TDF 2018, Stage 12: Bourg-Saint-Maurice Les Arcs > Alpe d'Huez 19/07/2018 - 175,5 km *Spoilers*

pblakeney

No tA Doctor wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.

This.

You take a ridiculous climb, the Cima Coppi of the Giro with 21 hairpins at the bottom and gravel roads at the top, and guy that needs to pull minutes back attacks 80km out to solo to not only the stage but the Maglia Rosa, despite two fairly major climbs to come.... I'm just left a bit gobsmacked that anyone could find that anything other than exciting. It's the sort of attack that people should be talking about in 50 years time.

Very much this. Regardless of allegiances, if you watched that from the attack and were not entertained then watching cycling as a sport is not for you. It was as good as it gets from a neutral's point of view.

shirley_basso

DeadCalm wrote:

Topper harley wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.

its absolutely baffling how a 80k solo ride to win a grand tour is now called boring

Who called it boring?
What is boring is defending my own feelings from the Opinion Gestapo.
I'm stepping out of this discussion.

I don't think anyone will be missing your 'input' so hopefully you're not kept awake.

RoadPainter

Jez mon wrote:

Personally if that giro attack wasn't exciting then maybe you don't find cycling exciting?

I was on the Jaffrau and I didn't find it exciting at all. I was gutted that Yatesy had blown. I was pretty astounded at Froome's comeback but mainly felt despair that he had become the focus of the race, given I strongly believe he shouldn't have been racing. Froome riding the Giro cast sky's refusal to join MPCC in a new light.

Pretty cool seeing a race that had been smashed totally to smithereens though, chapeau for that.

inseine

RoadPainter wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Personally if that giro attack wasn't exciting then maybe you don't find cycling exciting?

I was on the Jaffrau and I didn't find it exciting at all. I was gutted that Yatesy had blown. I was pretty astounded at Froome's comeback but mainly felt despair that he had become the focus of the race, given I strongly believe he shouldn't have been racing. Froome riding the Giro cast sky's refusal to join MPCC in a new light.

Pretty cool seeing a race that had been smashed totally to smithereens though, chapeau for that.

That’s pretty funny since Mitchelton Scott are not in the MPCC

mamil314

DeadCalm wrote:

Topper harley wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

An 80km solo attack to win a GT is almost unprecedented, so saying you didn't find it exciting comes across like you're being deliberately contrary. That's why.

its absolutely baffling how a 80k solo ride to win a grand tour is now called boring

Who called it boring?
What is boring is defending my own feelings from the Opinion Gestapo.
I'm stepping out of this discussion.

Finally. So you don't like Froome, that's fine, I know where you say you are coming from. Hell, I stopped following F1 because of Schumacher and Rally because of Loeb. But you keep going on and on about it with endless justifications to remind everyone about it. Thank you for putting stop to that.

RoadPainter

inseine wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Personally if that giro attack wasn't exciting then maybe you don't find cycling exciting?

I was on the Jaffrau and I didn't find it exciting at all. I was gutted that Yatesy had blown. I was pretty astounded at Froome's comeback but mainly felt despair that he had become the focus of the race, given I strongly believe he shouldn't have been racing. Froome riding the Giro cast sky's refusal to join MPCC in a new light.

Pretty cool seeing a race that had been smashed totally to smithereens though, chapeau for that.

That’s pretty funny since Mitchelton Scott are not in the MPCC

I don't remember Greenedge claiming they wanted to be the most admired brand in sport or having a zero tolerance approach, or of saying they wouldn't use doctors previously involved in cycling. Good luck with all those now!
You don't think it's poor that Team Sky claimed all of those yet failed to join MPCC and now fail to meet MPCC standards?
I personally don't think sky have a program or any of the other loony conspiracies out there. But I do think they haven't lived up to their founding goals and Froome leak (I assume by UCI) and him racing before it was resolved created huge amounts of trust issues and poor publicity for a sport that doesn't need it!

Pross

The MPCC is a load of bollox invented by a group who want to be seen as anti-doping crusaders and who try to bully teams into joining by insinuating anyone who doesn’t is dirty. A few teams have been strong enough to resist that bullying so have to put up with their non-membership being used as guilt of questionable practices by the idiots who hold it up as the bastion of cleanliness in cycling. You hold far too much store by it.

Vino'sGhost

larkim wrote:

Are the hills they'll be riding in the Pyrenees really that distinctively different to the climbs they've already ridden in the Alps? The profiles don't look that different but maybe there's more subtle differences?

Yes they’re quite different, I always found the alps a more consistently hard experience like long intervals with recovery.

The Pyrenees has heavier roads, somehow more changes of rhythm it unremittingly hard some days. They’re just different.
I prefer the character of the Pyrenees.

topper_harley

inseine wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Personally if that giro attack wasn't exciting then maybe you don't find cycling exciting?

I was on the Jaffrau and I didn't find it exciting at all. I was gutted that Yatesy had blown. I was pretty astounded at Froome's comeback but mainly felt despair that he had become the focus of the race, given I strongly believe he shouldn't have been racing. Froome riding the Giro cast sky's refusal to join MPCC in a new light.

Pretty cool seeing a race that had been smashed totally to smithereens though, chapeau for that.

That’s pretty funny since Mitchelton Scott are not in the MPCC

Pross

OnYourRight wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

According to Gazzetta, Bahrain-Merida are preparing to take legal action against ASO.

Now we’re talking. This is the only language guys like Prudhomme understand.

I think they’d struggle, I’d suggest ASO had taken reasonable precautions at that point. Ironically he crashed at about the first point where they could demonstrate they’d put controls in place.

Vino'sGhost

Pross wrote:

The MPCC is a load of bollox invented by a group who want to be seen as anti-doping crusaders and who try to bully teams into joining by insinuating anyone who doesn’t is dirty. A few teams have been strong enough to resist that bullying so have to put up with their non-membership being used as guilt of questionable practices by the idiots who hold it up as the bastion of cleanliness in cycling. You hold far too much store by it.

I’ll tell you what’s bollox . Sky’s talk about how they’d do things differently etc etc. That’s turned out to be utter bollox.

Now bullying let’s talk about that. The character assassination of anyone with an alternative view , the assigning of labels designed to close down a discussion you’re losing.

Screaming sky fans unable to see what’s right in front of them. There is no help.

shirley_basso

What does vino do watching legal proceedings on TV then at the court case, his most hated defendant gets acquitted?

Sticks his mum's colander on his head, dusts off his list of big words and takes to the internet in search of justice. A life well lived.

blazing_saddles

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pross wrote:

The MPCC is a load of bollox invented by a group who want to be seen as anti-doping crusaders and who try to bully teams into joining by insinuating anyone who doesn’t is dirty. A few teams have been strong enough to resist that bullying so have to put up with their non-membership being used as guilt of questionable practices by the idiots who hold it up as the bastion of cleanliness in cycling. You hold far too much store by it.

I’ll tell you what’s bollox . Sky’s talk about how they’d do things differently etc etc. That’s turned out to be utter bollox.

Now bullying let’s talk about that. The character assassination of anyone with an alternative view , the assigning of labels designed to close down a discussion you’re losing.

Screaming sky fans unable to see what’s right in front of them. There is no help.

Vino'sGhost

Shirley Basso wrote:

What does vino do watching legal proceedings on TV then at the court case, his most hated defendant gets acquitted?

Sticks his mum's colander on his head, dusts off his list of big words and takes to the internet in search of justice. A life well lived.

Awww shirley, are you referring to Froome? He didn’t even get to the defendant stage.

Interesting response to my comment......

Btw babes you should watch something other than judge Judy

Pross

Vino'sGhost wrote:

I’ll tell you what’s bollox . Sky’s talk about how they’d do things differently etc etc. That’s turned out to be utter bollox.

If you’re hoping to get an argument out of me on that you’re going to be disappointed. It is probably the biggest mistake they’ve made and has been used ever since by those wanting to apply different standards to them but I guess it was sponsor led. I actually think Brailsford is a complete tool whether or not he is an organisational genius (which I doubt more and more).

Whilst there are a lot of riders at Sky that I like (Froome isn’t one of them) and I have an old friend working there as a soigneur I’m not the fan of the team it may appear. I just get fed up with unfounded allegations, insinuations and exaggerations and Sky are by far the team that face most of that partly due to the point you raise above and partly because they’ve dominated the Tour for 6 years.

Vino'sGhost

Pross wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

I’ll tell you what’s bollox . Sky’s talk about how they’d do things differently etc etc. That’s turned out to be utter bollox.

If you’re hoping to get an argument out of me on that you’re going to be disappointed. It is probably the biggest mistake they’ve made and has been used ever since by those wanting to apply different standards to them but I guess it was sponsor led. I actually think Brailsford is a complete tool whether or not he is an organisational genius (which I doubt more and more).

Whilst there are a lot of riders at Sky that I like (Froome isn’t one of them) and I have an old friend working there as a soigneur I’m not the fan of the team it may appear. I just get fed up with unfounded allegations, insinuations and exaggerations and Sky are by far the team that face most of that partly due to the point you raise above and partly because they’ve dominated the Tour for 6 years.

The mpcc whilst a voluntary code irrespective of what its early sponsors want to get out of it is a positive step forward; declarations of intent where behaviour is monitored by competitors and peers against a published code is more likely to be followed than sky’s alternative.

On the other hand it would have tied sky’s hands a little more.

I don’t think Brailsford a a tool, he’s been successful though I suspect he couldn’t repeat that elsewhere. He took advantage of the situation presented to him. If the disorganisation around records was intentional then he’s a genius. On the other hand if I shook his hand I’d check my fingers afterwards.

I also have some favourite riders in sky, Luke Rowe in particular. Thomas too. Froome was even growing on me until all this aaf stuff . His recent solo attack in the giro was great to watch but for me has dulled his appeal, he is either so much better than the others or a cheat (or both of course) .

FocusZing

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Pross wrote:

The MPCC is a load of bollox invented by a group who want to be seen as anti-doping crusaders and who try to bully teams into joining by insinuating anyone who doesn’t is dirty. A few teams have been strong enough to resist that bullying so have to put up with their non-membership being used as guilt of questionable practices by the idiots who hold it up as the bastion of cleanliness in cycling. You hold far too much store by it.

I’ll tell you what’s bollox . Sky’s talk about how they’d do things differently etc etc. That’s turned out to be utter bollox.

Now bullying let’s talk about that. The character assassination of anyone with an alternative view , the assigning of labels designed to close down a discussion you’re losing.

Screaming sky fans unable to see what’s right in front of them. There is no help.

Listen Vino! It's not about the race, it's about saving the oceans, species...the Earth. Pro teams don't ship carbon bikes, crew and a mass of kit around the world, just to prove they can cycle the quickest for nothing you know!

All the negativity towards the pursuit of Earth-saving is leaving a Numb feeling here!

rick_chasey

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana- ... de-france/

knedlicky

Pross wrote:

The MPCC is a load of bollox invented by a group who want to be seen as anti-doping crusaders and who try to bully teams into joining by insinuating anyone who doesn’t is dirty. A few teams have been strong enough to resist that bullying so have to put up with their non-membership being used as guilt of questionable practices by the idiots who hold it up as the bastion of cleanliness in cycling. You hold far too much store by it.

Sky should have joined MPCC after the Wiggins discussion and then more controlled their riders (so that Froome's values never ever became questionable), then they wouldn't have all this anti-Sky sentiment.
Bad PR, own fault.

knedlicky

RichN95 wrote:

larkim wrote:

Are the hills they'll be riding in the Pyrenees really that distinctively different to the climbs they've already ridden in the Alps? The profiles don't look that different but maybe there's more subtle differences?

They tend to be steeper, have more changeable gradients and have worse road surfaces. Also there's less valley between them.

The weather is usually more humid in the Pyrenees, which surely plays a role with some riders.

FocusZing