LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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I'm certainly not going the full Keir Starmer. Can I cop out and vote for Richard Prior's "None of the Above" from Brewster's Millions?First.Aspect said:
I'm happy you have seen the light, but saddened that it took HS2 rather than the token consideration of the rest of the UK by every single Tory government in our lifetimes to persuade you.bikes_and_dogs said:Let's consider a family with two children. We'll call the children North and South. They've both been promised a brand new car (HS2). However after "careful consideration" South is getting a brand new Merc and North is having their battered Ford Fiesta serviced and valeted.
Probably not a wholly accurate analogy but perceptions are important. I've voted Conservative for a long time. Scrapping the Northern leg of HS2 will change that.0 -
HiRiskAnus collects his next set of orders from 55 Tufton Street.
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What!! You brought that example up.rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.0 -
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?0 -
Meh. Covid lockdowns taught me that I am perfectly happy with isolation. 😉rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
I think the eavesdropping theory has a bigger part to play than had occurred.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That’s not it. Hell I still speak loudly in Dutch to my parents in public.TheBigBean said:
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
In society you have interactions with people and language. In shops, on the phone, on labels, street signs, strangers, police, hospitals, schools, all sorts.
Not being able to communicate with them is a problem. Both for the person who can’t speak English and those who are trying to help them.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a basic level of language.
In my local school the amount of time and frustration the teacher clearly has with two parents who don’t speak a word - the 4 year old has to translate for them and it just plainly doesn’t work. How can the teacher communicate stuff to them?
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Given that these days in the Hebrides they probably speak Gaelic to each. Yes there are better examples.😉rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?0 -
Fair enough. Draw a penis in one of the boxes. That's enough to spoil the ballot.bikes_and_dogs said:
I'm certainly not going the full Keir Starmer. Can I cop out and vote for Richard Prior's "None of the Above" from Brewster's Millions?First.Aspect said:
I'm happy you have seen the light, but saddened that it took HS2 rather than the token consideration of the rest of the UK by every single Tory government in our lifetimes to persuade you.bikes_and_dogs said:Let's consider a family with two children. We'll call the children North and South. They've both been promised a brand new car (HS2). However after "careful consideration" South is getting a brand new Merc and North is having their battered Ford Fiesta serviced and valeted.
Probably not a wholly accurate analogy but perceptions are important. I've voted Conservative for a long time. Scrapping the Northern leg of HS2 will change that.0 -
I can see some issues with foreigners not learning the language then having children who need extra attention at school, or struggle to get the help/support. But mainly I suspect that not being able to evesdrop is what I mind the most!
I can see how it might add a little frisson to threatening feeling places, but I've been through places where everyone spoke English where I didn't necessarily feel safe too. It's largely a deprivation issue, rather than a language one.0 -
The PM is going to tell the conference in Manchester that HS2 will go to Manchester even though clearly HS2 isn't going to Manchester.
It's going to be quite a moment“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.
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On the same day that he assures people from London that they aren't going to skimp on the Euston terminus.tailwindhome said:The PM is going to tell the conference in Manchester that HS2 will go to Manchester even though clearly HS2 isn't going to Manchester.
It's going to be quite a moment
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Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.1 -
What other volume is available for Dutch?rick_chasey said:
That’s not it. Hell I still speak loudly in Dutch to my parents in public.TheBigBean said:
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
In society you have interactions with people and language. In shops, on the phone, on labels, street signs, strangers, police, hospitals, schools, all sorts.
Not being able to communicate with them is a problem. Both for the person who can’t speak English and those who are trying to help them.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a basic level of language.
In my local school the amount of time and frustration the teacher clearly has with two parents who don’t speak a word - the 4 year old has to translate for them and it just plainly doesn’t work. How can the teacher communicate stuff to them?1 -
What language do you have to speak to be aloud into Ricktopia?rick_chasey said:
That’s not it. Hell I still speak loudly in Dutch to my parents in public.TheBigBean said:
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
In society you have interactions with people and language. In shops, on the phone, on labels, street signs, strangers, police, hospitals, schools, all sorts.
Not being able to communicate with them is a problem. Both for the person who can’t speak English and those who are trying to help them.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a basic level of language.
In my local school the amount of time and frustration the teacher clearly has with two parents who don’t speak a word - the 4 year old has to translate for them and it just plainly doesn’t work. How can the teacher communicate stuff to them?0 -
All the kids speak English, so it's not really an issue. It's very common to hear parents speak one language to the kids who reply in English.Jezyboy said:I can see some issues with foreigners not learning the language then having children who need extra attention at school, or struggle to get the help/support. But mainly I suspect that not being able to evesdrop is what I mind the most!
I can see how it might add a little frisson to threatening feeling places, but I've been through places where everyone spoke English where I didn't necessarily feel safe too. It's largely a deprivation issue, rather than a language one.0 -
Allowed.focuszing723 said:
What language do you have to speak to be aloud into Ricktopia?rick_chasey said:
That’s not it. Hell I still speak loudly in Dutch to my parents in public.TheBigBean said:
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
In society you have interactions with people and language. In shops, on the phone, on labels, street signs, strangers, police, hospitals, schools, all sorts.
Not being able to communicate with them is a problem. Both for the person who can’t speak English and those who are trying to help them.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a basic level of language.
In my local school the amount of time and frustration the teacher clearly has with two parents who don’t speak a word - the 4 year old has to translate for them and it just plainly doesn’t work. How can the teacher communicate stuff to them?
A loud...
Aloud.0 -
Loudly Dutch!First.Aspect said:
Allowed.focuszing723 said:
What language do you have to speak to be aloud into Ricktopia?rick_chasey said:
That’s not it. Hell I still speak loudly in Dutch to my parents in public.TheBigBean said:
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
In society you have interactions with people and language. In shops, on the phone, on labels, street signs, strangers, police, hospitals, schools, all sorts.
Not being able to communicate with them is a problem. Both for the person who can’t speak English and those who are trying to help them.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a basic level of language.
In my local school the amount of time and frustration the teacher clearly has with two parents who don’t speak a word - the 4 year old has to translate for them and it just plainly doesn’t work. How can the teacher communicate stuff to them?
A loud...
Aloud.0 -
Good to see you've used the burden on the NHS trope.rick_chasey said:
That’s not it. Hell I still speak loudly in Dutch to my parents in public.TheBigBean said:
I understand that not being able to eavesdrop on a bus is a significant problem for some people.rjsterry said:
No. Was trying to make the point that merely speaking English does not make a person deeply integrated into wider British society. I'm sure there are better examples. Historically there have also been very marked isolation between different social groups that would all be considered wholly British. In other words, the need for integration is overplayed. We have never been a monoculture and there's no need to start now.First.Aspect said:
Why is Scottish crofting suddenly relevant?rjsterry said:
Do you think that is what people like Braverman mean when they talk about integration?webboo said:
I would image a Scottish crofter is very intergrated with their local society as they will need support from neighbours to help with rounding up the animals and they often share/ borrow each other’s farm machinery.rjsterry said:
How integrated into society do you think, say, a Scottish crofter or Northumberland sheep farmer is?rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
Is this a speaking English thing?
In society you have interactions with people and language. In shops, on the phone, on labels, street signs, strangers, police, hospitals, schools, all sorts.
Not being able to communicate with them is a problem. Both for the person who can’t speak English and those who are trying to help them.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a basic level of language.
In my local school the amount of time and frustration the teacher clearly has with two parents who don’t speak a word - the 4 year old has to translate for them and it just plainly doesn’t work. How can the teacher communicate stuff to them?0 -
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Fine by me, but do folk simply seeking a better country to live in qualify?First.Aspect said:
Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.0 -
You used hospitals. Basically your list is nonsense. Have you never been to a country where you don't speak the language?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
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So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)0 -
Lol there are places other than Britain that I would rather live but I'm not moving currently. Apply a little thought as to why not and then a little more thought to whether those reasons might also apply to "Britain voters".bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Watching his interview.... I wish he was Home Secretary and one of the favourites for the next leader... feels like something has gone drastically wrong for it to be the way round it isrjsterry said:
I would imagine he thinks the little homophobe can go f*** herself.kingstongraham said:Free speech champion thinks someone needs to be forgiven for disagreeing with her.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-670003550 -
Well, you know, if they fill some of the 1.5M vacancies we have I wouldn't mind.bikes_and_dogs said:
Fine by me, but do folk simply seeking a better country to live in qualify?First.Aspect said:
Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.0 -
So the Dutch already have this requirement.First.Aspect said:
So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)
https://www.government.nl/topics/immigration-to-the-netherlands/question-and-answer/do-i-have-to-comply-with-dutch-civic-integration-requirements0 -
Sounds like the Life in the UK test. Two friends of mine have lived in Amsterdam for years. Neither speak any Dutch.rick_chasey said:
So the Dutch already have this requirement.First.Aspect said:
So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)
https://www.government.nl/topics/immigration-to-the-netherlands/question-and-answer/do-i-have-to-comply-with-dutch-civic-integration-requirements0 -
They’ll be grandfathered in on the EU exemption.TheBigBean said:
Sounds like the Life in the UK test. Two friends of mine have lived in Amsterdam for years. Neither speak any Dutch.rick_chasey said:
So the Dutch already have this requirement.First.Aspect said:
So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)
https://www.government.nl/topics/immigration-to-the-netherlands/question-and-answer/do-i-have-to-comply-with-dutch-civic-integration-requirements0
