CMS hearings into the alleged culture of doping and bullying at British Cycling
Comments
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chuuurles wrote:this is a great circle jerk boyz!
Your private life is off topic.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:chuuurles wrote:this is a great circle jerk boyz!
Your private life is off topic.
this is more on topic, have a listen m8.
https://dneilmusic14.blogspot.ca/2017/03/david-walsh-nails-dave-brailsford-on.html0 -
Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.0
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KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?0 -
The problem is that they never said they were 'whiter than white' - that was a claim made for them by the media misconstruing their 'zero tolerance policy' (which related to recruitment)bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).Twitter: @RichN950 -
Perhaps next time Walsh is enjoying his nice press room at a 6 nations game, he can ask some of the players about their use of Cortisone as well, if he thinks it's dodgy.0
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RichN95 wrote:
The problem is that they never said they were 'whiter than white' - that was a claim made for them by the media misconstruing their 'zero tolerance policy' (which related to recruitment)bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Mmmmmmmmm I'm not so sure. I'd need to research specific quotes, but Brailsford etc didn't do anything to un-misconstrue anything...0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.0 -
Have a read of Richard Moore's book about Sky's first season. Both Brailsford and Freeman say that they are willing to go 'up to the line' but not over it (riders may not agree though). And it's probably an attitude they have pulled back from as the sport has changed - but this was at the end of 2010.bobmcstuff wrote:RichN95 wrote:
The problem is that they never said they were 'whiter than white' - that was a claim made for them by the media misconstruing their 'zero tolerance policy' (which related to recruitment)bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Mmmmmmmmm I'm not so sure. I'd need to research specific quotes, but Brailsford etc didn't do anything to un-misconstrue anything...Twitter: @RichN950 -
sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.
Legally? No. But morally/ethically? Depends on your viewpoint.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.
Legally? No. But morally/ethically? Depends on your viewpoint.
Isnt it then down to WADA \ UCI to ban practises that aren't considered morally correct ?0 -
sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.
Legally? No. But morally/ethically? Depends on your viewpoint.
Isnt it then down to WADA \ UCI to ban practises that aren't considered morally correct ?
Whose morals are they going to use as a baseline?0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
UKAD
British Cycling
The Police Force
Customs and Excise
The House of Lords
Most major car manufactures
Most telecoms companies
Supermarkets
Councils and local authorities
Airlines
Computer manufacturers
Sortware developers
etc etc.....
Must be tough being perfect but mist also make life pretty tough.
To quote you: Nothing there has any relevance to this thread.
I was illustrating the relevance of your post sweetheart, no need to drag it out x0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Have a read of Richard Moore's book about Sky's first season. Both Brailsford and Freeman say that they are willing to go 'up to the line' but not over it (riders may not agree though). And it's probably an attitude they have pulled back from as the sport has changed - but this was at the end of 2010.bobmcstuff wrote:RichN95 wrote:
The problem is that they never said they were 'whiter than white' - that was a claim made for them by the media misconstruing their 'zero tolerance policy' (which related to recruitment)bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Mmmmmmmmm I'm not so sure. I'd need to research specific quotes, but Brailsford etc didn't do anything to un-misconstrue anything...
A quote from the Guardian...
"We move on to the crux of the matter – whether a “marginal-gains” mantra that now apparently stretches into a desire to do everything within the rules to win is compatible with Sky’s lofty ideals. “We started out with our famous zero-tolerance policy. You ask if I regret that and no I don’t. It’s given us some challenges along the way but I don’t regret it,” says Brailsford.
What happens, though, in the grey zone where marginal gains collide with zero tolerance? “It’s a good question. I don’t think marginal gains is medical. We want healthy athletes, for sure. When we map out our season and our critical success factors, our key impact indicators we call them, one of them is to ensure our riders are in absolutely robust health. For me, marginal gains is about continuous improvement.”
I don't think that this is a reference to recruitment0 -
He's not exactly ruling it out legal medicine though. As he rightly points out, marginal gains is about improvement (and innovation). It's also usually misrepresented and overstated by people too.Yellow Peril wrote:
A quote from the Guardian...
"We move on to the crux of the matter – whether a “marginal-gains” mantra that now apparently stretches into a desire to do everything within the rules to win is compatible with Sky’s lofty ideals. “We started out with our famous zero-tolerance policy. You ask if I regret that and no I don’t. It’s given us some challenges along the way but I don’t regret it,” says Brailsford.
What happens, though, in the grey zone where marginal gains collide with zero tolerance? “It’s a good question. I don’t think marginal gains is medical. We want healthy athletes, for sure. When we map out our season and our critical success factors, our key impact indicators we call them, one of them is to ensure our riders are in absolutely robust health. For me, marginal gains is about continuous improvement.”
I don't think that this is a reference to recruitmentTwitter: @RichN950 -
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Bingo0
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bobmcstuff wrote:sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.
Legally? No. But morally/ethically? Depends on your viewpoint.
This constant colour referencing is very unhelpful.
Never mind 'black and white', it seems even the 'grey area' has now become beige............but 'beige' is still 'wrong' and DB should be sacked etc etc...not that there's any evidence that any actual (black?) rules have been broken. As for this 'whiter than white' thing................what is 'whiter than white'? No dietry supplements, vitamins...............antibiotics etc.
All just serves to perpetuate the ambiguity and provide further noise for Daily Mail et al.
To my mind, the only viewpoint that matters is WADA/UKAD..................everying else is just opinion and, as we all know, differences of opinion on anything is infinite and therefore no basis for a robust set of rules.
If UKAD find that rules have been broken or there is evidence to suggest that Sky/BC have deliberately sought to decieve/obstruct a UKAD doping investigation, then Sky/BC deserve to feel the full force, no question.0 -
pedro118118 wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.
Legally? No. But morally/ethically? Depends on your viewpoint.
This constant colour referencing is very unhelpful.
Never mind 'black and white', it seems even the 'grey area' has now become beige............but 'beige' is still 'wrong' and DB should be sacked etc etc...not that there's any evidence that any actual (black?) rules have been broken. As for this 'whiter than white' thing................what is 'whiter than white'? No dietry supplements, vitamins...............antibiotics etc.
All just serves to perpetuate the ambiguity and provide further noise for Daily Mail et al.
.
The line is blue if that helps
http://pages.rapha.cc/team-sky/the-thin-blue-line“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Sounds like the review into BC is going to be fair and balanced :roll:
From an interview in The Times today with Jo Rowsell-Shand
"But, while the 28-year-old admits that things are far from perfect, she does not think that the representation of British Cycling in particular is fair, pointing out that only those with an axe to grind were asked to give evidence and that she would not have succeeded in the sport were it not for the culture there."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/as-her-golden-career-comes-to-an-end-rowsell-shand-insists-british-cycling-is-not-sexist-9fkgtvvfq?shareToken=7bc7175b64e346da36e0664f6d1872a90 -
TailWindHome wrote:pedro118118 wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:sherer wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:Give me the précis, I can't work, watch DePanne and listen to that at the same time.
Nothing new - It's just David Walsh saying Wiggins' triamcinolone use is dodgy and how Sky setting themselves up as whiter than white then playing in the grey area iz bad (which, to be fair, it is).
Interesting he still supports basically everyone else in Sky inc Froome. Not sure how that goes down in the Asylum?
Are there grey areas ? It's either illegal or not.
Legally? No. But morally/ethically? Depends on your viewpoint.
This constant colour referencing is very unhelpful.
Never mind 'black and white', it seems even the 'grey area' has now become beige............but 'beige' is still 'wrong' and DB should be sacked etc etc...not that there's any evidence that any actual (black?) rules have been broken. As for this 'whiter than white' thing................what is 'whiter than white'? No dietry supplements, vitamins...............antibiotics etc.
All just serves to perpetuate the ambiguity and provide further noise for Daily Mail et al.
.
The line is blue if that helps
http://pages.rapha.cc/team-sky/the-thin-blue-line
Now it all makes sense... 0 -
Good interview that with Joanna R-S. Honest and balanced unlike most of the unsubtle hints and innuendo published in other 'papers'.0
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r0bh wrote:Sounds like the review into BC is going to be fair and balanced :roll:
From an interview in The Times today with Jo Rowsell-Shand
"But, while the 28-year-old admits that things are far from perfect, she does not think that the representation of British Cycling in particular is fair, pointing out that only those with an axe to grind were asked to give evidence and that she would not have succeeded in the sport were it not for the culture there."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/as-her-golden-career-comes-to-an-end-rowsell-shand-insists-british-cycling-is-not-sexist-9fkgtvvfq?shareToken=7bc7175b64e346da36e0664f6d1872a9
I can confirm this.
A hatchet job.
Closest team mates to JV or working with SS, not invited to give evidence.
What happened next, as far as "we" are concerned, I will add later.........if I can.
It is astounding, given what Sky have recently been grilled on, in front of the CMS."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I really don't get it. Surely, as part of any review, the person leading the review should be interviewing all involved. Or at the very least a comprehensive representative sample? To hear that the likes of JRS (and Wiggins) haven't even been interviewed beggars belief and simply exposes the review/report to being torn apart/discredited by any advocate worth a damn. Perhaps JRS's comments will encourage other athletes, who do not feel that they have been mistreated to come forward. Or perhaps it's just coincidence that it's the non-medalists over the last 2/3 Olympic cycles are the ones bleeting - he/she who complains loudest is the one who gets noticed/listened to etc etc...0
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If true that is simply appalling.Blazing Saddles wrote:r0bh wrote:Sounds like the review into BC is going to be fair and balanced :roll:
From an interview in The Times today with Jo Rowsell-Shand
"But, while the 28-year-old admits that things are far from perfect, she does not think that the representation of British Cycling in particular is fair, pointing out that only those with an axe to grind were asked to give evidence and that she would not have succeeded in the sport were it not for the culture there."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/as-her-golden-career-comes-to-an-end-rowsell-shand-insists-british-cycling-is-not-sexist-9fkgtvvfq?shareToken=7bc7175b64e346da36e0664f6d1872a9
I can confirm this.
A hatchet job.
Closest team mates to JV or working with SS, not invited to give evidence.
What happened next, as far as "we" are concerned, I will add later.........if I can.
It is astounding, given what Sky have recently been grilled on, in front of the CMS.0 -
Slim Boy Fat wrote:
If true that is simply appalling.Blazing Saddles wrote:r0bh wrote:Sounds like the review into BC is going to be fair and balanced :roll:
From an interview in The Times today with Jo Rowsell-Shand
"But, while the 28-year-old admits that things are far from perfect, she does not think that the representation of British Cycling in particular is fair, pointing out that only those with an axe to grind were asked to give evidence and that she would not have succeeded in the sport were it not for the culture there."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/as-her-golden-career-comes-to-an-end-rowsell-shand-insists-british-cycling-is-not-sexist-9fkgtvvfq?shareToken=7bc7175b64e346da36e0664f6d1872a9
I can confirm this.
A hatchet job.
Closest team mates to JV or working with SS, not invited to give evidence.
What happened next, as far as "we" are concerned, I will add later.........if I can.
It is astounding, given what Sky have recently been grilled on, in front of the CMS.
It's true.
Not good.0 -
pedro118118 wrote:I really don't get it. Surely, as part of any review, the person leading the review should be interviewing all involved. Or at the very least a comprehensive representative sample? To hear that the likes of JRS (and Wiggins) haven't even been interviewed beggars belief and simply exposes the review/report to being torn apart/discredited by any advocate worth a damn. Perhaps JRS's comments will encourage other athletes, who do not feel that they have been mistreated to come forward. Or perhaps it's just coincidence that it's the non-medalists over the last 2/3 Olympic cycles are the ones bleeting - he/she who complains loudest is the one who gets noticed/listened to etc etc...
The problem as I see it now though is this is completely Media driven and as a result, the conclusions of the forthcoming Report were decided long before any interviews began. BC have lost any control over this by allegedly sweeping the findings of their own previous report under the carpet and giving UK Sport a sanitised version. As a result they have no say in this at all. UK Sport have been criticised themselves for the Medal-centric focus they have imposed on cycling (and other sports) and the additional pressure to succeed at any costs this imposes, and as a result they need to pass some of that criticism down the line. They will bow down to the media in this instance to take themselves out of the spotlight.
For all we know, BC could have addressed all the issues that were raised following their own previous investigation 100%, but it doesn't matter because the media have already decided that they are guilty and need to be punished.
nb. Personally I believe that there have been past failings, but the fact that people like JRS, Dani King etc. have come forward to say that they have not experienced sexism and are/have been happy in the BC system leads me to believe that BC have gone someway to getting their house in order - just my opinion.
I expect the Report to be nothing less than damming. At the end of the day, rightly or wrongly cycling is still a little sport in the UK and therefore an easy target for the media who are to scared to go after the big-money sports for their kicks.0
