CMS hearings into the alleged culture of doping and bullying at British Cycling
Comments
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Desperate Dan has been handed his next target.
Seems these coaches are all at it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/disability-sport/39368319"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39339718
Wendy Houvenaghel the latest to sound off. I remember her being pretty P*ssed-off and vocal about missing out on a ride and a medal in the TP in 2012. Strangely though she didn't mention sexism or ageism at the time or immediately after when she announced her retirement.0 -
Yeah, they're ageist. That's why she was still retained at the age of 37. What did she expect? To be kept on until 41 ahead of the likes of Barker and Archibald.SPaM02 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39339718
Wendy Houvenaghel the latest to sound off. I remember her being pretty P*ssed-off and vocal about missing out on a ride and a medal in the TP in 2012. Strangely though she didn't mention sexism or ageism at the time or immediately after when she announced her retirement.
And why does she feel 'discarded' when she felt oppressed. Why does she want another four years of that?
Unlike Varnish, she had options - born in Northern Ireland. She could have ridden for Ireland. Why didn't she if GB was so awful.
Truth is she's angry that she didn't get to ride a round of the pursuit and get a gold medal, which she thinks is her right - just like Burke, Tennant & Cavendish didn't.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Thought this was spot on https://sport500.co.uk/as-with-chris-ho ... not-years/RichN95 wrote:
Yeah, they're ageist. That's why she was still retained at the age of 37. What did she expect? To be kept on until 41 ahead of the likes of Barker and Archibald.SPaM02 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39339718
Wendy Houvenaghel the latest to sound off. I remember her being pretty P*ssed-off and vocal about missing out on a ride and a medal in the TP in 2012. Strangely though she didn't mention sexism or ageism at the time or immediately after when she announced her retirement.
And why does she feel 'discarded' when she felt oppressed. Why does she want another four years of that?
Unlike Varnish, she had options - born in Northern Ireland. She could have ridden for Ireland. Why didn't she if GB was so awful.
Truth is she's angry that she didn't get to ride a round of the pursuit and get a gold medal, which she thinks is her right - just like Burke, Tennant & Cavendish didn't.0 -
Slim Boy Fat wrote:
Thought this was spot on https://sport500.co.uk/as-with-chris-ho ... not-years/RichN95 wrote:
Yeah, they're ageist. That's why she was still retained at the age of 37. What did she expect? To be kept on until 41 ahead of the likes of Barker and Archibald.SPaM02 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39339718
Wendy Houvenaghel the latest to sound off. I remember her being pretty P*ssed-off and vocal about missing out on a ride and a medal in the TP in 2012. Strangely though she didn't mention sexism or ageism at the time or immediately after when she announced her retirement.
And why does she feel 'discarded' when she felt oppressed. Why does she want another four years of that?
Unlike Varnish, she had options - born in Northern Ireland. She could have ridden for Ireland. Why didn't she if GB was so awful.
Truth is she's angry that she didn't get to ride a round of the pursuit and get a gold medal, which she thinks is her right - just like Burke, Tennant & Cavendish didn't.
Good article. That's quite a good site, not come across that before.0 -
Nice to read an article that is fact based in this whole saga rather than something based on Tweets and 'inside sources'.0
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Surely when going in to the Olympics as the favourites the "medaling is everything" approach is the only way there. I'd like to know how a perfectly run organisation would be perceived without the ROI called medals.
As for ageism, it's a reality in sport (and everywhere, just at different age levels). Chanderpaul being a prime example despite being the only light in a broken house.0 -
wombly knees wrote:Surely when going in to the Olympics as the favourites the "medaling is everything" approach is the only way there. I'd like to know how a perfectly run organisation would be perceived without the ROI called medals.
As for ageism, it's a reality in sport (and everywhere, just at different age levels). Chanderpaul being a prime example despite being the only light in a broken house.
When we return from the next Olympics with just a handful of medals across ALL sports due to our new 'it's not the winning it's the taking part that counts' attitude, you can bet that the Media and UK Sport/Sport England or whoever won't be there explaining to the general public that as long as the athletes feel loved it doesn't matter (group hug).
I wouldn't be surprised to see our better management/coaching staff in various sports move on to other countries where their methods are better appreciated. You can't tell me that someone like Shane Sutton couldn't walk into a new National job anywhere in the world if he wanted too.0 -
One of the comments I loved was the one about how after she was cut no-one from British cycling checked up on her. It shows how disconnected she is from the real world in my opinion. If I'm made redundant at work I'm not going to expect the company to get in touch with me afterwards to check up on how I'm doing.
This potential changing of the way sport is done is just going to mean we no longer achieve. As funding is based on medals the sports that maintain the cutthroat mindset that is needed to succeed at the top level will be the ones that get the funding. In the meantime British Cycling will fade away and end up being a two man (sorry, one man, one woman) operation that no-one talks about anymore, but which serves great biscuits and is a wonderful place to spend the day.0 -
Contrast the above with the attitude on here towards Josh Edmondson, One deserves a 'care package' and the other doesn't. Retiring from anything is a traumatic event, whether that is a 9-5 job, or a high pressure sporting environment. We have retirement planning programs for staff in my profession to specifically to avoid these problems.
It just makes me think that people on here have shitty double standards, and are total heartless fucks...0 -
She was 37. Retirement can't have come as a surprise to her. Edmondson on the other hand was 22Stridor wrote:Contrast the above with the attitude on here towards Josh Edmondson, One deserves a 'care package' and the other doesn't. Retiring from anything is a traumatic event, whether that is a 9-5 job, or a high pressure sporting environment. We have retirement planning programs for staff in my profession to specifically to avoid these problems.
It just makes me think that people on here have sh!tty double standards, and are total heartless f***s...Twitter: @RichN950 -
Like I said, total heartless fucks. It doesn't matter how old they are, there is a duty of care owed.0
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And was in a very dark place according to Peters.RichN95 wrote:
She was 37. Retirement can't have come as a surprise to her. Edmondson on the other hand was 22Stridor wrote:Contrast the above with the attitude on here towards Josh Edmondson, One deserves a 'care package' and the other doesn't. Retiring from anything is a traumatic event, whether that is a 9-5 job, or a high pressure sporting environment. We have retirement planning programs for staff in my profession to specifically to avoid these problems.
It just makes me think that people on here have sh!tty double standards, and are total heartless f***s...0 -
squired wrote:One of the comments I loved was the one about how after she was cut no-one from British cycling checked up on her. It shows how disconnected she is from the real world in my opinion. If I'm made redundant at work I'm not going to expect the company to get in touch with me afterwards to check up on how I'm doing.
Is it also acceptable at your work for senior management to routinely refer to the female staff as bitches ?
Houvenaghel's accusations aren't exactly new so to that extent it's a bit cheeky of the media to report them as if they are but at the same time they do amount to a bit more than "they didn't pick me for a round of the team pursuit just so I could get a medal" which is how some on here are portraying them.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I think we'd all do well to be able to separate what is just selection politics, which always puts noses out of joint, and genuine sexism and/or bullying.
There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread on that.0 -
Page after page after page on this topic has been people writing:
Yah, yah, yah, sport is a harsh environment, these women should man the fuck up, waddaya want, no medals!! ad nauseum, and then when confronted with the real world consequences of that 'harsh environment' in Josh Edmonson, the posters are all of a sudden: OOOH poor bumpy, we must be nice to him because the poor sausage is depressed, but equally not grasping that their attitude over the preceeding pages contributes to the atmosphere that can and does cause depression and anxiety.
It is far, far better to create an environment where that potential descent into depression is recognized, acknowledged, and avoided.
If that involves being 'nice' to people then that is what is needed. Not acting like bastards and then leaving others to pick up the pieces because you know MEDALS........!
And just as an aside it is really poor to think that age carries more weight and value when dealing with depression. We should be nicer because someone is 22 and not 37? No, no way, that is just pathetic...0 -
Slim Boy Fat wrote:
And was in a very dark place according to Peters.RichN95 wrote:
She was 37. Retirement can't have come as a surprise to her. Edmondson on the other hand was 22Stridor wrote:Contrast the above with the attitude on here towards Josh Edmondson, One deserves a 'care package' and the other doesn't. Retiring from anything is a traumatic event, whether that is a 9-5 job, or a high pressure sporting environment. We have retirement planning programs for staff in my profession to specifically to avoid these problems.
It just makes me think that people on here have sh!tty double standards, and are total heartless f***s...
Maghera?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Where has anyone said Houvenhagel had despression?Stridor wrote:And just as an aside it is really poor to think that age carries more weight and value when dealing with depression. We should be nicer because someone is 22 and not 37? No, no way, that is just pathetic...
She got to the end of the Olympic cycle at the age of 37. If she hasn't sorted out what she's going to after cycling by then, when will she? Every sports person has to retire around then. Did she think she was ageless? She seems angry that she was expected to do something for herself.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Ok
So lets look at some race data from track champs as it was getting at the point end building to the London Olympics.
4th and final World Cup of the 2011-2012 Track World Cup programme. London. Serving as the official prep event ahead of the Olympics:
Qualies: GB line-up: Trott, Houvenaghel, Rowsell. Post 2nd fastest time behind Canada
Gold medal final: Trott, King, Rowsell. Beat Canada, set new WR
Then the Track Worlds:
Qualies: GB line-up: Trott, King, Rowsell. Post fastest time, set new WR
Gold medal final: Trott, King, Rowsell. Beat Aus, set new WR
So. Did Wendy H really truly feel she was dropped because of age discrimination?
Cmon, Trott-King-Rowsell melded into an incredible, unbeatable, WR-smashing unit0 -
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet and are misrepresenting both the facts as we know them and what is being discussed here. From what I've read people are saying that Edmonson got himself into bother which resulted in a very bad state of mind and needed care as a result. Houvenaghel wasn't good enough to make the team, possibly because she was coming towards the end of her career and was let go. Two very different situations, no?Stridor wrote:Page after page after page on this topic has been people writing:
Yah, yah, yah, sport is a harsh environment, these women should man the fark up, waddaya want, no medals!! ad nauseum, and then when confronted with the real world consequences of that 'harsh environment' in Josh Edmonson, the posters are all of a sudden: OOOH poor bumpy, we must be nice to him because the poor sausage is depressed, but equally not grasping that their attitude over the preceeding pages contributes to the atmosphere that can and does cause depression and anxiety.
It is far, far better to create an environment where that potential descent into depression is recognized, acknowledged, and avoided.
If that involves being 'nice' to people then that is what is needed. Not acting like bastards and then leaving others to pick up the pieces because you know MEDALS........!
And just as an aside it is really poor to think that age carries more weight and value when dealing with depression. We should be nicer because someone is 22 and not 37? No, no way, that is just pathetic...0 -
Wendy H also went on a tear to the press after the London Olympics about Trott, King and Roswell having been 'immature' and all Mean Girl on her. Turned out that was actually about them not having flocked around her, crying with her over her non-selection.
''Twas a tad desparate IMO0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Wendy H also went on a tear to the press after the London Olympics about Trott, King and Roswell having been 'immature' and all Mean Girl on her. Turned out that was actually about them not having flocked around her, crying with her over her non-selection.
''Twas a tad desparate IMO
Is it acceptable for senior riders to routinely refer to the female colleagues as mean girls? :P"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Slim Boy Fat wrote:
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet and are misrepresenting both the facts as we know them and what is being discussed here. From what I've read people are saying that Edmonson got himself into bother which resulted in a very bad state of mind and needed care as a result. Houvenaghel wasn't good enough to make the team, possibly because she was coming towards the end of her career and was let go. Two very different situations, no?Stridor wrote:Page after page after page on this topic has been people writing:
Yah, yah, yah, sport is a harsh environment, these women should man the fark up, waddaya want, no medals!! ad nauseum, and then when confronted with the real world consequences of that 'harsh environment' in Josh Edmonson, the posters are all of a sudden: OOOH poor bumpy, we must be nice to him because the poor sausage is depressed, but equally not grasping that their attitude over the preceeding pages contributes to the atmosphere that can and does cause depression and anxiety.
It is far, far better to create an environment where that potential descent into depression is recognized, acknowledged, and avoided.
If that involves being 'nice' to people then that is what is needed. Not acting like bastards and then leaving others to pick up the pieces because you know MEDALS........!
And just as an aside it is really poor to think that age carries more weight and value when dealing with depression. We should be nicer because someone is 22 and not 37? No, no way, that is just pathetic...
Pretty sure the same Steve Peters who looked out for Josh Edmonson was part of the BC team for London 2012 and therefore available to offer support to WH if she needed it. By the way, not sure why you have brought JE into this as his 'duty of care' was a Team Sky matter and nothing to do with British Cycling.0 -
Isn't Houvenaghal a qualified dentist, and did that before she was a full time cyclist on the BC Olympic programme? She hardly needs support if she has that to go back to.
Added: Yes, she is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Houvenaghel0 -
Think it was Stridor that brought Edmonson into it not meSPaM02 wrote:Slim Boy Fat wrote:
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet and are misrepresenting both the facts as we know them and what is being discussed here. From what I've read people are saying that Edmonson got himself into bother which resulted in a very bad state of mind and needed care as a result. Houvenaghel wasn't good enough to make the team, possibly because she was coming towards the end of her career and was let go. Two very different situations, no?Stridor wrote:Page after page after page on this topic has been people writing:
Yah, yah, yah, sport is a harsh environment, these women should man the fark up, waddaya want, no medals!! ad nauseum, and then when confronted with the real world consequences of that 'harsh environment' in Josh Edmonson, the posters are all of a sudden: OOOH poor bumpy, we must be nice to him because the poor sausage is depressed, but equally not grasping that their attitude over the preceeding pages contributes to the atmosphere that can and does cause depression and anxiety.
It is far, far better to create an environment where that potential descent into depression is recognized, acknowledged, and avoided.
If that involves being 'nice' to people then that is what is needed. Not acting like bastards and then leaving others to pick up the pieces because you know MEDALS........!
And just as an aside it is really poor to think that age carries more weight and value when dealing with depression. We should be nicer because someone is 22 and not 37? No, no way, that is just pathetic...
Pretty sure the same Steve Peters who looked out for Josh Edmonson was part of the BC team for London 2012 and therefore available to offer support to WH if she needed it. By the way, not sure why you have brought JE into this as his 'duty of care' was a Team Sky matter and nothing to do with British Cycling.
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Blazing Saddles wrote:Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Wendy H also went on a tear to the press after the London Olympics about Trott, King and Roswell having been 'immature' and all Mean Girl on her. Turned out that was actually about them not having flocked around her, crying with her over her non-selection.
''Twas a tad desparate IMO
Is it acceptable for senior riders to routinely refer to the female colleagues as mean girls? :P
No it's not acceptable for senior riders to bully younger riders - if true the senior management that allowed a culture like that to exist should be sacked.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Wendy H also went on a tear to the press after the London Olympics about Trott, King and Roswell having been 'immature' and all Mean Girl on her. Turned out that was actually about them not having flocked around her, crying with her over her non-selection.
''Twas a tad desparate IMO
Is it acceptable for senior riders to routinely refer to the female colleagues as mean girls? :P
But...but...she's female and so there can be no possibility whatsoever of any of that, shirley
#narrative0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Wendy H also went on a tear to the press after the London Olympics about Trott, King and Roswell having been 'immature' and all Mean Girl on her. Turned out that was actually about them not having flocked around her, crying with her over her non-selection.
''Twas a tad desparate IMO
Is it acceptable for senior riders to routinely refer to the female colleagues as mean girls? :P
No it's not acceptable for senior riders to bully younger riders - if true the senior management that allowed a culture like that to exist should be sacked.
I assume you're being sarcastic and don't genuinely think that BC management can be held responsible for the behaviour and words of every cyclists in their squads let alone one who is pretty much an ex-rider? Then again given that the current trend seems to be blame for everything they do, did and don't do who knows?0 -
^Quite0
