LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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ONS figures suggest that there are 8.78 million people in the UK aged 16 - 64 that are economically inactive. If you think that uncontrolled immigration is the solution, I have some magic beans that I am selling.First.Aspect said:
Well, you know, if they fill some of the 1.5M vacancies we have I wouldn't mind.bikes_and_dogs said:
Fine by me, but do folk simply seeking a better country to live in qualify?First.Aspect said:
Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.1 -
No. They're just other EU. The point being they seem to survive ok and both speak three languages already, so it's not like they are incapable of learning.rick_chasey said:
They’ll be grandfathered in on the EU exemption.TheBigBean said:
Sounds like the Life in the UK test. Two friends of mine have lived in Amsterdam for years. Neither speak any Dutch.rick_chasey said:
So the Dutch already have this requirement.First.Aspect said:
So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)
https://www.government.nl/topics/immigration-to-the-netherlands/question-and-answer/do-i-have-to-comply-with-dutch-civic-integration-requirements0 -
I think that’s pretty poor form tbh and I suspect they are relying on the fact most people you deal with are bilingual in English.TheBigBean said:
No. They're just other EU. The point being they seem to survive ok and both speak three languages already, so it's not like they are incapable of learning.rick_chasey said:
They’ll be grandfathered in on the EU exemption.TheBigBean said:
Sounds like the Life in the UK test. Two friends of mine have lived in Amsterdam for years. Neither speak any Dutch.rick_chasey said:
So the Dutch already have this requirement.First.Aspect said:
So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)
https://www.government.nl/topics/immigration-to-the-netherlands/question-and-answer/do-i-have-to-comply-with-dutch-civic-integration-requirements
What’s their excuse for not learning it?0 -
English is a strange one because it's pretty much a first language in The Netherlands. Dutch as a language may as well be wiped out as it's utterly useless.0
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🖐️bikes_and_dogs said:
ONS figures suggest that there are 8.78 million people in the UK aged 16 - 64 that are economically inactive. If you think that uncontrolled immigration is the solution, I have some magic beans that I am selling.First.Aspect said:
Well, you know, if they fill some of the 1.5M vacancies we have I wouldn't mind.bikes_and_dogs said:
Fine by me, but do folk simply seeking a better country to live in qualify?First.Aspect said:
Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I'm starting to wonder if there's a secret Tory competition to tell the biggest most blatant lie. We've had compulsory 15-minute cities, beef tax, and...
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I think they both work in English (second/third language for both). If they go somewhere with Dutch speakers they will all switch to English, so there is very little opportunity to practise or learn.rick_chasey said:
I think that’s pretty poor form tbh and I suspect they are relying on the fact most people you deal with are bilingual in English.TheBigBean said:
No. They're just other EU. The point being they seem to survive ok and both speak three languages already, so it's not like they are incapable of learning.rick_chasey said:
They’ll be grandfathered in on the EU exemption.TheBigBean said:
Sounds like the Life in the UK test. Two friends of mine have lived in Amsterdam for years. Neither speak any Dutch.rick_chasey said:
So the Dutch already have this requirement.First.Aspect said:
So you going to move back to the Netherlands if your folks need your help when they are older. Or teach them English so they can move here?rick_chasey said:Have I? I’ve just listed a bunch of places where you need to communicate?
What about your wife and kids? Leave them here I suppose.
(Don't answer literally)
https://www.government.nl/topics/immigration-to-the-netherlands/question-and-answer/do-i-have-to-comply-with-dutch-civic-integration-requirements
What’s their excuse for not learning it?0 -
I didn’t say it affected me. I would have thought it would make their life easier if they were able to go about daily life without reliance on others. I wouldn’t mind moving to France but if I did I feel I would need a reasonable grasp of the language to make the most of life there.TheBigBean said:
How does it affect you? Are you offended by English speaking children taking care of their parents?Pross said:
I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.0 -
That's the point though. Other people are free to choose how to live their lives. Rick wants them to be forced to learn English.Pross said:
I didn’t say it affected me. I would have thought it would make their life easier if they were able to go about daily life without reliance on others. I wouldn’t mind moving to France but if I did I feel I would need a reasonable grasp of the language to make the most of life there.TheBigBean said:
How does it affect you? Are you offended by English speaking children taking care of their parents?Pross said:
I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.0 -
Correct. You can live you life how you want **according to the rules and customs of the land**TheBigBean said:
That's the point though. Other people are free to choose how to live their lives. Rick wants them to be forced to learn English.Pross said:
I didn’t say it affected me. I would have thought it would make their life easier if they were able to go about daily life without reliance on others. I wouldn’t mind moving to France but if I did I feel I would need a reasonable grasp of the language to make the most of life there.TheBigBean said:
How does it affect you? Are you offended by English speaking children taking care of their parents?Pross said:
I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
I think being able to effectively communicate and understand the language of the nation is critical to being a part of it.0 -
This is an interesting bee to put under your hat RC.0
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Who's arguing for uncontrolled immigration? Literally no-one.bikes_and_dogs said:
ONS figures suggest that there are 8.78 million people in the UK aged 16 - 64 that are economically inactive. If you think that uncontrolled immigration is the solution, I have some magic beans that I am selling.First.Aspect said:
Well, you know, if they fill some of the 1.5M vacancies we have I wouldn't mind.bikes_and_dogs said:
Fine by me, but do folk simply seeking a better country to live in qualify?First.Aspect said:
Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
FWIW, there is a French language test if you want to claim residency there. No idea how tricky it is, and whether you need to have mastered the subjonctif (which is more than a lot of French have), or have to swear an oath to the Académie française
Also, FWIW, the French school system was designed primarily to eliminate the regional languages of France, which it did in roughly two generations, with grandparents barely able to communicate fluently with their grandchildren in many cases, and that was in their own country. I'm not sure that older folk are terribly receptive to learning new languages: I doubt if any formal help whatsoever was given to them in France (it was a fairly brutal if successful way of bringing about a 'national language'); I've no idea if there's any formal help offered for those without competency in English in the UK now.0 -
Rules are things you have to follow. Customs is just a fancy name for habits and half of ours are stolen or anachronistic forgeries (and all the better for it). Speaking the language is undeniably useful, but requiring people to participate in a state defined version of society is - well, distinctly un-British.rick_chasey said:
Correct. You can live you life how you want **according to the rules and customs of the land**TheBigBean said:
That's the point though. Other people are free to choose how to live their lives. Rick wants them to be forced to learn English.Pross said:
I didn’t say it affected me. I would have thought it would make their life easier if they were able to go about daily life without reliance on others. I wouldn’t mind moving to France but if I did I feel I would need a reasonable grasp of the language to make the most of life there.TheBigBean said:
How does it affect you? Are you offended by English speaking children taking care of their parents?Pross said:
I don't live in a particularly ethinically diverse area but even I quite often see multi-generational living where the older family members can't speak any English. They can obviously get by using younger family members to translate but aren't really living very independently as a result.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there are any problems on this front. Most people do integrate to some extent. It's rare I come across anyone who doesn't speak English.rick_chasey said:
Possibly but that's also really problematic as I think there is room to not be racist but also room to understand that not integrating into the society of the host nation is problematic.TheBigBean said:I think it is all a bit of a dog whistle.
We all talk about the positives of immigration and there are many, and there is a lot of talk about the rich history of the cultural gains from taking on people from all over the world, cuisine, culture blah blah, but that transmission and gain only happens when integration happens, and language, bluntly, is the key to that.
I think being able to effectively communicate and understand the language of the nation is critical to being a part of it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Hey, what's worse than stopping HS2 at Birmingham? Let's do that!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
My response was further to the above. Check out the previous quotes.rjsterry said:
Who's arguing for uncontrolled immigration? Literally no-one.bikes_and_dogs said:
ONS figures suggest that there are 8.78 million people in the UK aged 16 - 64 that are economically inactive. If you think that uncontrolled immigration is the solution, I have some magic beans that I am selling.First.Aspect said:
Well, you know, if they fill some of the 1.5M vacancies we have I wouldn't mind.bikes_and_dogs said:
Fine by me, but do folk simply seeking a better country to live in qualify?First.Aspect said:
Could the line not be gay people or anyone else legitimately seeking asylum from persecution?bikes_and_dogs said:If a poll was done across the whole world asking - Would you rather live in Britain or where you are now? I suspect that a large number would say "Britain".
Can Britain accommodate all the "Britain" voters? I reckon no.
There needs to be an ultimately cruel system that draws a line. I don't know where that line should be drawn but there needs to be a line.0 -
Seems logical now.
Though 'broad church' as in somewhere to the right of UKIP stretching out into the darker corners of conspiracy-world internet. It feels like Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller are ministers in this church.
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If true that’s absolutely laughable.rjsterry said:
Hey, what's worse than stopping HS2 at Birmingham? Let's do that!
What gets overlooked in HS2 is also the benefit to the road network. All of the works roads are being adopted and lead to much better connectivity between major roads.
I have a lot of admiration for Andy Street. A successful businessman, who speaks a lot of sense and is passionate about our region.0 -
Have been saying for a while.First.Aspect said:This is an interesting bee to put under your hat RC.
I don’t think there are many good excuses not to, and I think it says something about your appetite for the host nation if you don’t.
Society is basically just a bag of social interactions and without a common language, literally, it doesn’t work properly.
Furthermore, I don’t think you can ever even get close to a society or a culture without learning the language. They are so intrinsically related.0 -
I guess it’s no longer about speed or capacity.rjsterry said:
Hey, what's worse than stopping HS2 at Birmingham? Let's do that!0 -
I’m really struggling to see how you can suggest, with a straight face, that cancelling a piece of major infrastructure is a long term decision and that saving a few billion now is not taking the short term view. Maybe I’ll understand when they announce their genius plans for spending the money.0
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Cue the theme tune to The Muppet Show.0
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Isn't that what was gonna happen after the first stage and before the second stage was built?rjsterry said:
Hey, what's worse than stopping HS2 at Birmingham? Let's do that!0 -
Yes.0
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The excuse is that currently the lines north of Birmingham aren't quite at full capacity.
(Although they are forecast to be in the next 10 years).
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In March 2023, forty-seven per cent of our power came from zero carbon sources (including nuclear). A new record was set on March 13, when 67.4 per cent of energy on the national grid came from wind. For the month of March 2023, here’s a breakdown of how the UK’s electricity supply was generated.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/environment/earth-day-inside-the-renewables-revolution/
The Severn Barrage and the guaranteed reliable power it would provide?
Get that reliance on gas to produce electricity knocked on the head.0 -
I think it is a quirk of the widespread use of English that you have a bee in your bonnet about a problem that doesn't really exist. Yes, it exists, but it isn't causing any of the UK's problems. It feels like you are getting sucked into the latest Tory "bogey man" rhetoric.rick_chasey said:
Have been saying for a while.First.Aspect said:This is an interesting bee to put under your hat RC.
I don’t think there are many good excuses not to, and I think it says something about your appetite for the host nation if you don’t.
Society is basically just a bag of social interactions and without a common language, literally, it doesn’t work properly.
Furthermore, I don’t think you can ever even get close to a society or a culture without learning the language. They are so intrinsically related.
That said, if you do want to get all British, this would require some understanding of "Britain". This forum largely shows a SE bias, with issues affecting the provinces, not least the three other entire countries in the UK often dismissed as being irrelevant. Unless there's some vague consideration about the entire nation and what the society means as a whole, how can you possibly whine about integrating people into it?
Yes, you are indeed one of the worst of the SE bubble posters on here, bleeting on about the train, local house prices and insulting most of the rest of the country with comments about the correlation between ambition and London.
I mean sorry, but have you ever been to Wales, Scotland or Norther Ireland? How about the South West, outside of the tourist spots? I'd recommend going around now, when all the facilities for the people who don't live there have shut down for the winter.
I think what I'm saying is that you don't really have a clue.2 -
First.Aspect said:
I think it is a quirk of the widespread use of English that you have a bee in your bonnet about a problem that doesn't really exist. Yes, it exists, but it isn't causing any of the UK's problems. It feels like you are getting sucked into the latest Tory "bogey man" rhetoric.rick_chasey said:
Have been saying for a while.First.Aspect said:This is an interesting bee to put under your hat RC.
I don’t think there are many good excuses not to, and I think it says something about your appetite for the host nation if you don’t.
Society is basically just a bag of social interactions and without a common language, literally, it doesn’t work properly.
Furthermore, I don’t think you can ever even get close to a society or a culture without learning the language. They are so intrinsically related.
That said, if you do want to get all British, this would require some understanding of "Britain". This forum largely shows a SE bias, with issues affecting the provinces, not least the three other entire countries in the UK often dismissed as being irrelevant. Unless there's some vague consideration about the entire nation and what the society means as a whole, how can you possibly whine about integrating people into it?
Yes, you are indeed one of the worst of the SE bubble posters on here, bleeting on about the train, local house prices and insulting most of the rest of the country with comments about the correlation between ambition and London.
I mean sorry, but have you ever been to Wales, Scotland or Norther Ireland? How about the South West, outside of the tourist spots? I'd recommend going around now, when all the facilities for the people who don't live there have shut down for the winter.
I think what I'm saying is that you don't really have a clue.
I'll sidestep the personal attack.
Go to some of the central places Doncaster, like I have been for 15 years, and tell me it isn't a problem.
People exaggerate about "no go areas", they don't exist, but there are absolutely areas where older people who have stayed now can't speak to people in their local shops because those owners no longer speak English. This absolutely happens.
I think you are right that the forum doesn't really know what these sh!tholes are really like as it's generally an affluent lot, but I think there is a reality grounded in the complaint about lack of integration. It's just where we live the authorities either don't dump a tonne of unprocessed asylum seekers with nothing to do all day and not being able to understand anything, or live in areas where there is such a high concentration of immigrants that the the common language in the 'hood isn't English anymore.
So i agree, most people here don't have a clue, and dismissing it as "I deal with a seasonal worker who can't speak English and it's fine" doesn't really understand the issue and the anger it causes.
We all spout off the virtues of multi-culturalism, but without the language you don't get multi-culturalism, you just get pockets of different cultures that don't mix properly.
You literally need a common language.0 -
Do you really think that something that is such a big political issue across the world is just entirely fabricated, with no grounding in reality whatsoever?!
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Please don't try to be the poster child for social awareness.
I stand by my assessment that the line of reasoning that ends up with a citizenship test is a dead end.0
