
A state pension is money coming in and may exceed your tax paid at that point, but basically dying is very expensive, so it all depends how you go. There is some stat around percentage of money the NHS spends on the final year of someone's life, and it's significant. There's also potential costs of nursing homes.kingstongraham said:
I don't understand why I won't be mostly paying my own way (and tax) in retirement also.TheBigBean said:
Excellent. If you have a quick death prior to retirement, I'll let you complain about it.kingstongraham said:
Trust me, I'm a long way in credit.TheBigBean said:
Even if you have now repaid the cost of all the schools, being born and spending a good week in hospital, child benefit your parents received etc. then you need to start getting into credit to fund your retirement costs. Unfortunately, you won't know how much they will be in advance.kingstongraham said:
If that was the calculation, I've reckon I've paid that off a long time ago. How much does a university course cost?TheBigBean said:
To repay your debt for the education you received.kingstongraham said:I pay shitloads to educate other people's kids.
Child benefit £1k pa x 18 = £18k
Education £5k pa x 13 = £65k
Pension £9k pa x 15 =£135k
He might get close to that on SDLT, Chuck in income tax, NI, VAT and Duty and he could have chipped multiples of that number.
This also may be useful.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201527.pdf
Fig 3.3, I think.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
That's the thing with Ponzi schemes. Those in early win, those joining later pay for it. Anyone thinking this country isn't a Ponzi scheme with borrowing to keep it afloat isn't paying attention.TheBigBean said:
No, but that isn't what I said. It is probably true that some generations get out more, but is getting close to a poester's hobby horse.kingstongraham said:Do you think everyone gets out more than they pay in?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.2 -
That graph starts at 18, so ignores children being recipients. Still, it shows that at KingstonGraham is at the bottom of the curve now.rjsterry said:
Average lifetime tax contribution seems to be around £700-800k depending on who you ask.TheBigBean said:
He's got to pay for all the other stuff that governments do as well. His childhood edcuation repayment comes from all of his tax currently being wasted on other people's children. Likewise his NHS savings account is built up out of his tax that goes to the NHS. It's an unknown whether he will need very expensive treatment at some point.surrey_commuter said:
Am intrigued by this discussion so have tried to put some rudimentary sums together in today’s moneyTheBigBean said:
For now. You may become very expensive at some point for the reasons I mentioned. Or you may not, in which case, congrats, but you'll be dead when that is finally decided.kingstongraham said:
Let me put it another way. If someone like me doesn't put in more than I get out, the country is screwed.TheBigBean said:
A state pension is money coming in and may exceed your tax paid at that point, but basically dying is very expensive, so it all depends how you go. There is some stat around percentage of money the NHS spends on the final year of someone's life, and it's significant. There's also potential costs of nursing homes.kingstongraham said:
I don't understand why I won't be mostly paying my own way (and tax) in retirement also.TheBigBean said:
Excellent. If you have a quick death prior to retirement, I'll let you complain about it.kingstongraham said:
Trust me, I'm a long way in credit.TheBigBean said:
Even if you have now repaid the cost of all the schools, being born and spending a good week in hospital, child benefit your parents received etc. then you need to start getting into credit to fund your retirement costs. Unfortunately, you won't know how much they will be in advance.kingstongraham said:
If that was the calculation, I've reckon I've paid that off a long time ago. How much does a university course cost?TheBigBean said:
To repay your debt for the education you received.kingstongraham said:I pay shitloads to educate other people's kids.
Child benefit £1k pa x 18 = £18k
Education £5k pa x 13 = £65k
Pension £9k pa x 15 =£135k
He might get close to that on SDLT, Chuck in income tax, NI, VAT and Duty and he could have chipped multiples of that number.
This also may be useful.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201527.pdf
Fig 3.3, I think.
Also, presumably it will invite comments about how some people have paid that much in tax already ignoring that they could also end up receiving more than average.0 -
That's cash benefits, but an interesting doc nonetheless.TheBigBean said:
That graph starts at 18, so ignores children being recipients. Still, it shows that at KingstonGraham is at the bottom of the curve now.rjsterry said:
Average lifetime tax contribution seems to be around £700-800k depending on who you ask.TheBigBean said:
He's got to pay for all the other stuff that governments do as well. His childhood edcuation repayment comes from all of his tax currently being wasted on other people's children. Likewise his NHS savings account is built up out of his tax that goes to the NHS. It's an unknown whether he will need very expensive treatment at some point.surrey_commuter said:
Am intrigued by this discussion so have tried to put some rudimentary sums together in today’s moneyTheBigBean said:
For now. You may become very expensive at some point for the reasons I mentioned. Or you may not, in which case, congrats, but you'll be dead when that is finally decided.kingstongraham said:
Let me put it another way. If someone like me doesn't put in more than I get out, the country is screwed.TheBigBean said:
A state pension is money coming in and may exceed your tax paid at that point, but basically dying is very expensive, so it all depends how you go. There is some stat around percentage of money the NHS spends on the final year of someone's life, and it's significant. There's also potential costs of nursing homes.kingstongraham said:
I don't understand why I won't be mostly paying my own way (and tax) in retirement also.TheBigBean said:
Excellent. If you have a quick death prior to retirement, I'll let you complain about it.kingstongraham said:
Trust me, I'm a long way in credit.TheBigBean said:
Even if you have now repaid the cost of all the schools, being born and spending a good week in hospital, child benefit your parents received etc. then you need to start getting into credit to fund your retirement costs. Unfortunately, you won't know how much they will be in advance.kingstongraham said:
If that was the calculation, I've reckon I've paid that off a long time ago. How much does a university course cost?TheBigBean said:
To repay your debt for the education you received.kingstongraham said:I pay shitloads to educate other people's kids.
Child benefit £1k pa x 18 = £18k
Education £5k pa x 13 = £65k
Pension £9k pa x 15 =£135k
He might get close to that on SDLT, Chuck in income tax, NI, VAT and Duty and he could have chipped multiples of that number.
This also may be useful.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201527.pdf
Fig 3.3, I think.
Also, presumably it will invite comments about how some people have paid that much in tax already ignoring that they could also end up receiving more than average.0 -
True. Have you told your Facebook friends that they are deluded?Jezyboy said:Stevo will be pleased to hear that the young Labour fans on my Facebook have decided that what is wrong with Starmer is that he's white straight and middle aged.
The sort of approach that will really win back any floating voters."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It has not worked that well this approach on the bike radar forum.Stevo_666 said:
True. Have you told your Facebook friends that they are deluded?Jezyboy said:Stevo will be pleased to hear that the young Labour fans on my Facebook have decided that what is wrong with Starmer is that he's white straight and middle aged.
The sort of approach that will really win back any floating voters.1 -
What if Brexit didn't give Boris an 80 seat majority?
What if Brexit limited his majority at 80,and that limiting factor has been removed?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
😆john80 said:
It has not worked that well this approach on the bike radar forum.Stevo_666 said:
True. Have you told your Facebook friends that they are deluded?Jezyboy said:Stevo will be pleased to hear that the young Labour fans on my Facebook have decided that what is wrong with Starmer is that he's white straight and middle aged.
The sort of approach that will really win back any floating voters.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
One for Rick and Stevo: local elections in Surrey and Kent, the Conservatives are losing quite a few seats with the LibDems and Greens seeing the benefit.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I don't like to dismiss history any more than you but there are moments when you have to accept that what has been for a long time can become irrelevant pretty quickly and for me the Hartlepool by-election is one of those moments. Brexit has been so seismic that pointing to how an area voted even in the 00's tells you very little.rick_chasey said:
It’s been labour for a long time.verylonglegs said:Why is a constituency that was nearly 70% leave voting then following it up with a vote for UKIP in all by name at a by-election newsworthy? Surely it would have been a surprise and therefore worth talking about if they had elected a Labour MP?
Labour also got a spanking on all sides in local elections1 -
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Because people are happier to vote with their true leanings in local elections.rick_chasey said:
Tories lost control of the county council here too, all to LDs.rjsterry said:One for Rick and Stevo: local elections in Surrey and Kent, the Conservatives are losing quite a few seats with the LibDems and Greens seeing the benefit.
Have always wondered why LDs continue to do well at local level.
GE’s are totally distorted by fptp and the need to avoid certain outcomes/wasted vote scenario.0 -
SE England - big remainer areas. Won't vote Labour, not happy with Boris and Brexit, so the Lim Dems pick up their 'protest vote', coupled with the Lib Dems generally being OK in local government.0
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On the BBC right now interviewing a father and son.
Son a tory voter and business owner, dad traditional lifelong labour voter. Dad disappointed in exactly way you'd expect and lamenting direction of labour and loss of services e.g. police etc. under conservatives.
Son then pipes up saying he had to select hospital carefully for childbirth due to lack of doctors at hospitals.
It's just weird.0 -
A bit of conjecture...
Is the disinterest in large scale manufacturing a conscious decision to break down the traditional labour heartlands and not just simple economics at work.
Not saying it definitely is, just contemplating. If you look at the old industrial areas, that cohesion built around the industrial plants and unionisation was the stranglehold on labour voting with consistent lines of communication. It simply doesn't exist anymore.0 -
Yes I mean I've seen it said that Hartlepool was inevitably going Tory as UKIP split the Tory vote last time. As if these voters were long time Tories who are just returning to the fold rather than traditional Labour voters who have deserting the party first for UKIP now Conservative.tailwindhome said:What if Brexit didn't give Boris an 80 seat majority?
What if Brexit limited his majority at 80,and that limiting factor has been removed?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I do think there must be a way for boring competency to gain traction. But perhaps that's too dull for 140 characters.morstar said:On the BBC right now interviewing a father and son.
Son a tory voter and business owner, dad traditional lifelong labour voter. Dad disappointed in exactly way you'd expect and lamenting direction of labour and loss of services e.g. police etc. under conservatives.
Son then pipes up saying he had to select hospital carefully for childbirth due to lack of doctors at hospitals.
It's just weird.
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Nah he seems happy in his delusion that everyone is super on board with every aspect of modern social justice. It would be cruel to take that away from him.Stevo_666 said:
True. Have you told your Facebook friends that they are deluded?Jezyboy said:Stevo will be pleased to hear that the young Labour fans on my Facebook have decided that what is wrong with Starmer is that he's white straight and middle aged.
The sort of approach that will really win back any floating voters.
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I think that only now happens when the corruption and incompetence of the incumbents becomes too great to bear.Jezyboy said:
I do think there must be a way for boring competency to gain traction. But perhaps that's too dull for 140 characters.morstar said:On the BBC right now interviewing a father and son.
Son a tory voter and business owner, dad traditional lifelong labour voter. Dad disappointed in exactly way you'd expect and lamenting direction of labour and loss of services e.g. police etc. under conservatives.
Son then pipes up saying he had to select hospital carefully for childbirth due to lack of doctors at hospitals.
It's just weird.0 -
Wales voted leave and stayed with Labour. There's certainly been a big boost for the leaders with the volume of media coverage which shouldn't be overlooked.0
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He is going to be destitute.
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Surfing a wave all the way to the rocks is a risky strategy too.kingstongraham said:He is going to be destitute.
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Sure. I’m just giving a reason why it’s newsworthyverylonglegs said:
I don't like to dismiss history any more than you but there are moments when you have to accept that what has been for a long time can become irrelevant pretty quickly and for me the Hartlepool by-election is one of those moments. Brexit has been so seismic that pointing to how an area voted even in the 00's tells you very little.rick_chasey said:
It’s been labour for a long time.verylonglegs said:Why is a constituency that was nearly 70% leave voting then following it up with a vote for UKIP in all by name at a by-election newsworthy? Surely it would have been a surprise and therefore worth talking about if they had elected a Labour MP?
Labour also got a spanking on all sides in local elections0 -
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Yeah, the Plaid leader was making the point it was a challenging election for them when the Labour leader was on TV daily (and is generally considered to have done a reasonable job). Labour has increased their majority and effectively have overall control now. Lib Dems managed to get a regional seat, it looked like there might only be 3 parties in the Senedd yesterdaykingstongraham said:Wales voted leave and stayed with Labour. There's certainly been a big boost for the leaders with the volume of media coverage which shouldn't be overlooked.
The collapse of UKIP has also had a very big influence on all results.0 -
It does help when Boris has been on a prime channel in a prime slot, in what seems like every day since Covid began, with two people either side of him to make him seem competent.Pross said:
Yeah, the Plaid leader was making the point it was a challenging election for them when the Labour leader was on TV daily (and is generally considered to have done a reasonable job). Labour has increased their majority and effectively have overall control now. Lib Dems managed to get a regional seat, it looked like there might only be 3 parties in the Senedd yesterdaykingstongraham said:Wales voted leave and stayed with Labour. There's certainly been a big boost for the leaders with the volume of media coverage which shouldn't be overlooked.
The collapse of UKIP has also had a very big influence on all results.0 -
I think we can all agree that the humiliation of Jayda Fransen, receiving just the 46 votes in Glasgow, is a good thing.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!3
