Rio Olympics - track cycling

bobmcstuff

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/a ... ave-a-baby

Sounds a nice chap

blazing_saddles

bobmcstuff wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/23/jess-varnish-british-cyling-shane-sutton-go-and-have-a-baby

Sounds a nice chap

The original interview is in their Daily Mail link.
Worth reading as it contains some other stuff, to which all I can add is that it gets a "no comment", from me here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sports ... m-big.html

daniel_b

Blazing Saddles wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/23/jess-varnish-british-cyling-shane-sutton-go-and-have-a-baby

Sounds a nice chap

The original interview is in their Daily Mail link.
Worth reading as it contains some other stuff, to which all I can add is that it gets a "no comment", from me here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sports ... m-big.html

Blimey, that is all very disappointing :-(

I noticed it says she is off to Oz on Monday to continue training, is that in the hope she can make her way back in, or just to continue competition in the Revolution series, or elsewhere abroad?
This does seem very unjust, followed Jess's career for several years now, and was convinced she would be at the next two Olympics.

disgruntledgoat

Isn't it amazing that BC manages to get itself defamed by some unbalanced harpy with an axe to grind every couple of years? How unlucky can one World Class Performance Plan be?

rick_chasey

I'd have thought this stuff goes on all the time in Olympic teams, no?

It's just whether it makes the papers or not..

Richmond Racer 2

So lemme get this right

She talks to the Daily Mail, makes these claims, and then jets off to Oz on Mon

Okkkkaaaayyyy


I don't know whether she's telling the truth or no, but my radar is twitching

disgruntledgoat

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd have thought this stuff goes on all the time in Olympic teams, no?

It's just whether it makes the papers or not..

I appreciate that a world class coach's job isn't to be the entertainments officer on the Good Ship Lollipop... However there has to be a line of professionalism, surely. The idea that a woman who is good at cycling is only good for that and then making babies is pretty offensive and just underlines what I've heard about people (most a lot younger than Varnish) being thrown on the scrapheap with no preparation for life outside the bubble by BC.

The holding on to her data just seems spiteful and if Sutton can dish it out, he should be prepared to cop some back.

I know a couple of GB's junior track riders and the atmosphere in their camp seems completely at odds with how I'd expect kids to be treated. I know that physically they know how to prepare athletes but in terms of managing people, it's almost as if they succeed in spite of their team.

rick_chasey

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd have thought this stuff goes on all the time in Olympic teams, no?

It's just whether it makes the papers or not..

I appreciate that a world class coach's job isn't to be the entertainments officer on the Good Ship Lollipop... However there has to be a line of professionalism, surely. The idea that a woman who is good at cycling is only good for that and then making babies is pretty offensive and just underlines what I've heard about people (most a lot younger than Varnish) being thrown on the scrapheap with no preparation for life outside the bubble by BC.

The holding on to her data just seems spiteful and if Sutton can dish it out, he should be prepared to cop some back.

I know a couple of GB's junior track riders and the atmosphere in their camp seems completely at odds with how I'd expect kids to be treated. I know that physically they know how to prepare athletes but in terms of managing people, it's almost as if they succeed in spite of their team.

If i'm honest, I haven't read or followed any of it.

Shane Sutton being a bit short through the corner and saying something offensive? No way.

Rider blaming coach for the reason they're not picked, referring to petty arguments? No way.

Sure, Shane's probably in the wrong from the scraps I can be bothered to read, but this story is as old as sport teams have existed.

Richmond Racer 2

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd have thought this stuff goes on all the time in Olympic teams, no?

It's just whether it makes the papers or not..

I appreciate that a world class coach's job isn't to be the entertainments officer on the Good Ship Lollipop... However there has to be a line of professionalism, surely. The idea that a woman who is good at cycling is only good for that and then making babies is pretty offensive and just underlines what I've heard about people (most a lot younger than Varnish) being thrown on the scrapheap with no preparation for life outside the bubble by BC.

The holding on to her data just seems spiteful and if Sutton can dish it out, he should be prepared to cop some back.

I know a couple of GB's junior track riders and the atmosphere in their camp seems completely at odds with how I'd expect kids to be treated. I know that physically they know how to prepare athletes but in terms of managing people, it's almost as if they succeed in spite of their team.

It's no different in the Aus set-up, or others like it , or in fact most Conti dev teams

As an aside, I believe Varnish has been studying physiology etc for some time, for a career beyond riding the track

disgruntledgoat

And I would agree. But, for me, the real story is the consistency with which women who come out the other side of BC, even successful ones, make claims of sexist remarks and attitudes and bullying by coaching staff. BC aren't new to coaching women, but they never seem to learn.

disgruntledgoat

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I'd have thought this stuff goes on all the time in Olympic teams, no?

It's just whether it makes the papers or not..

I appreciate that a world class coach's job isn't to be the entertainments officer on the Good Ship Lollipop... However there has to be a line of professionalism, surely. The idea that a woman who is good at cycling is only good for that and then making babies is pretty offensive and just underlines what I've heard about people (most a lot younger than Varnish) being thrown on the scrapheap with no preparation for life outside the bubble by BC.

The holding on to her data just seems spiteful and if Sutton can dish it out, he should be prepared to cop some back.

I know a couple of GB's junior track riders and the atmosphere in their camp seems completely at odds with how I'd expect kids to be treated. I know that physically they know how to prepare athletes but in terms of managing people, it's almost as if they succeed in spite of their team.

It's no different in the Aus set-up, or others like it , or in fact most Conti dev teams

As an aside, I believe Varnish has been studying physiology etc for some time, for a career beyond riding the track

Having witnessed the way the staff talk to each other in the Aussie women's set up (never mind their riders), I dont doubt it. But that doesn't make it right. By all means tell somebody they're lazy and weak (at least that's performance related) but I think the baby remark is beyond the pale and if you're working with youngsters the body image thing is something you need to be sensitive to also. These are people first and cyclists second (not specifically Varnish here)

Richmond Racer 2

Well, in your previous post you were making specific reference to the juniors - which is why I replied on that point

disgruntledgoat

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Well, in your previous post you were making specific reference to the juniors - which is why I replied on that point

I think we're agreeing here... I don't think BC are uniquely bad, but I think we should demand from organisations acting in loco parentis especially ones that (the UK based among you) are paid for by Joe Public.

Incidentally, I heard some stories last weekend about the Belgian junior track set up that were even worse, if a little dated.

DeVlaeminck

Absolutely, if this was the first time these kind of accusations had been levelled at Sutton you could perhaps ask if it were sour grapes but it's happened several times before. It's one of the things that turns me off the whole BC track thing - I don't really care if they win gold medals if they do so by being such a bunch of *******.

blazing_saddles

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Absolutely, if this was the first time these kind of accusations had been levelled at Sutton you could perhaps ask if it were sour grapes but it's happened several times before. It's one of the things that turns me off the whole BC track thing - I don't really care if they win gold medals if they do so by being such a bunch of *******.

Thanks for that.
It's worth remembering that ultimately it's the riders, not the coaches who win the medals.

Richmond Racer 2

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Absolutely, if this was the first time these kind of accusations had been levelled at Sutton you could perhaps ask if it were sour grapes but it's happened several times before. It's one of the things that turns me off the whole BC track thing - I don't really care if they win gold medals if they do so by being such a bunch of *******.

Thanks for that.
It's worth remembering that ultimately it's the riders, not the coaches who win the medals.

*applause*

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Absolutely, if this was the first time these kind of accusations had been levelled at Sutton you could perhaps ask if it were sour grapes but it's happened several times before. It's one of the things that turns me off the whole BC track thing - I don't really care if they win gold medals if they do so by being such a bunch of *******.

Thanks for that.
It's worth remembering that ultimately it's the riders, not the coaches who win the medals.

Yes my point is about the set up as a whole rather than the riders. There is more to sport than achieving success, maybe that view is old fashioned but there you go.

top_bhoy

Bullying and sexist workplace behaviour is no more acceptable coming from a sports coach than it would be if it were to be delivered by any other member of the general workforce. Context and circumstance of the allegations are important and if proven, Sutton's position is untenable and leaves GB Cycling with a huge dilemma just prior to Rio.

my_grandadʹs_bike

^^^ this with knobs on.

The man sounds like a right co*k. Being a bully is not the only way to achieve success - you only have to look at the likes of Claudio Ranieri or Manuel Pelligrini in football to see that.

Richmond Racer 2

*bites tongue*

Richmond Racer 2

Dupe

blazing_saddles

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

*bites tongue*

You know what they say about a problem shared.
Frustratin' innit?

I'm not sure whether folks are referring to alleged sexist remarks as bullying, or a just not reading the article correctly. :?

my_grandadʹs_bike

Probably from not reading the article correctly :? And also from a position of not being "in the know" - just commenting on how he comes across from the little I've read about him.

You come across people like Shane Sutton in all walks of life and I still maintain they are bullies however this behaviour manifests itself ( demeaning sexist comments, getting rid of people who dare to challenge or criticise etc.)

He still sounds like a co*k - I could very well be wrong and he's a damm nice guy ( chuffing doubt it )

Richmond Racer 2

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

*bites tongue*

You know what they say about a problem shared.
Frustratin' innint?

I'm not sure whether folks are referring to alleged sexist remarks as bullying, or a just not reading the article correctly. :?

Yeppa. Frustrating as.

DeVlaeminck

If there is something to say just say it !

salsiccia1

So, RR and Blazing, are the comments about Sutton being a knob unfair? You don't have to give evidence, but based on the insider info you have is his approach acceptable? And do you think the 'go have a baby' comment is likely to be accurate?

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

*bites tongue*

You know what they say about a problem shared.
Frustratin' innit?

I'm not sure whether folks are referring to alleged sexist remarks as bullying, or a just not reading the article correctly. :?

You may may bite your tongue, but I see someone you may know has stuck up for Sutton

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/a ... llegations

blazing_saddles

Salsiccia1 wrote:

So, RR and Blazing, are the comments about Sutton being a knob unfair? You don't have to give evidence, but based on the insider info you have is his approach acceptable? And do you think the 'go have a baby' comment is likely to be accurate?

Have a read of that Guardian link that Rich has posted.
I was going to respond in pretty much the same way as Dave.
Not in terms of our experience. Quite the opposite.
I'm not going to speculate whether or not the baby comment could have been said.
I don't know would be my honest answer.

salsiccia1

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

So, RR and Blazing, are the comments about Sutton being a knob unfair? You don't have to give evidence, but based on the insider info you have is his approach acceptable? And do you think the 'go have a baby' comment is likely to be accurate?

Have a read of that Guardian link that Rich has posted.
I was going to respond in pretty much the same way as Dave.
Not in terms of our experience. Quite the opposite.
I'm not going to speculate whether or not the baby comment could have been said.
I don't know would be my honest answer.

Fair enough, thanks for the response.

confused@BR

I have a copy of Nicole Cooke's autobiography The Breakaway on my Kindle. I haven't finished it as the litany of clashes with the 'blazers' becomes wearing (although not as wearing as it must have been for NC). I had rather hoped that those days had gone but when you hear about the above plus remembering what Victoria Pendleton had to tolerate, maybe not so much. As an aside, viewed from a distance and with absolutely no knowledge at all, I felt that JV had the 'sticky end' of the sympathy for the change-over disqualification. Plenty of comment about VP's loss but that was the only chance JV had of any medal.