CMS hearings into the alleged culture of doping and bullying at British Cycling

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  • frisbee
    frisbee Posts: 691
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    And here we have those happy to attack. Crack on. I think sky aren't whiter than white. I think based on 30plus years of watching this sport that Wiggins is a cheat. He may not be. This isn't a trolls perspective it's one born of long experience.

    Ive had personal abuse thrown at me by those who've invested in the wiggins / sky story, just like I did by those invested in the Armstrong / usps story. In the end the truth comes out. I sincerely hope Wiggins and sky are clean even though I don't believe they are.

    But when it comes out why shouldn't I laugh at those who threw abuse?

    Troll tactic #12 Falsely assert that other people are heavily invested in an individual or team. :lol:

    Troll tactic #17 Blather on about how their only concern is truth and justice. :lol:

    Troll tactic #27 Get butt hurt constantly at the slightest personal comment. :lol:


    lol I'm not hurt but you bandy around the word troll as a means of self validation. Looking for support from the others invested in the myth.

    Feeling you have the factual and moral high ground. It makes me laugh, you're like trumps facts revision team. Blind to the truth and insulted by different opinions.

    Whoosh! :cry:
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Pross wrote:
    On the no needles policy, how do Team Novo Nordisk manage with insulin out of interest (and any diabetics on other teams)?
    Novo have TUEs - insulin is actually a banned substance. Elsewhere, an injection is allowed if it is reported to UCI and the rider takes 8 days off racing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Pross wrote:
    On the no needles policy, how do Team Novo Nordisk manage with insulin out of interest (and any diabetics on other teams)?

    As luck would have it, this got a mention during commentary.
    Bottom line is that if they have to inject during a race, then they inject.
    That's is according to Mr R Hatch.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    smithy21 wrote:
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    But when it comes out why shouldn't I laugh at those who threw abuse?

    With all due respect, this is where I (and possibly others) have a problem - the cast iron certainty that serious wrong-doing has been going on and that there is definitely proven doping violations to come out.

    All we've had is a 'doping' scandal without the doping: a possibly questionable TUE, a jiffy bag that may or may not have something ropy in it, and someone who might have been injecting vitamins that Sky declined to throw under the bus. But some people seem determined that this is LA/US Postal all over again. If that comes out, then so be it, but there really hasn't been signs anything like that is coming. And plenty enough people have been made unhappy by Sky that haven't had anything else to offer.

    But he is only expressing a point of view. There are equal and opposite reactions to this on the board as well from the nothing to see here brigade.
    I see very little of that. I see a lot of 'they could be but I haven't seen any proof yet'. That's a very different stance to take compared to 'they are defo at it'.
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    ^ really.

    Vino thinks they are at it. Other people don't.

    No-one knows but each opinion is valid and could be correct. I just see a lot of people trying to shut down opinions or calling troll or bot.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    smithy21 wrote:
    ^ really.

    Vino thinks they are at it. Other people don't.

    No-one knows but each opinion is valid and could be correct. I just see a lot of people trying to shut down opinions or calling troll or bot.

    I think the point people are making is he states it as fact e.g. 'when Sky get caught' not 'if Sky get caught' (although he did say he thinks Wiggins is a cheat so just opinion there!).
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    All we've had is a 'doping' scandal without the doping: a possibly questionable TUE, a jiffy bag that may or may not have something ropy in it, and someone who might have been injecting vitamins that Sky declined to throw under the bus. But some people seem determined that this is LA/US Postal all over again. If that comes out, then so be it, but there really hasn't been signs anything like that is coming. And plenty enough people have been made unhappy by Sky that haven't had anything else to offer.


    I don't think that's true - maybe on other forums like this Clinic I don't frequent - but on here I've not seen anyone suggest Sky are doing anything even close to running a Discovery style doping programme. It's just that some are unwilling to accept even the possibility that Sky have bent the rules.

    We had the same with the motors in bikes thing - anyone that even considered that a possibility was some kind of nutter - until it actually happened that a rider was caught of course.

    Doesn't everyone think Sky have bent the rules??
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    After his good Friday, Dublin Dan Roan's weekend seems to have gone downhill, fast!. :D
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • frisbee
    frisbee Posts: 691
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    On the no needles policy, how do Team Novo Nordisk manage with insulin out of interest (and any diabetics on other teams)?

    As luck would have it, this got a mention during commentary.
    Bottom line is that if they have to inject during a race, then they inject.
    That's is according to Mr R Hatch.

    Sticky needle?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    To be fair to Vino, at least he watches the sport and contributes to racing threads unlike the likes of Cuthbert, WCF and the others.


    A troll is still a troll

    It's just different opinions that you struggle with, get over yourself.

    Still can't tell us what illegal drugs they've been using mind.
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    All we've had is a 'doping' scandal without the doping: a possibly questionable TUE, a jiffy bag that may or may not have something ropy in it, and someone who might have been injecting vitamins that Sky declined to throw under the bus. But some people seem determined that this is LA/US Postal all over again. If that comes out, then so be it, but there really hasn't been signs anything like that is coming. And plenty enough people have been made unhappy by Sky that haven't had anything else to offer.


    I don't think that's true - maybe on other forums like this Clinic I don't frequent - but on here I've not seen anyone suggest Sky are doing anything even close to running a Discovery style doping programme. It's just that some are unwilling to accept even the possibility that Sky have bent the rules.

    We had the same with the motors in bikes thing - anyone that even considered that a possibility was some kind of nutter - until it actually happened that a rider was caught of course.

    Doesn't everyone think Sky have bent the rules??

    I don't

    They've either broken them or they haven't

    They've either used Triamcinolone in competition (ie on the bus at the Dauphine) or they haven't

    They've either falsely applied for a TUE for competitive advantage/to cover OOC usage being detected early in a stage race or they haven't

    If a reliable witness puts Triamcinolone in the jiffy bag which Sutton already agrees was administered on the bus then it's over. 2 year ban for Wiggins. Bye bye TDF.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    After his good Friday, Dublin Dan Roan's weekend seems to have gone downhill, fast!. :D

    You're welcome.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TailWindHome wrote:

    I don't

    They've either broken them or they haven't

    They've either used Triamcinolone in competition (ie on the bus at the Dauphine) or they haven't

    They've either falsely applied for a TUE for competitive advantage/to cover OOC usage being detected early in a stage race or they haven't

    If a reliable witness puts Triamcinolone in the jiffy bag which Sutton already agrees was administered on the bus then it's over. 2 year ban for Wiggins. Bye bye TDF.
    I doubt it would be a two year ban.

    For a start, it was in practice OOC. Now, I know the rules say up to 12am, but he had finished the event and been discharged from dope testing. By today's rules it would be OOC and people tend to be reluctant to prosecute breaches of rules that no longer exist.

    I expect that it would be considered much like Simon Yates's offence - one with no intent to break rules.

    And as for no needles rules - the maximum ban is six months for a first offence. And as they have already indicated to UCI their intention to use the drug, probably less.

    UKAD might go big to show they are being tough - but it wouldn't survive CAS.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    RichN95 wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:

    I don't

    They've either broken them or they haven't

    They've either used Triamcinolone in competition (ie on the bus at the Dauphine) or they haven't

    They've either falsely applied for a TUE for competitive advantage/to cover OOC usage being detected early in a stage race or they haven't

    If a reliable witness puts Triamcinolone in the jiffy bag which Sutton already agrees was administered on the bus then it's over. 2 year ban for Wiggins. Bye bye TDF.
    I doubt it would be a two year ban.

    For a start, it was in practice OOC. Now, I know the rules say up to 12am, but he had finished the event and been discharged from dope testing. By today's rules it would be OOC and people tend to be reluctant to prosecute breaches of rules that no longer exist.

    I expect that it would be considered much like Simon Yates's offence - one with no intent to break rules.

    Yes.
    But should a witness put Triamcinolone in the jiffy bag, how are Sky going to 'walk back' the Flumacil story to support an honest mistake defence.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Yes.
    But should a witness put Triamcinolone in the jiffy bag, how are Sky going to 'walk back' the Flumacil story to support an honest mistake defence.
    I'm not saying that there wouldn't be trouble - just that a two year back dated ban with the loss of subsequent results for Wiggins is a little fanciful.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    I'm off to ride my bike. In a jiffy so to speak.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    Pross wrote:
    On the no needles policy, how do Team Novo Nordisk manage with insulin out of interest (and any diabetics on other teams)?

    They have TUE's...No, really

    (Oh sorry, way too late...)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • EnacheV
    EnacheV Posts: 235
    damn bullies they keep winning monuments and grand tours. i bet there are 22 world tour teams trying to get lessons in bullying!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    EnacheV wrote:
    damn bullies they keep winning monuments and grand tours. i bet there are 22 world tour teams trying to get lessons in bullying!

    Is that why you do stuff like this?

    https://twitter.com/EnacheVladian/statu ... 8129181696
    _
  • EnacheV
    EnacheV Posts: 235
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    EnacheV wrote:
    damn bullies they keep winning monuments and grand tours. i bet there are 22 world tour teams trying to get lessons in bullying!

    Is that why you do stuff like this?

    https://twitter.com/EnacheVladian/statu ... 8129181696

    you know doxxing is punished by law right ? so watch out how far you go.

    you are also off topic, doing a personal attack. but i guess that's something expected from a mod on a website owned by the same entity that owns the xxxxxx called cyclingnews forum.

    also, that post is a very polite way to address a clown with some power used wrongly. if JTL can adress this way then i surely can also.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I figured since you used the same name on here as on there you'd be OK with it.

    You could also have asked me to remove the link, but instead chose to quote it.

    D'ya want me to? You'll have to edit your own post mind.
    _
  • EnacheV
    EnacheV Posts: 235
    it's ok , i don't care, you can leave the link. but this is going really offtopic ...
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    The only way Sky can restore their credibility is to join an organisation without any credibility says man who runs the organisation without credibility;

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... redibility
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,557
    Seems like the f'wits at UK Sport are going to withhold £17m of GRASS ROOTS funding due to the issues surrounding the elite programmes at British Cycling. You could make it up could you? Penalize the kids for the failings at the top (they secretly love all those medals but don't give a f@ck about grass roots sport:
    http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/2498/sport-england-withhold-funding-due-to-concerns-over-british-cycling
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Seems like the f'wits at UK Sport are going to withhold £17m of GRASS ROOTS funding due to the issues surrounding the elite programmes at British Cycling. You could make it up could you? Penalize the kids for the failings at the top (they secretly love all those medals but don't give a f@ck about grass roots sport:
    http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/2498/sport-england-withhold-funding-due-to-concerns-over-british-cycling

    It's called the butterfly effect.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Lanterne_Rogue
    Lanterne_Rogue Posts: 4,332
    andyp wrote:
    The only way Sky can restore their credibility is to join an organisation without any credibility says man who runs the organisation without credibility;

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... redibility

    I'll be honest, I saw the headline, assumed I knew what the story would be, and decided not to even bother clicking on it to confirm my prejudices. I was right, wasn't I?

    (if this sounds jaded, I've somehow managed to bugger up fixing a simple puncture four times in the space of an hour - my tolerance for publicity hounds squarking about doping is pretty low...)
    Twitter: @canocola @thedreadships
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Dorset Boy wrote:
    Seems like the f'wits at UK Sport are going to withhold £17m of GRASS ROOTS funding due to the issues surrounding the elite programmes at British Cycling. You could make it up could you? Penalize the kids for the failings at the top (they secretly love all those medals but don't give a f@ck about grass roots sport:
    http://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/2498/sport-england-withhold-funding-due-to-concerns-over-british-cycling



    Its Sport England, not UK Sport. Soz, pendant alert - they are different organisations who enjoy a bit of pseudo rivalry. Sport England allocate the dosh for grassroots sport etc in England, UK Sport more the performance aspect i.e. medal generation, across the UK-wide NGBs.

    I know that Sport England have been monitoring the dramarama for some time. At the same time, the money they get from the Govt has been cut so in turn Sports England have cut funding for a number of other sports so I think they're rather sensitive at the moment. They're not stripping BC of funds, but genuinely have concerns and want to see that action plan - and believe in it. Might still end up slashing some £££ off the 17m, mind - could be very convenient to do so.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    People's front of Judea, not Judean people's front?
    _
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    People's front of Judea, not Judean people's front?


    Yeah, a bit of that tbf
  • spam02
    spam02 Posts: 178
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    People's front of Judea, not Judean people's front?

    "Now you listen 'ere, he's not the New Chairman, he's a very naughty boy"

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