TDF 2018, Stage 12: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs > Alpe d'Huez 19/07/2018 - 175,5 km *Spoilers*

durhamwasp

Salsiccia1 wrote:

They've got to stop using the Alpe. There's no other solution. They can't police it properly, and it attracts too many arseholes.

Thought exactly that. Seemed better policed this year than previous, but still someone has a swing at Froome (WTF is going on with cycling!) and then Nibali gets knocked out the race.

Time to forget the Alpe until they can barrier it off from start to finish.

mididoctors

i like the alp..chaos and all.

Bo Duke

awavey wrote:

not sure if this video helps much either, https://twitter.com/radsportcafe/status ... 0724517889 but it doesnt fwiw look like he hits a barrier at first, theres a line of people there the wrong side anyway, looks like hes following froomes wheel,then steers right.

seen a few people claim handlebars caught one of the spectator smurfs group trying to ipad/phone the riders

Thats mental mate, the fans and organisers should be ashamed.

topper_harley

DeadCalm wrote:

Topper harley wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Nibali was 13secs down on Thomas on Alpe D'huez with a fractured vertebra

Respect.

They waited...well G, Froome and tom did....Bardet didn’t

What Donald Trump-style version of reality do you exist in?

Bardet has admitted in Twitter that he attacked when he shouldn't have, the other 3 were waiting for Nibali that why Landa managed to get back on, and that’s ahy the 3 of them were spread all across the road

rick_chasey

Topper harley wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Nibali was 13secs down on Thomas on Alpe D'huez with a fractured vertebra

Respect.

They waited...well G, Froome and tom did....Bardet didn’t

Eh?

Unless you have something concrete that says otherwise they were racing each other and it got tactical, hence they slowed.

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

Any thoughts on why so many sprinters have been eliminated?

Short stage yesterday pooped them.

A lot of sprinters arrived to begin with, quite a few who are not on form.

Dylan only retired because of the injuries he was carrying from his Roubaix bike failure. His teammates couldn’t believe he made it in yesterday given how banged up he is.

poweredbyidris

RichN95 wrote:

Welsh corner (one below the one which will have Thomas's name on it)

*utter trumpet running alongside the riders and draping a welsh flag over them not pictured*

topper_harley

Rick Chasey wrote:

Topper harley wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Nibali was 13secs down on Thomas on Alpe D'huez with a fractured vertebra

Respect.

They waited...well G, Froome and tom did....Bardet didn’t

Eh?

Unless you have something concrete that says otherwise they were racing each other and it got tactical, hence they slowed.

Check Bardets twitter, he says he was wrong to attack, you could see during the race the other 3 sat up

rick_chasey

Think you’ve put 2+2 together and got five.

topper_harley

Don’t think so

FocusZing

Topper harley wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Topper harley wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Nibali was 13secs down on Thomas on Alpe D'huez with a fractured vertebra

Respect.

They waited...well G, Froome and tom did....Bardet didn’t

Eh?

Unless you have something concrete that says otherwise they were racing each other and it got tactical, hence they slowed.

Check Bardets twitter, he says he was wrong to attack, you could see during the race the other 3 sat up

It's no good orange county riding.

rick_chasey

Rick Chasey wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Any thoughts on why so many sprinters have been eliminated?

Short stage yesterday pooped them.

A lot of sprinters arrived to begin with, quite a few who are not on form.

Dylan only retired because of the injuries he was carrying from his Roubaix bike failure. His teammates couldn’t believe he made it in yesterday given how banged up he is.

Ignore this. Clearly bs given Gavaria also left

DeadCalm

RichN95 wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

mfin wrote:

Moaning about the booing isn't going to stop it.

I think everybody that's impartial (in addition to all the sky fan tw@ts) find it difficult to accept booing at Thomas as he's done nothing wrong. Yes, it's not nice, but it is what it is though, he wears a jersey with Sky written on it and Sky didn't have to be this disliked, they brought at least some amount of this dislike on themselves.

What’s Froome or any of the other Sky riders done wrong then to get all the booing? Apart from win lots?

Mostly that. Coupled with continued lack of French success because everyone else is doping. And the need for some for a surrogate for Armstrong. And the pre-race rhetoric from Hinault/Lappartient/Prudhomme didn't help.

Which would be a nice theory if the crowd on Alpe D'Huez was French. It isn't. Not by a long way.

Matthewfalle

Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.

You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.

effillo

I know this won't be a popular opinion on here but I think the crowd adds so much on The Alpe, whilst I agree it's disgusting someone took a swing at Froome and Nibz being knocked off is terrible, it could happen anywhere, not exclusive to this climb. The scenario with the riders and crowd here is unique in the world of sport, I can't think of any other spectacle where it is quite the same. Barriers all the way up would kill the atmosphere, the top section of the climb is slightly sterile in comparison to the lower slopes as it is.

As a side note, heard the banned alcohol sales this year roadside going up there, imagine the money lost on that!!

yourpaceormine

Was hoping they'd cover this in the itv podcast but not sure they did (may have nodded off in the middle):

Any Froome interviews doing the rounds about the stage?
Any updates about the angry old man who looked like he pushed/tried to thump Froome?
Just before this it looked like liquid was thrown at G/Froome - wee wee or helpful cooling water?
What had the arrested man (Robbie McEwan tweeted about) done?
Has Lappartient backtracked on his prerace comments or at least said "respect the riders? Are he and Sir Dave still behaving like toddlers to one another ("my dad's bigger than yours" "well my dad's got a cannon and everything")?
[I would never expect the Badger to backtrack or apologise for anything because he is, well, the Badger.]

Nibs incident - what was the point of having the railings (that crowd was stood in front of) when the police officer stood there wasn't enforcing that the crowd stood behind it?

rick_chasey

Rick Chasey wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Any thoughts on why so many sprinters have been eliminated?

Short stage yesterday pooped them.

A lot of sprinters arrived to begin with, quite a few who are not on form.

Dylan only retired because of the injuries he was carrying from his Roubaix bike failure. His teammates couldn’t believe he made it in yesterday given how banged up he is.

Ignore this. Clearly bs given Gavaria also left

Sagan saying this was the hardest tour stage he’s ever ridden.

rick_chasey

Dutches suggesting the sprinters rode very hard in week one because there were so many stages for them.

Also the heat is taking a toll on the bigger riders

(Trying to dig out reasons for all the sprinters failing the time cut)

specialgueststar

Matthewfalle wrote:

Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.

You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.

He's right you know

yourpaceormine

Commentary over the Alps stages has suggested no big groupetto has formed as you would expect. Wonder why?

Maybe the loss of the ninth man (possible increased work load for the sprint trains) has also contributed to the eliminations.

darkhairedlord

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.

You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.

He's right you know

The sum of their marginal pains..

DeVlaeminck

effillo wrote:

I know this won't be a popular opinion on here but I think the crowd adds so much on The Alpe/quote]

Not for me, they are too close to the race and a big enough minority spoil it by acting like dickheads. I just can't see what flares, people running inches from the riders while taking selfies and draping flags over them adds to anything. People seem to glorify the behaviour of the likes of Dutch corner, I'm pretty certain when English football fans act in a similar way they are roundly criticised.

davidof

mididoctors wrote:

i like the alp..chaos and all.

#metoo

blazing_saddles

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.

You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.

He's right you know

Cock.
Few of those yobs, yesterday, have a followed the grey area stories.
There just hasn't been the appetite for them in Europe. Non stories, pretty much.
Bu*ger all to being dull, too. If it were, how come Quintana missing the treatment?

It's all down to Froome's AAF and how it has been played out and depicted.
It is due the atmosphere created and fueled by certain factions of the press and a few high profile individuals seeking to "look after themselves." Plus a national trait or two.

Posted on BBC HYS just a few minutes ago.

Two of my sons are at the Tour. On both stage 11 and 12 yesterday GT and Froome were singled out for abuse by French fans. My lads said they witnessed French fans spitting and had water guns filled with urine and were shouting obscenities. My boys met up with some Welsh lads and they all witnessed the crowd throwing water bottles etc. The French hate us because we are winners.

Lanterne_Rogue

With reference to sprinters, the average length of the mountain stages so far has been 147km, and over the whole tour 155km. In 2017 the average was 172km, and in 2016 176km. Two stages so far have been less than 100 miles (160km), in the whole of 2017 there was one shorter than that, in 2016 there were two in the whole tour and three stages are marked as having extensive flat parts.

If the notion that sprinters struggle on short, hard mountain stages is correct then it's not a surprise that they're struggling this year - the lengths aren't being trimmed by cutting the number of climbs. As the cut off is a percentage of the whole time for the stage, the longer the flats are (where the autobus will lose much less time)then the more time they have to play with on the climbs. Worse, the climbers are fresher on the climbs as they're not having to also drill it across the flat, so the climbs are generally faster.

The Tour seems to be trending consistently towards shorter, more explosive mountain days - it feels like they've not really adjusted the calculation for hors delai to compensate - hence the sprinters are falling out en masse.

Vino'sGhost

underlayunderlay wrote:

With reference to sprinters, the average length of the mountain stages so far has been 147km, and over the whole tour 155km. In 2017 the average was 172km, and in 2016 176km. Two stages so far have been less than 100 miles (160km), in the whole of 2017 there was one shorter than that, in 2016 there were two in the whole tour and three stages are marked as having extensive flat parts.

If the notion that sprinters struggle on short, hard mountain stages is correct then it's not a surprise that they're struggling this year - the lengths aren't being trimmed by cutting the number of climbs. As the cut off is a percentage of the whole time for the stage, the longer the flats are (where the autobus will lose much less time)then the more time they have to play with on the climbs. Worse, the climbers are fresher on the climbs as they're not having to also drill it across the flat, so the climbs are generally faster.

The Tour seems to be trending consistently towards shorter, more explosive mountain days - it feels like they've not really adjusted the calculation for hors delai to compensate - hence the sprinters are falling out en masse.

yes i agree, the short explosive mountain stages are def great to watch.

On the plus side with smaller teams and the possibility that some of your team might not make the time cut OR be exhausted from the effort to make it, there is increased likelihood that no one team can control the race.

Absence of one controlling all powerful train (sky Postal etc) has got to be good for less predictable outcomes, more attacking riding and great viewing. Id say leave the timecuts where they are for a couple of years and see.

Vino'sGhost

RichN95 wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

mfin wrote:

Moaning about the booing isn't going to stop it.

I think everybody that's impartial (in addition to all the sky fan tw@ts) find it difficult to accept booing at Thomas as he's done nothing wrong. Yes, it's not nice, but it is what it is though, he wears a jersey with Sky written on it and Sky didn't have to be this disliked, they brought at least some amount of this dislike on themselves.

What’s Froome or any of the other Sky riders done wrong then to get all the booing? Apart from win lots?

Mostly that. Coupled with continued lack of French success because everyone else is doping. And the need for some for a surrogate for Armstrong. And the pre-race rhetoric from Hinault/Lappartient/Prudhomme didn't help.

nothing at all, the arrogance, jiffy bags, mysteriously disappearing medical records, doctors to ill temporarily to testify, AAF, dodgy TUE. theoretical explanations for MASSIVE amounts of Salbutamol. Explanations that conveniently cant be tested.

Nothing there at all.

It must be difficult for Thomas since he hasn't directly been involved in all this, other than he rides for Sky.

Pross

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.

You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.

He's right you know

But a lot of that is stuff that these people have built up themselves into something to beat Sky with.

Boring personalities? Like him or loathe him, Wiggins was hardly boring. G seems pretty well like and Rowe has plenty of character. It's hard to judge with foreign riders as they are interviewed either in a language I don't understand or are talking in a second language where it is difficult for a personality to shine through. Kwia seems like he has a bit about him though. Who are these riders on other teams who are massively entertaining personalities?

Perceived arrogance? Yes, in the early days but now a lot of other teams are cottoning on that a lot of that was just challenging the accepted norms and are starting to copy their practices. I think a lot of the dislike comes more from that, i.e. they didn't just follow tradition but looked at how to modernise and improve how things are done. Brailsford is an arrogant c0ck though.

The Salbutamol thing only became an issue as it was leaked when it shouldn't have been, probably deliberately to help stir things up. I think it was generally accepted by most sane people that the worst case was he'd accidentally used too much of a medication it was common knowledge he used. It falls into the category of people making sticks to beat them with, the same as Wiggins legitimate TUE.

The committee were just self-serving MPs trying to make a name for themselves and drawing conclusions that those with more knowledge of the subject than them couldn't reach. They even failed to allow the key witness (Wiggins) to present evidence. The 'lost' laptop was documented as having been stolen years before although the lack of backing up the data is inexcusable.

Murdoch - well, I think that's the crux of the matter in the UK. He is understandably disliked by large parts of the country and by politicians so if people see an opportunity to attack an entity he is associated with then they are happy to do so any way they can. Throw in the British propensity for disliking long term success and I think that's the biggest source of dislike in the UK. However, with fans from other countries I do think it's a combination of long term success by a team from outside the traditional cycling heartland (coupled, at the Tour in particular, with lack of success by their own riders in some cases) and a general dislike of the UK where that perceived arrogance probably comes into play.

I wonder if other teams were placed under such scrutiny by their home media, government and 'fans' would produce such 'evidence' of pushing the boundaries? I suspect they would.

It may be I just haven't noticed it but it seems to me the booing and abuse of Sky riders really only happens at the French stage races notably the Tour and Dauphine. They don't seem to be public enemy number 1 at the Classics, Giro or Vuelta.

rick_chasey

Blazing Saddles wrote:

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Perhaps they just aren't that popular because of the boring personalities, perceived arrogance, fudging of grey areas re doping, the sally and jiffy bag scandals and all the broo ha ha and committees and lost computers and stuff, the fact that its Murdoch behind them, amongst others.

You know, small things that don't really endear you to people when you are trying to create a following for your sporting team.

He's right you know

Cock.
Few of those yobs, yesterday, have a followed the grey area stories.
There just hasn't been the appetite for them in Europe. Non stories, pretty much.
Bu*ger all to being dull, too. If it were, how come Quintana missing the treatment?

It's all down to Froome's AAF and how it has been played out and depicted.
It is due the atmosphere created and fueled by certain factions of the press and a few high profile individuals seeking to "look after themselves." Plus a national trait or two.

Posted on BBC HYS just a few minutes ago.

Two of my sons are at the Tour. On both stage 11 and 12 yesterday GT and Froome were singled out for abuse by French fans. My lads said they witnessed French fans spitting and had water guns filled with urine and were shouting obscenities. My boys met up with some Welsh lads and they all witnessed the crowd throwing water bottles etc. The French hate us because we are winners.

Sounds almost exactly like the American fans moaning when Armstrong was getting grief on the alp in 2004.

Guys, it's pretty simple. The crowds don't like riders who dominate too much.

Anquetil got booed, Merckx got booed. Indurain got booed. Armstrong got booed.

It comes with the territory.

ddraver

As Rick says, if you win 5 TdFs you get booed on the last one

I'd also say that I don't think it's as much of a big deal in France as it is here. We get our british knickers in a twist about showing a feeling. For the French it's just a bit of a larf...