Rio Olympics - track cycling

daniel_b

Blazing Saddles wrote:

It's going to rear it's ugly head again at some point, so I might as well post this.
Sir Dave B called for Sutton's reinstatement, two days ago and as I said, the riders to speak now that Rio is over.

Sir Wiggo 2 days ago:-
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... sh-cycling

Early today:-
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... sh-cycling

This time, at least one of us knows what the IC is going to hear. :P

Intriguing, he has a lot of support clearly.

I was assuming the Aussies were going to snap him up to work with, or replace his bro.

Richmond Racer 2

Well colour me surprised

And as Blazing said

Nah, I can't see him going to Oz. For starters he's made his life here for, what, more than 35 years. He's got kids here, his second wife is about to have their first child, and he is EXTREMELY loyal to the British set-up - riders, coaches, the whole kahuna

If he doesn't go back to BC, although track and road squads will be queuing up for his services, I suspect he will work (this time full-time) with Team Sky. I also look forward to the book he will be writing. As has been pointed out elsewhere, he has an elephantine memory, and no score need go unsettled :-)

jscl

Personally, I think Shane's return would be difficult. I know that Brad (via Cath & VP) has apologised to a few people following the article a few days ago as they used some selective quotes (to be expected) and that's not how he intended.

I like Shane and have always 'got' his personality, but many haven't and we end up in situations like the one we have. But ultimately, I think it's impossible to satisfy the majority on this one. Darren talking about him and others being referred to as 'wobblies' is a bit of an iffy one, because he had a photo on FB that's now been removed of him wearing a t-shirt saying 'Who want's to give a wobbly a blowie?'.

There's also some riders that think Iain needs to go too, but I certainly don't agree with that. It's a cut-throat game and people can easily see their arses when things don't go their way. I'm sure it'll all sort itself out, but I really can't see Shane's return to BC after all of this, which in some ways is a real shame. Him going to work with Dave B full-time at TS I can see, however.

There are definitely issues and several riders have really been failed by the system when others have been kept because SS has protected them. I can think of one or two situations where you have a team of coaches talking of dropping a rider, but Shane has protected them. But it's all being investigated and we shall see in the not too distant future.

DeVlaeminck

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

Richmond Racer 2

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

I rather think it is down to the IC to conclude how he has 'acted', and whether fittingly or otherwise, once they have heard everyone out

jscl

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

I rather think it is down to the IC to conclude how he has 'acted', and whether fittingly or otherwise, once they have heard everyone out

Exactly.

DeVlaeminck

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

I rather think it is down to the IC to conclude how he has 'acted', and whether fittingly or otherwise, once they have heard everyone out

Well even from what appears to be in the public domain and uncontested I would have thought the IC would have some reservations about how he acted given the role he was in. Given the amount of bad publicity the issue generated this year I suspect that would make it difficult to return to a leadership role within British Cycling - in simple terms it wouldn't look very good.

jscl

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

I rather think it is down to the IC to conclude how he has 'acted', and whether fittingly or otherwise, once they have heard everyone out

Well even from what appears to be in the public domain and uncontested I would have thought the IC would have some reservations about how he acted given the role he was in. Given the amount of bad publicity the issue generated this year I suspect that would make it difficult to return to a leadership role within British Cycling - in simple terms it wouldn't look very good.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I can also say with certainty that some matters were somewhat compounded by the press.

Richmond Racer 2

JSCL wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

I rather think it is down to the IC to conclude how he has 'acted', and whether fittingly or otherwise, once they have heard everyone out

Exactly.

The IC responsible for looking into the sexism claim being all-women panel, is a good stroke also

blazing_saddles

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with you, even from the outside it doesn't look likely SS will come back. However much he may be great at his job when you are working for the governing body of a sport spending public money you can't act in the way he has.

I rather think it is down to the IC to conclude how he has 'acted', and whether fittingly or otherwise, once they have heard everyone out

Well even from what appears to be in the public domain and uncontested I would have thought the IC would have some reservations about how he acted given the role he was in. Given the amount of bad publicity the issue generated this year I suspect that would make it difficult to return to a leadership role within British Cycling - in simple terms it wouldn't look very good.

I think you are missing the point.
Much of what is uncontested in the public domain is what will be contested in the IC.
Which also brings into question just who exactly generated the bad publicity.

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I think you are missing the point.
Much of what is uncontested in the public domain is what will be contested in the IC.
Which also brings into question just who exactly generated the bad publicity.

"Much" isn't all though is it. Is it contested that he called paralympians "wobblies" for example. Did the way he talked about Pendleton being like a daughter to him and him putting his arms around her really come across as the way someone in his position should be talking about a star athlete - would he talk the same about a man ?

'I find it astonishing Vicky would wade in, given that on the journey [preparing for] Beijing, I’m up until 3 o'clock in the morning decorating her house in Wilmslow.
'The number of times I’ve held her in my arms in the track centre when she has capitulated. I was very supportive of her.


For right or wrong the media hung him out to dry and he now carries that baggage. Do BC want to welcome him back into a leadership role when he brings that baggage with him - what happens if he says something else that the media can get hold of - the man that British Cycling welcomed back to the fold.

My point is simply that - politically I think it unlikely they will take him back in a role which will expose the organisation to the kind of publicity they had earlier this year. For them to do so I think the IC would have to completely exonerate him which I just find unlikely given what is uncontested. It's an opinion though I could be wrong, BC may show more loyalty towards him or may think he is worth the risk.

TheBigBean

Presumably there is nothing to stop the athletes hiring him as a coach?

PuttyKnees

It's no surprise that those athletes are supportive of SS considering their success and being on record as him being a mentor, but it's how he deals with people who don't buy into his methods that's the issue here surely? Apart from the issues around sexism etc (which I have no idea whether is true or not), SS was on record as saying that athletes must take responsibility when talking about JV. But since he was the coach who prescribed her training, or at the least set up the framework, shouldn't he, as her coach, bear some of the responsibility for her failure?

top_bhoy

DeVlaeminck wrote:

"Much" isn't all though is it. Is it contested that he called paralympians "wobblies" for example. Did the way he talked about Pendleton being like a daughter to him and him putting his arms around her really come across as the way someone in his position should be talking about a star athlete - would he talk the same about a man ?

'I find it astonishing Vicky would wade in, given that on the journey [preparing for] Beijing, I’m up until 3 o'clock in the morning decorating her house in Wilmslow.
'The number of times I’ve held her in my arms in the track centre when she has capitulated. I was very supportive of her.

Whatever the rights and wrong of SS behaviour, the relationship between an elite athlete and a coach is often much more personal. Anna Meares after her final race in Rio specifically thanked her coach Gary West for helping her through a tough period in her life when she was emotionally broken and exhausted. Such is the role of a coach at the top level. I would be confident in it being true that male athletes have been treated in a similar manner by their coaches. It just doesn't make the news every day.

Pross

I've just mentioned on the BMX thread that Phillips was asked in an interview if he'd considered track replied he tried it and didn't enjoy it as much but also that the track squad is less harmonious.

webboo

Pross wrote:

I've just mentioned on the BMX thread that Phillips was asked in an interview if he'd considered track replied he tried it and didn't enjoy it as much but also that the track squad is less harmonious.

They might expect him to finish a race.

RichN95.

Webboo wrote:

Pross wrote:

I've just mentioned on the BMX thread that Phillips was asked in an interview if he'd considered track replied he tried it and didn't enjoy it as much but also that the track squad is less harmonious.

They might expect him to finish a race.

Phil Hindes never does.

webboo

RichN95 wrote:

Webboo wrote:

Pross wrote:

I've just mentioned on the BMX thread that Phillips was asked in an interview if he'd considered track replied he tried it and didn't enjoy it as much but also that the track squad is less harmonious.

They might expect him to finish a race.

Phil Hindes never does.

When he's not finishing he is usually still on his bike.

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Webboo wrote:

Pross wrote:

I've just mentioned on the BMX thread that Phillips was asked in an interview if he'd considered track replied he tried it and didn't enjoy it as much but also that the track squad is less harmonious.

They might expect him to finish a race.

Phil Hindes never does.

He should only get a third of a medal!

No_Ta_Doctor

Like others, I can't see Sutton coming back - whichever way the enquiry goes. Even if he's completely exonerated, the fact is that mud sticks, and that makes him a weak spot in preparation for the next OL. It's possible they might bring him back in some other role, with less responsibility (possibly in as a consultant?), as his talent is undeniable.

Sky would appear to be a good fit, though part of me wonders whether hiring one of Brad's closest confidants would fit with Froome...

tailwindhome

No tA Doctor wrote:

Like others, I can't see Sutton coming back - whichever way the enquiry goes. Even if he's completely exonerated, the fact is that mud sticks, and that makes him a weak spot in preparation for the next OL. It's possible they might bring him back in some other role, with less responsibility (possibly in as a consultant?), as his talent is undeniable.

Sky would appear to be a good fit, though part of me wonders whether hiring one of Brad's closest confidants would fit with Froome...

Team Wiggins?

blazing_saddles

Clancy and Doull join the growing number of GB track stars demanding the return of Shane Sutton:-

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rio-m ... -w2fznbjfs

Sutton’s return to the world’s most successful Olympic cycling squad cannot come soon enough for the team returning from Rio with their haul of 11 medals, including six golds. Wiggins had led the call for Sutton to return and he was backed up by his team pursuit colleagues, who recognised Sutton’s abrasive manner but said that the results in Rio spoke volumes for his ability as technical director.

“Shane laid the foundations for what happened in Rio,” Clancy said. “Should Shane be recognised for what happened in Rio? For sure, yes. It is right that this inquiry into sexism and other claims are sorted out. I have had my own issues with Shane and I suppose you love him or you hate him.”

However, Clancy, the unsung heart of the team pursuit squad and now a three-times gold medallist in the event, saw the other side of Sutton when he suffered a back injury that could have left him with a permanently paralysed leg.

Clancy suffered a prolapsed disc last November picking up a heavy bag and found himself facing serious surgery and the end of a distinguished career. “I couldn’t bend so I was bolt upright,” Clancy said. “I went out one night with the boys but couldn’t sit at a restaurant table so I had to kneel.”

The first text after his operation came from Sutton and then the technical director rallied an army of physios and doctors for Clancy’s rehabilitation. After three months’ recovery, Sutton put Clancy in the team pursuit at the World Championships, keeping faith in a rider who was still working on his fitness. “Maybe it was too soon but Shane wanted me to be part of it to be ready for the Olympics,” Clancy added.