TDF 2018, Stage 12: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs > Alpe d'Huez 19/07/2018 - 175,5 km *Spoilers*

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Comments

  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    The French not covering themselves with glory. Fail to control idiot fans, who take out one of the riders. Their man then attacks when the others try to wait. The crowd then boos the winner. Not good.
    Huh? It was Froome that attacked when Nibali went down. No footage as far as I'm aware but assume Froome didn't see the incident.

    There is footage. It's already been posted. It was Bardet.
    Fair enough. Can you post a link?
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    phreak wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    Matthewfalle wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    If Bardet were a skybot, would he have won that stage?

    What would he have done any differently?

    Been dragged 3/4 of the way up the hill by a team mate and saved a shed load of energy mostly.

    This. His attacks were pretty strong and he held the wheel until G sprinted.

    The other teams riders spend a lot of time with their nose in the wind whereas G and Froome get to chill.

    I think perhaps Bardet could win a tdf with but not in a way that will please the french fans.

    That's funny, because I didn't see Bardet doing any work on the front for the entire stage. If Froome and Thomas are being magically towed up the climb, then the rider sat on their wheel must be too.

    Of course. But I'm saying IF he were a skybot he MAY have been better at holding off and attacking at the opportune moment. He attacked a couple of times and did some work yesterday. I'm not saying he's a credible threat, but could be moulded into one. I don't expect him to do well due to AG2R being a bit too old fashioned, but he's not been too bad.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Didn't make the cut

    Rein Taaramae

    big surprise!
  • effillo
    effillo Posts: 257
    BigMat wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    The French not covering themselves with glory. Fail to control idiot fans, who take out one of the riders. Their man then attacks when the others try to wait. The crowd then boos the winner. Not good.
    Huh? It was Froome that attacked when Nibali went down. No footage as far as I'm aware but assume Froome didn't see the incident.

    They all seemed to be waiting but then Bardet had another dig. Anyway, to be fair, there was probably a lot of confusion and Bardet seems like a decent guy. Seems more reluctant than some to take a sticky bottle!

    Apart from the time he got kicked out of Paris Nice for illegal tow!!!
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    Funny, Nibali said Froome had already attacked and he was chasing when he was brought down. Froome didn't slow down from his attack until Tommy dragged him back way later.

    Nibali said: "There were two police motorbikes but there weren’t any barriers at that point. When Froome attacked, I went after him and felt good. Then we were slowed up and I went down. I don’t know what happened."


    18:13:41 CEST

    Nibali has spoken briefly at anti-doping. He said he was chasing Froome when the road ahead of him narrowed.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Some people might suggest that, given his behaviour and comments vis a vis 2012, it would be hypocritical of Froome should he not offer to ride for Geraint, who is clearly the stronger of the two.
    And Simon Yates was clearly the strongest rider at this point in the Giro.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Funny, Nibali said Froome had already attacked and he was chasing when he was brought down. Froome didn't slow down from his attack until Tommy dragged him back way later.

    Nibali said: "There were two police motorbikes but there weren’t any barriers at that point. When Froome attacked, I went after him and felt good. Then we were slowed up and I went down. I don’t know what happened."


    18:13:41 CEST

    Nibali has spoken briefly at anti-doping. He said he was chasing Froome when the road ahead of him narrowed.
    And see page 20 of this thread for contemporaneous accounts of who was attacking when Nibali went down.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Some people might suggest that, given his behaviour and comments vis a vis 2012, it would be hypocritical of Froome should he not offer to ride for Geraint, who is clearly the stronger of the two.
    And Simon Yates was clearly the strongest rider at this point in the Giro.
    Fair point. But I'm not saying that it would be the right thing to do. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy were Froome to ask Geraint to sacrifice himself given his behaviour during, and subsequent comments regarding, that 2012 Tour.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,703
    edited July 2018
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    The French not covering themselves with glory. Fail to control idiot fans, who take out one of the riders. Their man then attacks when the others try to wait. The crowd then boos the winner. Not good.
    Huh? It was Froome that attacked when Nibali went down. No footage as far as I'm aware but assume Froome didn't see the incident.

    There is footage. It's already been posted. It was Bardet.
    Fair enough. Can you post a link?

    You can see the problem in the opening shot. Bardet is ahead of the police bike, Froome leading the chase behind, with Nibali on his wheel. Roglic and Landa getting dropped, so dumoulin has to close up behind.
    Then it's a total flare fog.

    https://twitter.com/tourdegila/status/1 ... 1675289601
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,703
    edit:delete
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    t5nel wrote:
    The dog attacks
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Nibali down. what a disgrace.
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Froome attack, Nibz down !

    [*]
    FocusZing wrote:
    Froome jumps.
    Korhag wrote:
    NIBALI DOWN
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Froome is off and away, but what happened I wonder?
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    DeadCalm wrote:
    t5nel wrote:
    The dog attacks
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Nibali down. what a disgrace.
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Froome attack, Nibz down !

    [*]
    FocusZing wrote:
    Froome jumps.
    Korhag wrote:
    NIBALI DOWN
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Froome is off and away, but what happened I wonder?
    Remember that people will be watching different streams with different delays... this isn't the best way to determine what actually happened when in reality.

    (not arguing against you necessarily, I don't really care one way or the other, just wanted to point that out)
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    BigMat wrote:
    The French not covering themselves with glory. Fail to control idiot fans, who take out one of the riders. Their man then attacks when the others try to wait. The crowd then boos the winner. Not good.
    Huh? It was Froome that attacked when Nibali went down. No footage as far as I'm aware but assume Froome didn't see the incident.

    There is footage. It's already been posted. It was Bardet.
    Fair enough. Can you post a link?

    You can see the problem in the opening shot. Bardet is ahead of the police bike, Froome leading the chase behind, with Nibali on his wheel. Roglic and Landa getting dropped, so dumoulin has to close up behind.
    Then it's a total flare fog.

    https://twitter.com/tourdegila/status/1 ... 1675289601

    Agreed. So Bardet was already attacking with Froome and Nibali chasing. Then fog. The next thing we see is Froome attacking. Then we look back and see Nibali is down.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    4 abreast. track riding.
    this was the entente cordiale I was referring to, after it appears they recognised Nibali had been felled... the Landa got back on, and It looked to me that they were all waiting for Nibali to rejoin - then Bardet broke the agreement - and they were all forced to chase hard -
  • dabber
    dabber Posts: 1,973
    So you've ridden all day, swaeted up two hors category climbs and you're on the third, the race is on.... and you're going to back off and neutralise things so Nibali can get back on.... get real, this is a race.

    Whoever attacked or didn't attack do you think it's likely Nibali would return the favour if if it was you on the floor.

    btw, although I don't like Nibali I felt sorry for him.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    moonshine wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    4 abreast. track riding.
    this was the entente cordiale I was referring to, after it appears they recognised Nibali had been felled...

    Thomas must have known about Nibali being brought down as he was behind him and he said he rode over his wheel. Did he communicate anything to the other 3 to wait for Nibali?
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    adr82 wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    t5nel wrote:
    The dog attacks
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Nibali down. what a disgrace.
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Froome attack, Nibz down !

    [*]
    FocusZing wrote:
    Froome jumps.
    Korhag wrote:
    NIBALI DOWN
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Froome is off and away, but what happened I wonder?
    Remember that people will be watching different streams with different delays... this isn't the best way to determine what actually happened when in reality.

    (not arguing against you necessarily, I don't really care one way or the other, just wanted to point that out)
    Fair point but it is exactly as it came across watching it live on Eurosport. In all probability Froome was already on the attack when Nibz went down behind him. No blame attached to anyone but the nutters in the crowd. I just get fed up with people trying to make these anti-French conspiracy theories with absolutely zero evidence.
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    it looked like waiting to me - then the BArdet attack
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Silly-buggery let Landa back, Bardet goes again, Froome chases with G and Tom on wheels
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    moonshine wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    4 abreast. track riding.
    this was the entente cordiale I was referring to, after it appears they recognised Nibali had been felled... the Landa got back on, and It looked to me that they were all waiting for Nibali to rejoin - then Bardet broke the agreement - and they were all forced to chase hard -
    Nah. That was nobody wanting to lead the others. Literally, track style racing to try and get someone to lead out. The race was very much on at that point.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,154
    moonshine wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    4 abreast. track riding.
    this was the entente cordiale I was referring to, after it appears they recognised Nibali had been felled... the Landa got back on, and It looked to me that they were all waiting for Nibali to rejoin - then Bardet broke the agreement - and they were all forced to chase hard -


    Nah, they were just bluffing and trying to lure each other out at that point. I'm sure why people are even arguing about who attacked, it was the final few km of a key stage and riders were attacking and countering. Even Nibali doesn't seem to be suggesting anyone took advantage, G also seemed to get delayed briefly.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Agreed. So Bardet was already attacking with Froome and Nibali chasing. Then fog. The next thing we see is Froome attacking. Then we look back and see Nibali is down.
    Froome attacked immediately when they got to the barriered section. I don't think that was a coincidence (in fact I predicted it). Nibali crashing a little bit before probably was.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    https://twitter.com/romainbardet/status ... 8684771329
    Just heard about the crash of @vincenzonibali, feel really sorry for what happened, full effort, no radio, absolutely not my intention to take any advantage of that. Please respect our efforts, we all share the same passion, let’s do it fair
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Agreed. So Bardet was already attacking with Froome and Nibali chasing. Then fog. The next thing we see is Froome attacking. Then we look back and see Nibali is down.
    Froome attacked immediately when they got to the barriered section. I don't think that was a coincidence (in fact I predicted it). Nibali crashing a little bit before probably was.
    I agree 100%. I'm not criticising Froome at all. He was already on the attack. The race was on. Nibali was behind him. Nothing to see here.
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Where are all the excited Dutch rider loving forumites? Ridge Rider, Rick etc.

    In the Dolomites on a ride, but now reading this thread rather than skipping to the headline on CN.
    Half man, Half bike
  • moonshine
    moonshine Posts: 1,021
    https://twitter.com/dylan_curtis1/statu ... 49/video/1
    this is the swing at Froome by a spectator
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    From Cyclingnews(not a day for the tinfoil hat brigade):
    Geraint Thomas was the fastest today on Alpe d'Huez today, with a time of 41:15.
    That's 4: 35 sec slower than Marco Pantani's record and not fast enough to enter the Top 100 fastest Alpe d'Huez ascents.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,570
    DeadCalm wrote:
    From Cyclingnews(not a day for the tinfoil hat brigade):
    Geraint Thomas was the fastest today on Alpe d'Huez today, with a time of 41:15.
    That's 4: 35 sec slower than Marco Pantani's record and not fast enough to enter the Top 100 fastest Alpe d'Huez ascents.

    They're using drugs that slow them down to avoid suspicion.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,535
    Pross wrote:
    Shirley Basso wrote:
    If Bardet were a skybot, would he have won that stage?

    What would he have done any differently?

    Ridden 10km on the front on the Alpe for Froome probably.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    Nibali won't start tomorrow according to more than one Italian journalist.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • poppit
    poppit Posts: 926
    RichN95 wrote:
    Nibali won't start tomorrow according to more than one Italian journalist.
    Heard the same, shame really
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