CMS hearings into the alleged culture of doping and bullying at British Cycling

Shadowrider

r0bh wrote:

AK_jnr wrote:

How much would he of been given for that little interview?

Sweet FA I expect; I don't think the BBC are allowed to pay for interviews (although I could be wrong on that).

They can pay, normally you negotiate an "appearance fee"

CuthbertC

Brailsford in 2011:

It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

Freeman in 2011:

I ask what he makes of the UCI’s new no-needles policy. “I think it’s fantastic,” he says. “It takes away a large window of opportunity for a lot of products. It means that there are no short cuts to proper rest and recovery. And it also removes that ladder of progression. If riders get used to vitamin injections as a matter of routine, it makes it easier to not question what’s in the syringe.”

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

tailwindhome

CuthbertC wrote:

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

There's a discussion to be had on just how important this is.

No one is going to be holding Coca Cola to account for their abject failure in teaching the world to sing, however if it was revealed that the Co-operative bank invested in the international arms trade it would be reasonable to have issue with it.

bobmcstuff

CuthbertC wrote:

Brailsford in 2011:

It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

Freeman in 2011:

I ask what he makes of the UCI’s new no-needles policy. “I think it’s fantastic,” he says. “It takes away a large window of opportunity for a lot of products. It means that there are no short cuts to proper rest and recovery. And it also removes that ladder of progression. If riders get used to vitamin injections as a matter of routine, it makes it easier to not question what’s in the syringe.”

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

Since by Edmonson's own admission he acted alone and Sky ditched him as soon as they found out (although they didn't report it, which I feel they should have - although it sounds like a difficult one if he was as bad as he's suggested), I don't really see the contradiction there.

ddraver

CuthbertC wrote:

Brailsford in 2011:

It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

Freeman in 2011:

I ask what he makes of the UCI’s new no-needles policy. “I think it’s fantastic,” he says. “It takes away a large window of opportunity for a lot of products. It means that there are no short cuts to proper rest and recovery. And it also removes that ladder of progression. If riders get used to vitamin injections as a matter of routine, it makes it easier to not question what’s in the syringe.”

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

You mean "Sky Rider failing to....Etc"

I know it's the internet and truth is barely relevant but personally i try to hold myself to some sort of honest standard

blazing_saddles

Scenario 1) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI at the time, the usual suspects would have been shouting about it being a cynical PR move, just smoke to cover up their doping.
Scenario 2) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI and said nothing, the usual suspects would now be shouting about the UCI being in Sky's pocket, helping to cover up their doping.
Scenario 3) Where we are now, with the usual suspects complaining that Sky did not did not go down the scenario 1 or 2 route.
No reference to the one, optimistic fact must be made.

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Scenario 1) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI at the time, the usual suspects would have been shouting about it being a cynical PR move, just smoke to cover up their doping.
Scenario 2) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI and said nothing, the usual suspects would now be shouting about the UCI being in Sky's pocket, helping to cover up their doping.
Scenario 3) Where we are now, with the usual suspects complaining that Sky did not did not go down the scenario 1 or 2 route.
No reference to the one, optimistic fact must be made.

You are very keen on telling people what they would have done as well as accusing them of answering questions you didn't ask.

Reasonable thing for them to have done would have been to report it and put a programme of support in place for the rider. If Edmondson is telling the truth they had a duty to report it and committed an offence by not doing so.

EnacheV

this Peters doc should be give a rise, awesome guy, also MP's should stay the fk out of the private owned stuff

better for MP's to check how the tax money are burned by the totally crap BBC entity. Salaries for idiots like Dan Roan who tweets lies like this:

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/842633039935102976
Dr Peters told me Sky didn't report Edmondson needle case due to concern over his mental state. Yet weeks later they publicly said this

5 months + is few (0-3 everywhere on earth) weeks. He finds a contradiction that isn't there. Here are tax payer money wasted, the place where MP's should use their time, not in fkin matter that they have no jurisdiction over.

CuthbertC

ddraver wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Brailsford in 2011:

It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

Freeman in 2011:

I ask what he makes of the UCI’s new no-needles policy. “I think it’s fantastic,” he says. “It takes away a large window of opportunity for a lot of products. It means that there are no short cuts to proper rest and recovery. And it also removes that ladder of progression. If riders get used to vitamin injections as a matter of routine, it makes it easier to not question what’s in the syringe.”

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

You mean "Sky Rider failing to....Etc"

I know it's the internet and truth is barely relevant but personally i try to hold myself to some sort of honest standard

No, I mean team management failing to practice what they preach. Have you even read the BBC article?

Team management (including Brailsford) failed to report the incident to the UCI. Failure to report meant that the UCI could not enforce the policy in this instance. This clearly contradicts their previous statements in relation to the policy.

No one should be surprised about this incident given that Sky have a history of failing to live up to their own PR. We're a zero tolerance team, but let's sign Rogers the Ferrari client, Cioni, Julich and Knaven regardless. We're a transparent team, unless we need to hide behind medical confidentiality to hinder a UKAD investigation. We care about the welfare of our riders so much that we promote tramadol use for the sake of performance enhancement.

CuthbertC

bobmcstuff wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Brailsford in 2011:

It’s like the no-needles policy. I think that is absolutely great but how’s it being enforced? I’ve spoken to Pat [McQuaid, UCI president] and I told him the UCI needs to get out here and enforce it. Where are they? They need to be on the buses. There are 20 teams, how hard can it be to have an observer on each bus? That’s your window of opportunity for recovery there, between the finish and the hotel, so get someone on the buses.

Freeman in 2011:

I ask what he makes of the UCI’s new no-needles policy. “I think it’s fantastic,” he says. “It takes away a large window of opportunity for a lot of products. It means that there are no short cuts to proper rest and recovery. And it also removes that ladder of progression. If riders get used to vitamin injections as a matter of routine, it makes it easier to not question what’s in the syringe.”

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

Since by Edmonson's own admission he acted alone and Sky ditched him as soon as they found out (although they didn't report it, which I feel they should have - although it sounds like a difficult one if he was as bad as he's suggested), I don't really see the contradiction there.

Ditching him doesn't constitute enforcement of the no needle policy.

blazing_saddles

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Scenario 1) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI at the time, the usual suspects would have been shouting about it being a cynical PR move, just smoke to cover up their doping.
Scenario 2) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI and said nothing, the usual suspects would now be shouting about the UCI being in Sky's pocket, helping to cover up their doping.
Scenario 3) Where we are now, with the usual suspects complaining that Sky did not did not go down the scenario 1 or 2 route.
No reference to the one, optimistic fact must be made.

You are very keen on telling people what they would have done as well as accusing them of answering questions you didn't ask.

I wasn't referring to you.
Currently no usual suspects here.

blazing_saddles

TailWindHome wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

There's a discussion to be had on just how important this is.

No one is going to be holding Coca Cola to account for their abject failure in teaching the world to sing, however if it was revealed that the Co-operative bank invested in the international arms trade it would be reasonable to have issue with it.

Looks like somebody has read your posts, TWH.

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/842633039935102976

Pross

Blazing Saddles wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

There's a discussion to be had on just how important this is.

No one is going to be holding Coca Cola to account for their abject failure in teaching the world to sing, however if it was revealed that the Co-operative bank invested in the international arms trade it would be reasonable to have issue with it.

Looks like somebody has read your posts, TWH.

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/842633039935102976

He's some investigative journalist - took him nearly 24 hours to find what people on here had already said. I guess it shows how little he knows or cares about cycling in the normal course of his career.

Richmond Racer 2

Pross wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Sky failing to practice what they preach for the umpteenth time. Shocker.

There's a discussion to be had on just how important this is.

No one is going to be holding Coca Cola to account for their abject failure in teaching the world to sing, however if it was revealed that the Co-operative bank invested in the international arms trade it would be reasonable to have issue with it.

Looks like somebody has read your posts, TWH.

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/842633039935102976

He's some investigative journalist - took him nearly 24 hours to find what people on here had already said. I guess it shows how little he knows or cares about cycling in the normal course of his career.

Have you ever seen DRONE (sic) and TWH in the same room? Hmm? I rest my case

Richmond Racer 2

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Scenario 1) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI at the time, the usual suspects would have been shouting about it being a cynical PR move, just smoke to cover up their doping.
Scenario 2) Had Sky reported JE to the UCI and said nothing, the usual suspects would now be shouting about the UCI being in Sky's pocket, helping to cover up their doping.
Scenario 3) Where we are now, with the usual suspects complaining that Sky did not did not go down the scenario 1 or 2 route.
No reference to the one, optimistic fact must be made.

Flags, banners and posters declaring JE's utter badness, Saddles. Nothing less.

I note with amusement many of the usual suspects out there who huffed and puffed that Sky had been mean to poor little Tiernan-Locke by standing him down when his ABP pinged.

blazing_saddles

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

CuthbertC

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

How so? Edmondson made a a voluntary confession. Roan didn't put a gun to his head.

blazing_saddles

CuthbertC wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

How so? Edmondson made a a voluntary confession. Roan didn't put a gun to his head.

He did? Do you have a link for that?

Regardless of how the story came out, I really hope that events don't end up driving Josh further into a dark place.

CuthbertC

Blazing Saddles wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

How so? Edmondson made a a voluntary confession. Roan didn't put a gun to his head.

He did? Do you have a link for that?

Regardless of how the story came out, I really hope that events don't end up driving Josh further into a dark place.

A BBC journalist coerced a rider into making a confession? Is that what you're saying?

Richmond Racer 2

Blazing Saddles wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

How so? Edmondson made a a voluntary confession. Roan didn't put a gun to his head.

He did? Do you have a link for that?

Regardless of how the story came out, I really hope that events don't end up driving Josh further into a dark place.

Not sure truthers are so worried about that, Saddles

rubertoe

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

How so? Edmondson made a a voluntary confession. Roan didn't put a gun to his head.

He did? Do you have a link for that?

Regardless of how the story came out, I really hope that events don't end up driving Josh further into a dark place.

Not sure truthers are so worried about that, Saddles

This is the only thing that matters, As someone who has suffered from depression, it is very easy to fall down very quickly and you can end up doing stupid and irrational things.

Hope Josh (and by his own admission) is getting all the help that he needs.

salsiccia1

rubertoe wrote:

This is the only thing that matters, As someone who has suffered from depression, it is very easy to fall down very quickly and you can end up doing stupid and irrational things.

Hope Josh (and by his own admission) is getting all the help that he needs.

Don't come on here with your concern and proper perspective, as if anyone involved are real people with real feelings who sometimes get things wrong, with different shades of light and dark to deal with. This whole thing is just a morality tale for spectators to pin their prejudices and petty agendas on, and apply black-and-white judgements to, and don't you forget it.

*waves fist*

Richmond Racer 2

Salsiccia1 wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

This is the only thing that matters, As someone who has suffered from depression, it is very easy to fall down very quickly and you can end up doing stupid and irrational things.

Hope Josh (and by his own admission) is getting all the help that he needs.

Don't come on here with your concern and proper perspective, as if anyone involved are real people with real feelings who sometimes get things wrong, with different shades of light and dark to deal with. This whole thing is just a morality tale for spectators to pin their prejudices and petty agendas on, and apply black-and-white judgements to, and don't you forget it.

*waves fist*

Gah!

Vino'sGhost

Salsiccia1 wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

This is the only thing that matters, As someone who has suffered from depression, it is very easy to fall down very quickly and you can end up doing stupid and irrational things.

Hope Josh (and by his own admission) is getting all the help that he needs.

Don't come on here with your concern and proper perspective, as if anyone involved are real people with real feelings who sometimes get things wrong, with different shades of light and dark to deal with. This whole thing is just a morality tale for spectators to pin their prejudices and petty agendas on, and apply black-and-white judgements to, and don't you forget it.

*waves fist*

rubertoe

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

This is the only thing that matters, As someone who has suffered from depression, it is very easy to fall down very quickly and you can end up doing stupid and irrational things.

Hope Josh (and by his own admission) is getting all the help that he needs.

Don't come on here with your concern and proper perspective, as if anyone involved are real people with real feelings who sometimes get things wrong, with different shades of light and dark to deal with. This whole thing is just a morality tale for spectators to pin their prejudices and petty agendas on, and apply black-and-white judgements to, and don't you forget it.

*waves fist*

Gah!

I forgot it was the interwebs.

The BBC article does make me laugh though..
"a cocktail of vitamins"..... Isn't that pimms.

blazing_saddles

Roan's latest effort:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39306190
His opening line being:-

A cycling anti-doping body (CADF) is investigating claims by British rider Josh Edmondson that Team Sky covered up his use of banned injections.

spam02

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Roan's latest effort:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39306190
His opening line being:-

A cycling anti-doping body (CADF) is investigating claims by British rider Josh Edmondson that Team Sky covered up his use of banned injections.

I see anti-doping crusader Dan is in Dublin to watch the Rugby. I wonder if he'll ask questions about the large amount of rugby players currently on the UKAD ADV banned list compared to the 5 cyclists.
- nope, I thought not.

Garry H

SPaM02 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Roan's latest effort:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39306190
His opening line being:-

A cycling anti-doping body (CADF) is investigating claims by British rider Josh Edmondson that Team Sky covered up his use of banned injections.

I see anti-doping crusader Dan is in Dublin to watch the Rugby. I wonder if he'll ask questions about the large amount of rugby players currently on the UKAD ADV banned list compared to the 5 cyclists.
- nope, I thought not.

He knows on which side his bread is buttered...

CuthbertC

CuthbertC wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

CuthbertC wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Regardless of Slater's slanted wording, it now looks as if Dan Roan has indeed thrown Josh under the press's Sky bus:-

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/8 ... 6870107137

How so? Edmondson made a a voluntary confession. Roan didn't put a gun to his head.

He did? Do you have a link for that?

Regardless of how the story came out, I really hope that events don't end up driving Josh further into a dark place.

A BBC journalist coerced a rider into making a confession? Is that what you're saying?

I'll take that as a no. Trying to cast Roan as a villain is a very poor attempt at deflecting attention away from Sky.

rick_chasey

Salsiccia1 wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

This is the only thing that matters, As someone who has suffered from depression, it is very easy to fall down very quickly and you can end up doing stupid and irrational things.

Hope Josh (and by his own admission) is getting all the help that he needs.

Don't come on here with your concern and proper perspective, as if anyone involved are real people with real feelings who sometimes get things wrong, with different shades of light and dark to deal with. This whole thing is just a morality tale for spectators to pin their prejudices and petty agendas on, and apply black-and-white judgements to, and don't you forget it.

*waves fist*

Quite.

Though I'd add that there is a large amount of humiliation avoidance. I think (and this is all relative, and not really in the context of a rider's depression) more fans were essentially let down or even humiliated by Armstrong's admission. We've all had the conversation for 10 years between 2002 and 2012 with some ardent fan where we went "chances are he did dope" "nuh uh, he's a cancer survivor. He does charity work. He's my idol".

Now of course you look a bit like a fool if you said that. So now there's a whole bunch who are desperate not to be fooled again, so call dope at everything just in case.

Some like to feel or hope that their humiliation wasn't unique. The glee which an (unsurprisingly) American forum has when they feel it's "Armstrong all over again with sky and Brits" is fairly strong.

There's also some evidence to suggest more broadly that humiliation is one of the triggers for troll like behaviour in people, so again, it's no surprise most of the pro race trolls are trolling about doping, and mainly about a team that in many ways does resemble US Postal (dominant, similar tactics, English speaking, new set of fans as a result of their success with little prior interest).

The thing is, if sky are caught doping, they think geezers like me will be humiliated like they were.

Only they're so hot for it, they can't see a more nuanced argument. They also can't see, because they haven't been watching for long enough, that for a lot of people, we can contextualise it, and have done already in the past, and move on.

So when (and they're mainly American) trolls come on here shouting "sky dope" until their keyboards groan under the pounding of the keyboard, they don't want people to really agree with them, unless it's to admit humiliation. They want the denial, because it validates their own previous mistake and offers them the chance to be the "I told you so" hero, and witness the humiliation of others.