Rio Olympics - track cycling

Richmond Racer 2

On the plus side there's one prat who's exposed himself

So silver lining and all that

Ah. Two.

The_Boy

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

On the plus side there's one prat who's exposed himself

The sexist culture is worse than we though

DeVlaeminck

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

as a neutral it seems that it's a non story with no current corroboration of the accusations of sexism from within the team.

The mentality of an athlete who has achieved success means they won't take failure well and there were news reports that she wanted a ride off to try and win her place back which says it all really.

Non story that she was told to go and have a baby ? I can't agree - wasn't going to continue the debate but there has been no denial from Sutton so we can assume that he did indeed say that - OK it may not be the biggest crime in the world but from someone in his position it's indicative of an outdated attitude towards female athletes. When you add in previous episodes with female cyclists such as Cooke and the stuff Pendleton wrote in her book (and stuff you hear on the grapevine from people who have worked in that environment) there is definitely a case for the culture of BC to be looked at more closely.

'There has been no denial from Sutton...'

Eh? Official Statement from BC published in immediate response to the Mail interview contains his denial. And media reports including the story in the Guardian - link provided by Rich several posts up - reiterate that denial

I don't know what was and wasn't said, but to keep on claiming that Sutton hasnt denied...why would you do that? anyone would think there's only one narrative you are interested in. But that can't be the case. Surely?

It's pretty clear to everyone apart from you apparently that what I mean is there has been no specific denial that he used the phrase attributed to him by Varnish. If he has denied it then please provide a link to it but if someone makes a specific allegation and you issue a vague response with no specific denial that normally means you are guilty as charged.

Not sure what you mean by one narrative I am interested in - I've formed a view based on what I've read and what I've been told - I have no interest financial or otherwise in thinking Sutton is unsuited to his role at BC but that is my opinion and I'm hardly alone in thinking that.

Pross

Surely his response is a cover all denial? If he came back and said 'I didn't make the baby comment' someone would be arguing he didn't deny saying anything else that is alleged.

DeVlaeminck

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

No_Ta_Doctor

DeVlaeminck wrote:

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

The_Boy

I don't see how all the comments from BC - or anyone related to bc - can be seen as anything but a full denial of all accusations made by the riders.

DeVlaeminck

No tA Doctor wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

So you think Varnish has made up the bit about being told to have a baby ?

No_Ta_Doctor

DeVlaeminck wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

You may be right but I suspect you are wrong.

So you think Varnish has made up the bit about being told to have a baby ?

How the f*** should I know?

I do know that he's denied he said it.

DeVlaeminck

Link ?

awavey

Salsiccia1 wrote:

A cynic may say she is still hoping to get selected for the Rio road race, so might want to stay onside... :twisted:

which changing the subject as I dont think anyone is going to radically change their mind on Jess's issues no matter how many press releases or articles or books there are, though FWIW I dont have any issue with cutting people off the team if they dont make the grade, and if you are telling me the team BC pick are going "to medal" in all 10 track cycling events they enter, as thats performance bar thats been set, then I very much look forward to watching and supporting TeamGB achieve that in Rio

but the Rio road race, at the moment the men get 5 rider spots and the women have a maximum of 4 rider spots...not going to comment on that ...but for the women its based on the UCI World Tour rankings for which the cut off is May 31st, so the Womens Tour in the UK wont count sadly and basically there are only 2 races left, 1 of which probably wont see many if any GB riders compete in and thus score points in to push up the rankings further.

all of which means there are probably realistically only 3 spots (as thats where GB is currently ranked) available on the Womens team for the road race, we know Lizzie should be one, but picking the other two is going to challenge the selectors

disgruntledgoat

An extremely brief piece on CN says Sutton suspended for remarks about Paralympians. "Gimps and Wobblies" was the quote.

All in I'd say this is not exactly where BC want to be spending their efforts 4 months out from the Olympics. A mess.

DeadCalm

What a swell guy!

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/a ... ns-remarks

NervexProf

update: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36147120

RoadPainter

That escalated.

daniel_b

RoadPainter wrote:

That escalated.

Didn't it just.

Wonder if they could get Boardman back and interested, even on a temporary basis - he no longer owns his own bike company.

top_bhoy

The motives of Jess Varnish could be swept away; less so those of Darren Kenny.

Based on the latest allegations, Sutton is toast - the only question remaining is it before Rio or after.

secretsam

DeadCalm wrote:

What a swell guy!

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/a ... ns-remarks

I remember an interview with him when he was still a pro, he came across as a man who calls a spade "a f***ing spade" :shock:

RichN95.

So who is likely to replace him? (even if he's innocent this won't be fixed any time soon)

blazing_saddles

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Link ?

I realise that some may feel this to be redundant now, but he does categorically deny the allegations here:-

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport ... s_cjd=true

Of course, there's the flipping pay wall thingy again. I have pinched a few select snippets and posted them in a less "visible" place.

I urge anyone with access to read and scrutinise the piece, since it has a whole lot to say and sheds much light in a number of areas.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

So who is likely to replace him? (even if he's innocent this won't be fixed any time soon)

Rope Brailsford back in?

slowbike

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So who is likely to replace him? (even if he's innocent this won't be fixed any time soon)

Rope Brailsford back in?

If he was in charge when Sutton first made the aledged comments then that's not appropriate ...

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Link ?

I realise that some may feel this to be redundant now, but he does categorically deny the allegations here:-

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport ... s_cjd=true

Of course, there's the flipping pay wall thingy again. I have pinched a few select snippets and posted them in a less "visible" place.

I urge anyone with access to read and scrutinise the piece, since it has a whole lot to say and sheds much light in a number of areas.

Yes seen that this morning in the bit about his comments about the paralympians but thanks.

top_bhoy

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So who is likely to replace him? (even if he's innocent this won't be fixed any time soon)

Rope Brailsford back in?

Clive Woodward?

His name gets mentioned as a high performance coach/mentor for just about every other sport. It would be a real shame if cycling was to miss out being associated.

NervexProf

A left field suggestion for a replacement: Sir Chris Hoy ?

r0bh

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Of course, there's the flipping pay wall thingy again. I have pinched a few select snippets and posted them in a less "visible" place.

??? that's too cryptic for me!

daniel_b

NervexProf wrote:

A left field suggestion for a replacement: Sir Chris Hoy ?

I like that!

Except he is busy racing cars now, Le Mans etc I think.

RichN95.

NervexProf wrote:

A left field suggestion for a replacement: Sir Chris Hoy ?

I would have thought that would be a pretty mainstream choice. But he's committed to racing Le Mans.

RichN95.

r0bh wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Of course, there's the flipping pay wall thingy again. I have pinched a few select snippets and posted them in a less "visible" place.

??? that's too cryptic for me!

Me too.

gweeds

The whole article on The Times:

I never told Varnish to go have a baby, says suspended GB cycling chief Sutton
British cycling chief Shane Sutton, who was suspended last night, tells Alyson Rudd about sexism allegations

exclusive
Alyson Rudd
April 27 2016, 12:01am,
The Times

Sutton denies all the charges that have been levelled at him
BRADLEY ORMESHER FOR THE TIMES
Shane Sutton, who was suspended by British Cycling last night after fresh claims of discrimination, says that he is hurt and perplexed by the storm surrounding him. The row began when he was accused of sexism, of telling a cyclist “to move on and get on with having a baby”. Last night there were further allegations that he had called para-cyclists “gimps” and “wobblies”.

Darren Kenny, one of Britain’s most decorated para-cyclists told the Daily Mail: “The term used to refer to us was generally ‘gimps’ with another word in front of that. I don’t think we were considered to be elite athletes in all honesty by certain people.”

Sutton completely denies the allegations, but will be suspended while an internal investigation is carried out.

British Cycling’s technical director wants to put the record straight. He does it with bluntness. After a long, heartfelt conversation at the National Cycling Centre in Manchester yesterday, before the latest allegations that led to his suspension, he sighs and sums up what happened when Jess Varnish, whose contract with British Cycling was not renewed, vented her anger.

“Someone who wasn’t up to the job has left the programme and should embrace my comments,” he said. “Jess was not one of the greats. It’s sad she’s come out and said the things she said.”

Did he tell Varnish to have a baby?

“One hundred per cent no.”

Did he say something that could be misconstrued that way?

“No, there was never any talk of babies. I don’t know where that’s come from.”

Varnish also claimed that she was told her “ass” was too big.


“I have never used the terminology, ‘You’ve got a fat arse.’ I’m just really upset she would say that,” Sutton says.

In fact, Sutton is very fond of Varnish. It always comes back to the statistics. He produces a spreadsheet of her results on the track. There are some relatively impressive timings at altitude that have to be discounted, otherwise the sheet shows a cyclist slowly losing ground since 2012.

“Jess is a wonderful girl, a beautiful person, I couldn’t ask for any more from her on the programme. Unfortunately everything comes to an end. And unfortunately her time on the programme is done,” he says. “She’s been a model professional, Jess worked hard. Decisions are not made lightly. We’ve made decisions a lot bigger. I’ve had to sit in that back office pre-London Olympics and tell Sir Chris [Hoy] that Jason Kenny is a quicker bike rider and will be riding the sprint, ‘unfortunately you haven’t got the place’. We don’t do it without the evidence.”

Varnish’s accusations run deeper than two sexist comments. She has spoken of not being given the courtesy of a meeting to explain why she was dropped but Sutton disputes this and rearranges the furniture in his office to illustrate the meeting that he says did take place and lasted one hour and 15 minutes. He also wants to make it clear that he did not break the news of her being ousted. He says Iain Dyer, the Great Britain head coach, revealed the decision when pressed over the phone by Varnish. The investigation and suspension means that Sutton is not allowed to meet Varnish for the coffee that he says she has requested, but he does want to set out his side of the story.

“Actually I’m embracing the opportunity to sit in front of the panel and give my view because I don’t think I’ve been heard properly from day one of this,” he says. “I’ve had great support from everybody here but at the end of the day it’s an allegation.”

I have never used the terminology, ‘You’ve got a fat arse.’ I’m just really upset she would say that
It is an allegation serious enough to put his job in jeopardy but he says that, informally, Ian Drake, his chief executive, has been supportive.

Of all the messages of support, the one he values most came from Varnish’s former sprint team-mates. Katy Marchant, Becky James and Vicky Williamson sent a joint text message, knowing Sutton’s passion for statistics, stating: “Just want you to know we are 100 per cent behind you.”

Upon their arrival at the track centre yesterday, James and Marchant came to knock on his door and say hello. Sutton looked a little abashed. The riders do not ever report to his office for duty. It was their way of letting him know they back him.

The timing of the whole furore is, though, dreadful. Sutton should be concentrating only on the riders likely to be picked for the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro. He should be spending what free time he does have with Abbie, whom he married last August and who is expecting their first baby a week before the Olympics begin. In fact, as the sexism row escalated, he was by her side in hospital for some scans. His children from a previous relationship have been phoning him, worried about what is being said about their father.

The row has seen comment from former riders claiming that British Cycling operates in a culture of sexism. Victoria Pendleton has said that she believes the claims made by Varnish, with whom she competed at London 2012, and said that she felt miserable when part of the organisation. Again, Sutton is baffled.

“I find it astonishing Vicky would wade in, given that on the journey [preparing for] Beijing, I’m up until 3 o’ clock in the morning decorating her house in Wilmslow,” he says.


“The number of times I’ve held her in my arms in the track centre when she has capitulated. I was very supportive of her. I’m a bit hurt by the allegations given my relationship with her over the years.”

There have been more general accusations levelled this week that British Cycling is dominated at managerial level by men, but Sutton argues that this has been changing of late, that he has helped to appoint women as men have left their roles, with the most high- profile example being that of Ruth Anderson, who took over from Steve Peters, the renowned psychologist.

“Filling Doc Peters’ shoes was never going to be easy,” he says. Sutton frowns at the notion of positive discrimination. “She was best person for the job.”

Inevitably we return to the topic of Varnish and of how her version and his version of events differ so dramatically.

Sutton explains that after a body scan, Varnish did express concern that she was getting mixed messages about her weight. “That’s where the whole weight thing has come from but nobody’s ever said, ‘Jess, you’ve got a fat backside’ or anything,” he says.

As for her accusations that she was not given the best technical support, Sutton reveals that she was given full Olympic kit for the recent World Championships, not a privilege afforded to many in the GB team that week.

Varnish has also said that she deserves to be in a race-off with Marchant for an Olympic place, but Sutton says that this is illogical.

‘I find it astonishing Vicky would wade in, given that... I’m up until 3 o’ clock in the morning decorating her house in Wilmslow’
“The selection criteria [are] not about a race-off,” he says. “We’ve got to look at Olympic medals. Jess was devoted to her job, but unfortunately where her times were going backwards the rest of the world was progressing, so the gap was growing and growing.”

Sutton has delivered bad news to riders so often that he knows the emotional process they go through, that they suffer “a trio of emotions”.

“The first thing thing is we get into a very emotional state and that might put you in tears and then go though a period of getting angry, and the last phase is, ‘What can I get out of it?’ ”

Interestingly, Sutton is not trying to be on best behaviour for this interview. He still refers to “Sheilas”. He is unapologetic about his Aussie brashness.

He says he is not worried about how to address the women in the building after the negative publicity because the support has been overwhelming. And he will not change the way he talks to women “because that would not be giving equality. They are athletes on the GB squad regardless of gender”.

He does have one overriding concern, though. “I fear for the way I’m being perceived within my job. Regardless of anything, this is an evidence-based programme. It’s like being a football manager; you are judged on results. I’m fearful that I’ll be perceived for what I’m not.”

I ask Abbie to sum up her husband in five words. “Passionate, dedicated, loyal, trustworthy and overactive,” she says. He is also, evidently, despite that brashness, not immune to being hurt.