LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

pblakeney

Jezyboy said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

I bet those Red Wall voters that backed the Tories last time are pleased with their decision.

Anyway Rishi isn’t going to be rushed into anything which I take to mean he’ll cancel it when it is too late to actually stop anything and will rely on Labour saying they’re going to restart it.

Then blame labour for the disaster, or take credit for the initiative.

Meh, Labour can will blame many all of the future problems on the Tory party.

FTFY.
Was always thus, and will remain so. 13 years worth to turn around.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

I mean hand wringing aside, won't Labour be poised to make the announcement that it will go ahead about 5 mins after Sunak cancels it? So this whole thing is just an exercise in how bad it will play out for the Tories.

I think that, along with the pledges to cancel the ban on pork scratchings, and allow local councils to create more parking spaces outside the off-licence, the Tory's genuinely though that the idea to cancel HS2 would be met with a chorus of "about time".

If you think Labour are going to commit to anything at all that might cost money, I think you're mistaken.

Nothing must be possible to be costed and used to say they can't afford it without increasing taxes.

briantrumpet

Wrecker Frost gets fact-checked. Living up to his name, he wants to wreck the climate too.

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1708774126159114682

Pross

I thought the fact checker above must surely be wrong but just checked and it is true. It just shows how pointless such a short internal flight is. The train journey is around 2 hours 10 minutes so definitely no time saving. I guess if you're a Minister you don't have to worry about things like security checks or check-in times.

TheBigBean

I think the flight would be 30 mins if it could land straight away without doing circuits of London.

kingstongraham

Pross said:

I thought the fact checker above must surely be wrong but just checked and it is true. It just shows how pointless such a short internal flight is. The train journey is around 2 hours 10 minutes so definitely no time saving. I guess if you're a Minister you don't have to worry about things like security checks or check-in times.

If you pay, you can avoid any of that nonsense. https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/business-travel/articles/the-first-wing

pblakeney

I thought the flight was a private charter so 30 minutes is possible.
Worst possible case for the planet though. #fucknetzero

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

I thought the flight was a private charter so 30 minutes is possible.
Worst possible case for the planet though. #fucknetzero

No, the article says it was BA1372 from Heathrow terminal 5.

If he was going on Saturday, the trains were royally screwed, but he could have shown some solidarity with drivers, surely?

kingstongraham

Whatever you think it used to be, the party's over. Would anyone be massively surprised if Farage tried to become a Conservative MP and then leader? He'd win the vote of members if he could get that far.

https://twitter.com/NicholasPegg/status/1709101246882132069

verylonglegs

I've been calling them ukip for a while now, they have not been the Conservative party for a few years and I don't see any sign of them returning to it in the near future.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

I mean hand wringing aside, won't Labour be poised to make the announcement that it will go ahead about 5 mins after Sunak cancels it? So this whole thing is just an exercise in how bad it will play out for the Tories.

I think that, along with the pledges to cancel the ban on pork scratchings, and allow local councils to create more parking spaces outside the off-licence, the Tory's genuinely though that the idea to cancel HS2 would be met with a chorus of "about time".

If you think Labour are going to commit to anything at all that might cost money, I think you're mistaken.

Nothing must be possible to be costed and used to say they can't afford it without increasing taxes.

I think you have this wrong to be honest. Manchester is booming despite the Tories, not because of them, and there's a large population and a lot of parliamentary seats associated with both of the rail projects. Having money spent on your region tends to be a vote winner.

Living in London, you wouldn't know any different.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

I mean hand wringing aside, won't Labour be poised to make the announcement that it will go ahead about 5 mins after Sunak cancels it? So this whole thing is just an exercise in how bad it will play out for the Tories.

I think that, along with the pledges to cancel the ban on pork scratchings, and allow local councils to create more parking spaces outside the off-licence, the Tory's genuinely though that the idea to cancel HS2 would be met with a chorus of "about time".

If you think Labour are going to commit to anything at all that might cost money, I think you're mistaken.

Nothing must be possible to be costed and used to say they can't afford it without increasing taxes.

I think you have this wrong to be honest. Manchester is booming despite the Tories, not because of them, and there's a large population and a lot of parliamentary seats associated with both of the rail projects. Having money spent on your region tends to be a vote winner.

Living in London, you wouldn't know any different.

They have studiously not opposed anything so far, and I don't expect this to be any different.

On a national level, committing to spending an additional £x bn within the next spending cycle will be costed by the Tories, and then as always, Labour will be asked where the money is coming from. I would be amazed if this is any different to any other spending commitment.

Bear in mind that the Tories will be planning to use this saving to justify tax cuts.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I bet those Red Wall voters that backed the Tories last time are pleased with their decision

This is the bit I can't fathom with Sunak and the Tories in general. Cancelling HS2 Northern routes is one great big FU to the North, they are effectively giving up any chance of retaining many red wall voters.

Perhaps, they figure they only won them over last time because of Brexit and now that is no longer the carrot they may as well beat them with a stick and return to their so called base.

Problem is, they are now split into so many factions that they don't really have much of a base, which I think the next GE will highlight.

Could we even see an end to the current Tory party as we know it, with various factions and possibly even new parties forming? Not that I am bothered by it, but it has become so divisive now that I cannot see them all being reconciled to one party under one leader again for many years, if ever.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

I mean hand wringing aside, won't Labour be poised to make the announcement that it will go ahead about 5 mins after Sunak cancels it? So this whole thing is just an exercise in how bad it will play out for the Tories.

I think that, along with the pledges to cancel the ban on pork scratchings, and allow local councils to create more parking spaces outside the off-licence, the Tory's genuinely though that the idea to cancel HS2 would be met with a chorus of "about time".

If you think Labour are going to commit to anything at all that might cost money, I think you're mistaken.

Nothing must be possible to be costed and used to say they can't afford it without increasing taxes.

I think you have this wrong to be honest. Manchester is booming despite the Tories, not because of them, and there's a large population and a lot of parliamentary seats associated with both of the rail projects. Having money spent on your region tends to be a vote winner.

Living in London, you wouldn't know any different.

They have studiously not opposed anything so far, and I don't expect this to be any different.

On a national level, committing to spending an additional £x bn within the next spending cycle will be costed by the Tories, and then as always, Labour will be asked where the money is coming from. I would be amazed if this is any different to any other spending commitment.

Bear in mind that the Tories will be planning to use this saving to justify tax cuts.

Well let's see. The costs are a spending cycle or two away yet and Labour's angle in the meantime will be to improve ties with Europe, undo some of the damage to trade the Tories have done, and grow the economy that way. They have several years within which it will still be credible to blame the Tories for most of what is wrong, so it wouldn't necessarily be set in stone anyway.

I accept that it's hard to imagine Starmer being decisive enough to announce an actual policy, though.

TheBigBean

Starmer has some policies. He wants to not diverge from EU rules whilst diverging from them by putting VAT on education.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

Starmer has some policies. He wants to not diverge from EU rules whilst diverging from them by putting VAT on education.

That's helpful thanks. Let's stick with the Tories.

Pross

kingstongraham said:

Whatever you think it used to be, the party's over. Would anyone be massively surprised if Farage tried to become a Conservative MP and then leader? He'd win the vote of members if he could get that far.

https://twitter.com/NicholasPegg/status/1709101246882132069

That's one of the most cringy things I've watched!

rick_chasey

Never understood why they allow what is essentially the office party to be filmed

MidlandsGrimpeur2

People who are desperately wanting to be cool often film themselves doing uncool things (like dancing at a Tory party conference), whilst thinking they are cool and will be viewed in such light. Not realising that everyone else knows that they are sad idiots 😂 Refer also to the doughnuts that filmed themselves dancing at the banned covid party.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Never understood why they allow what is essentially the office party to be filmed

You want to ban phones? Not sure drunk people dancing is really a scoop.

First.Aspect

If you are worried about looking stupid in public, not sure politics is right for you.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Starmer has some policies. He wants to not diverge from EU rules whilst diverging from them by putting VAT on education.

That's helpful thanks. Let's stick with the Tories.

That seems foolish seeming as they appear to have hit the self-destruct button.

Intrigues me why they wouldn't want to do something meaningful now that they have no chance of winning the election.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Starmer has some policies. He wants to not diverge from EU rules whilst diverging from them by putting VAT on education.

That's helpful thanks. Let's stick with the Tories.

That seems foolish seeming as they appear to have hit the self-destruct button.

Intrigues me why they wouldn't want to do something meaningful now that they have no chance of winning the election.

They are taking the Ruasian approach of digging a few trenches and leaving a minefield to navigate.

kingstongraham

https://twitter.com/Savanta_UK/status/1709152255675334796

First.Aspect

Bottom left sums it up quite well.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

All jokes aside, I take on board what others have said on this and other threads. For a healthy democracy you need two well functioning major political parties to hold each other to account. The Tories are now just an utter joke (albeit not a funny one) and will remain so for years to come. As we have seen, this has been an absolute disaster for our economy, public services and the general good of public life in the UK.

rick_chasey

It shouldn’t be controversial to say that those who chose to relocate to the UK ought to learn the language.

To say otherwise is to be rather ignorant of what it is like to live in a country where you don’t.

veronese68

Pross said:

kingstongraham said:

Whatever you think it used to be, the party's over. Would anyone be massively surprised if Farage tried to become a Conservative MP and then leader? He'd win the vote of members if he could get that far.

https://twitter.com/NicholasPegg/status/1709101246882132069

That's one of the most cringy things I've watched!

I couldn't watch it, I just read out to my colleagues what was on the video saying I can't bring myself to play it. They all just burst out laughing.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

It shouldn’t be controversial to say that those who chose to relocate to the UK ought to learn the language.

To say otherwise is to be rather ignorant of what it is like to live in a country where you don’t.

It shouldn't be but it seems to have been for as long as I can remember. That said, when the boot is on the other foot and Brits go to live abroad they often (especially the one's who tend to moan about foreigners not speaking English over here) expect everyone to speak English to them.

If you move to a country you need to respect their language, customs and laws and that cuts both ways. If you don't like the customes and laws or aren't prepared to learn the language then don't go there. Seems simple really.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

It shouldn’t be controversial to say that those who chose to relocate to the UK ought to learn the language.

To say otherwise is to be rather ignorant of what it is like to live in a country where you don’t.

It shouldn't be but it seems to have been for as long as I can remember. That said, when the boot is on the other foot and Brits go to live abroad they often (especially the one's who tend to moan about foreigners not speaking English over here) expect everyone to speak English to them.

If you move to a country you need to respect their language, customs and laws and that cuts both ways. If you don't like the customes and laws or aren't prepared to learn the language then don't go there. Seems simple really.

Yeah agreed.

I think there is balance in the debate to be had.

I think there is a real cost to poor integration, and I do think it is massively under reported and largely ignored. In turn, i think that then fuels really nasty unhelpful anti-immigration stuff.

Not every neighbourhood is like Windsor Gardens in Paddington. There are lots of exaggerated scare stories on Fox news etc, but I can certainly tell you how uncomfortable I felt in certain parts of the Hague when literally no-one spoke Dutch or English. If that's the neighbourhood you grew up in, I can see why people feel upset and angry about it all.