LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

1…10091010101210141015…1128

Comments

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited October 2023
    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Conservative Chair of the London Assembly has just been kicked out of Braverman's speech while saying quite quietly that it was a homophobic rant.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited October 2023
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
    With all due respect, isn’t that survivorship bias?

    You’re not very likely to come across non-integrated people. That’s kinda the point.
    _
  • evil_breakfast
    evil_breakfast Posts: 466
    kingstongraham said:

    Conservative Chair of the London Assembly has just been kicked out of Braverman's speech while saying quite quietly that it was a homophobic rant.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709219717175533621?s=20

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709225668238512469?s=20
    You're the light wiping out my batteries; You're the cream in my airport coffee's.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
    With all due respect, isn’t that survivorship bias?

    You’re not very likely to come across non-integrated people. That’s kinda the point.
    I don't think so, but even if it is, why should I worry? If I don't interact with people that are not integrated, how can it be a problem for me?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
    I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    evil_breakfast said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Conservative Chair of the London Assembly has just been kicked out of Braverman's speech while saying quite quietly that it was a homophobic rant.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709219717175533621?s=20

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709225668238512469?s=20
    Why the hell are the police assisting in removing him? It's not a public order issue.
  • evil_breakfast
    evil_breakfast Posts: 466
    Would have thought that GMP would be on a mission to salvage a battered reputation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66323840

    However, Steve Bray's had his collar felt at CPC, some coaches have been pulled over for "a friendly chat"
    And now this. 'Policing by consent' is taking a 'ell of a beating
    We really are at a turning point here IMO

    You're the light wiping out my batteries; You're the cream in my airport coffee's.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    Pross said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
    I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.
    Bloody Welsh speakers😁

  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,223
    Pross said:

    evil_breakfast said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Conservative Chair of the London Assembly has just been kicked out of Braverman's speech while saying quite quietly that it was a homophobic rant.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709219717175533621?s=20

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709225668238512469?s=20
    Why the hell are the police assisting in removing him? It's not a public order issue.
    This is exactly the problem with today's Conservative party. The ones talking sensibly are being thrown out. The ones spouting offensive nonsense are given the stage. It's like what Keir Starmers has just done to the Labour party in reverse.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    I can't see how anyone felt that removing a (politely) dissenting voice would be a good look. The police should only be there to ensure security and public safety and certainly shouldn't be getting involved.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
    With all due respect, isn’t that survivorship bias?

    You’re not very likely to come across non-integrated people. That’s kinda the point.
    I deal with plenty of construction trades with very limited or no English. Doesn't seem to be too much of a problem so long as the foreman and I can chat. It's also useful having a few languages in the office.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,348
    Pross said:

    evil_breakfast said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Conservative Chair of the London Assembly has just been kicked out of Braverman's speech while saying quite quietly that it was a homophobic rant.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709219717175533621?s=20

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1709225668238512469?s=20
    Why the hell are the police assisting in removing him? It's not a public order issue.
    state security suppressing dissent, standard practice in countries with authoritarian regimes

    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    One for FA.



    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,348
    kingstongraham said:

    Pross said:

    I thought the fact checker above must surely be wrong but just checked and it is true. It just shows how pointless such a short internal flight is. The train journey is around 2 hours 10 minutes so definitely no time saving. I guess if you're a Minister you don't have to worry about things like security checks or check-in times.

    If you pay, you can avoid any of that nonsense. https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/business-travel/articles/the-first-wing

    first wing security can get so backed up that it's quicker to head for fast track security, plus domestic flights are usually at the other end of t5

    the real fwing benefit is they take ones bikebox to oversize baggage for one, so that one can relax and pass straight through into the flounge for one's bubbly :smiley:
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Pross said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.
    I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.
    How does it affect you? Are you offended by English speaking children taking care of their parents?
  • bikes_and_dogs
    bikes_and_dogs Posts: 130
    edited October 2023
    Let's consider a family with two children. We'll call the children North and South. They've both been promised a brand new car (HS2). However after "careful consideration" South is getting a brand new Merc and North is having their battered Ford Fiesta serviced and valeted.
    Probably not a wholly accurate analogy but perceptions are important. I've voted Conservative for a long time. Scrapping the Northern leg of HS2 will change that.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    rjsterry said:

    One for FA.



    Thank goodness they are rescuing science from something else that's not happening.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Lest we view the past with rose tinted glasses

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    bikes_and_dogs said:

    Let's consider a family with two children. We'll call the children North and South. They've both been promised a brand new car (HS2). However after "careful consideration" South is getting a brand new Merc and North is having their battered Ford Fiesta serviced and valeted.
    Probably not a wholly accurate analogy but perceptions are important. I've voted Conservative for a long time. Scrapping the Northern leg of HS2 will change that.

    It's news to me that the ford is getting a service and valet to be fair.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    This is genuinely epic, all of this.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?
    I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    bikes_and_dogs said:

    Let's consider a family with two children. We'll call the children North and South. They've both been promised a brand new car (HS2). However after "careful consideration" South is getting a brand new Merc and North is having their battered Ford Fiesta serviced and valeted.
    Probably not a wholly accurate analogy but perceptions are important. I've voted Conservative for a long time. Scrapping the Northern leg of HS2 will change that.

    I'm happy you have seen the light, but saddened that it took HS2 rather than the token consideration of the rest of the UK by every single Tory government in our lifetimes to persuade you.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Free speech champion thinks someone needs to be forgiven for disagreeing with her.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    webboo said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?
    I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.
    Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    kingstongraham said:

    Free speech champion thinks someone needs to be forgiven for disagreeing with her.

    I would imagine he thinks the little homophobe can go f*** herself.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    rjsterry said:

    webboo said:

    rjsterry said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.

    Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.

    We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
    How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?
    I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.
    Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?
    Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?

    Is this a speaking English thing?

Categories