Rio Olympics - track cycling

kleinstroker

Telling someone they have a fat arse is not sexist. Jess Varnish like a lot of women confuse things they do not like being said to them with sexism. Sexism by definition implies prejudice or discrimination against that person because of their sex. Telling someone they have a fat arse is mean but it cannot be sexist, she didn't lose her place on the womens cycling team to a man now did she, she lost it to a woman with a smaller arse.
If anything Sutton could be said to have been "fattist" if there is such a thing? But even being "fattist" in sport is fair if a persons physical size impedes their ability to perform.
It is very sad that there are a lot of people in life who do not get what they want often turn to accusing someone of being sexist, racist, etc etc, and even sadder is the fact that we as a society rather than point out their error seem to concur out of politeness

rick_chasey

It's the end of the quote that is the issue Klein; the bit you missed out.

spaceman147

Daz555 wrote:

We have no idea if the allegations are true but this cannot be good for Rio overall. It might help a few riders (Kenny for example who I think has had a few issues with Sutton's style) but others like Wiggo may suffer - Sutton has always known which buttons to press with Wiggo.

If they weren't true why resign? Surely this makes him look guilty no?

blazing_saddles

Geraint Thomas:-

OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM ME:
With regards to recent events I'd like to say that there is absolutely no place for inequality in sport, and the recent accusations made against British cycling need to be looked at and treated seriously.
However, I would like to talk about my personal experience and say that Shane is one of the main reasons I am where I am today. He has always wanted the best for British riders, and gone the extra mile for us. He's done more than most for British Cycling.
The inequity issues won't finish with Shane's resignation/investigation, there is a problem with inequality in cycling as a whole that needs to be addressed.

daniel_b

And it continues:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36157878

disgruntledgoat

Daniel B wrote:

And it continues:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36157878

That's pretty weak sauce.

r0bh

This is a bit worrying if true:

Brendan gallagher ‏@gallagherbren 1h1 hour ago

Hearing disturbing reports of big name women riders wanting to speak out in support of Shane Sutton being gagged.

disgruntledgoat

r0bh wrote:

This is a bit worrying if true:

Brendan gallagher ‏@gallagherbren 1h1 hour ago

Hearing disturbing reports of big name women riders wanting to speak out in support of Shane Sutton being gagged.

Then, fearless quester after truth that he is, he can tell us their story, surely.

nickice

PuttyKnees wrote:

it's the low level, 'girls / women are not capable to ride for as long,

Would that be considered a controversial statement looking at the bigger picture and not individual cases?

nickice

r0bh wrote:

This is a bit worrying if true:

Brendan gallagher ‏@gallagherbren 1h1 hour ago

Hearing disturbing reports of big name women riders wanting to speak out in support of Shane Sutton being gagged.

Maybe BC wanted rid of Shane Sutton, anyway.

nickice

kleinstroker wrote:

It is very sad that there are a lot of people in life who do not get what they want often turn to accusing someone of being sexist, racist, etc etc, and even sadder is the fact that we as a society rather than point out their error seem to concur out of politeness

I totally agree with this. However, I can't really defend the indefensible re; "gimps" comments. The best I could say would be that everybody can make off-colour remarks in private. He is alleged to have made these comments before he was technical director but still. BC knew what kind of guy it was and it's interesting it"s only a problem now.

RichN95.

r0bh wrote:

This is a bit worrying if true:

Brendan gallagher ‏@gallagherbren 1h1 hour ago

Hearing disturbing reports of big name women riders wanting to speak out in support of Shane Sutton being gagged.

They probably just want to keep them out of the row and focused on Rio. Come September though, I hope people get to tell their stories.

kleinstroker

Yes calling disabled people gimps in this day and age is pretty bad, but not worth resigning or getting sacked over IMO. It wasn't so long ago, disabled people were called far worse by a fair percentage of society, and on TV it was commonplace, and some people like Shane Sutton obviously are much slower to catch on to the change in society that has taken place.
I'm sure all of us of a certain age remember the Spastics Society shops in all of our towns, collecting for the charity of the same name, nowadays that would seem abhorrent to a lot of people who would no doubt be outraged on Twitter if it were around.

Bo Duke

Things get said, always have and always will do, however journalists lack all discretion these days for a cheap story.

The guy could have ignored it, called him a nutter and walked.

No... 3 months before the Olympics he's goes for blood. Little, little England.

disgruntledgoat

Bo Duke wrote:

Things get said, always have and always will do, however journalists lack all discretion these days for a cheap story.

The guy could have ignored it, called him a nutter and walked.

No... 3 months before the Olympics he's goes for blood. Little, little England.

Really? So you can't see any public interest angle at all in this?

PuttyKnees

nickice wrote:

PuttyKnees wrote:

it's the low level, 'girls / women are not capable to ride for as long,

Would that be considered a controversial statement looking at the bigger picture and not individual cases?

Are you saying that women can't ride as long as men? There's no physiological evidence of that. If the argument is that length is reduced (in road/MTB/CX) to enable greater competition, then that would only be satisfactory if there was a strategy of increasing participation with a goal for parity in X many years, but there isn't. In track there's no satisfactory argument at all.

re: level 4 coaching quals. I don't think there's any requirement for level 4 or even level 3.

DeVlaeminck

r0bh wrote:

This is a bit worrying if true:

Brendan gallagher ‏@gallagherbren 1h1 hour ago

Hearing disturbing reports of big name women riders wanting to speak out in support of Shane Sutton being gagged.

The disappointing thing is that the culture there is such that people on either side of this debate might feel unable to say what they think without being sanctioned.

nickice

PuttyKnees wrote:

nickice wrote:

PuttyKnees wrote:

it's the low level, 'girls / women are not capable to ride for as long,

Would that be considered a controversial statement looking at the bigger picture and not individual cases?

Are you saying that women can't ride as long as men? There's no physiological evidence of that. If the argument is that length is reduced (in road/MTB/CX) to enable greater competition, then that would only be satisfactory if there was a strategy of increasing participation with a goal for parity in X many years, but there isn't. In track there's no satisfactory argument at all.

re: level 4 coaching quals. I don't think there's any requirement for level 4 or even level 3.

No, I don't. I misread it as 'ride as hard and long'. Sorry!

nickice

kleinstroker wrote:

Yes calling disabled people gimps in this day and age is pretty bad, but not worth resigning or getting sacked over IMO. It wasn't so long ago, disabled people were called far worse by a fair percentage of society, and on TV it was commonplace, and some people like Shane Sutton obviously are much slower to catch on to the change in society that has taken place.
I'm sure all of us of a certain age remember the Spastics Society shops in all of our towns, collecting for the charity of the same name, nowadays that would seem abhorrent to a lot of people who would no doubt be outraged on Twitter if it were around.

I can't help think that if someone had had a quiet word with Shane Sutton (wouldn't that be Dave Brailsford's job at the time?) and said that these comments were unacceptable these days then it could have been nipped in the bud. I can't help but feel like a lot of this is a result of personal grudges against him.

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

r0bh wrote:

This is a bit worrying if true:

Brendan gallagher ‏@gallagherbren 1h1 hour ago

Hearing disturbing reports of big name women riders wanting to speak out in support of Shane Sutton being gagged.

They probably just want to keep them out of the row and focused on Rio. Come September though, I hope people get to tell their stories.

This was certainly the case with yesterday's kit launch.

darren555

kleinstroker wrote:

Yes calling disabled people gimps in this day and age is pretty bad, but not worth resigning or getting sacked over IMO. It wasn't so long ago, disabled people were called far worse by a fair percentage of society, and on TV it was commonplace, and some people like Shane Sutton obviously are much slower to catch on to the change in society that has taken place.
I'm sure all of us of a certain age remember the Spastics Society shops in all of our towns, collecting for the charity of the same name, nowadays that would seem abhorrent to a lot of people who would no doubt be outraged on Twitter if it were around.

I think you are doing the Spastics Society (now called Scope) a disservice there. It was a purely innocent name until a generation of children (mine!) adopted it as an insult after Joey Deacon appeared on Blue Peter.

kleinstroker

Darren555 wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Yes calling disabled people gimps in this day and age is pretty bad, but not worth resigning or getting sacked over IMO. It wasn't so long ago, disabled people were called far worse by a fair percentage of society, and on TV it was commonplace, and some people like Shane Sutton obviously are much slower to catch on to the change in society that has taken place.
I'm sure all of us of a certain age remember the Spastics Society shops in all of our towns, collecting for the charity of the same name, nowadays that would seem abhorrent to a lot of people who would no doubt be outraged on Twitter if it were around.

I think you are doing the Spastics Society (now called Scope) a disservice there. It was a purely innocent name until a generation of children (mine!) adopted it as an insult after Joey Deacon appeared on Blue Peter.

I was just trying to point out that language changes and just because some old sod hasn't, there shouldn't be a witch hunt against him.

rick_chasey

It's about context Klein.

The quote gets picked up in the press because it's a useful hanger on which to put the broader issue on.

Don't take it out of that context.

top_bhoy

kleinstroker wrote:

Darren555 wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Yes calling disabled people gimps in this day and age is pretty bad, but not worth resigning or getting sacked over IMO. It wasn't so long ago, disabled people were called far worse by a fair percentage of society, and on TV it was commonplace, and some people like Shane Sutton obviously are much slower to catch on to the change in society that has taken place.
I'm sure all of us of a certain age remember the Spastics Society shops in all of our towns, collecting for the charity of the same name, nowadays that would seem abhorrent to a lot of people who would no doubt be outraged on Twitter if it were around.

I think you are doing the Spastics Society (now called Scope) a disservice there. It was a purely innocent name until a generation of children (mine!) adopted it as an insult after Joey Deacon appeared on Blue Peter.

I was just trying to point out that language changes and just because some old sod hasn't, there shouldn't be a witch hunt against him.

Really...what a neanderthal attitude. If a senior figure at any organisation cannot act in a way which doesn't offend people then they simply shouldn't be there. Making excuses for sexist and bullying behaviour doesn't help those affected by the perpetrator nor encourage corporate sponsors to come on board.

Mad_Malx

BBC report that Programmes Director Andy Harrison it taking over Sutton's role.

Apparently he is currently completing a PhD investigating performance leadership.
Looks like he will have to write another chapter.

kleinstroker

Top_Bhoy wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Darren555 wrote:

...

I think you are doing the Spastics Society (now called Scope) a disservice there. It was a purely innocent name until a generation of children (mine!) adopted it as an insult after Joey Deacon appeared on Blue Peter.

I was just trying to point out that language changes and just because some old sod hasn't, there shouldn't be a witch hunt against him.

Really...what a neanderthal attitude. If a senior figure at any organisation cannot act in a way which doesn't offend people then they simply shouldn't be there. Making excuses for sexist and bullying behaviour doesn't help those affected by the perpetrator nor encourage corporate sponsors to come on board.

What kind of neo pc claptrap is that? People are far too easily offended nowadays, having someone offend you for whatever reason is pretty minor in the grand old scheme of things.
Bullying is different though and I agree that nobody should feel bullied to the extent they are not able to do their job.

blazing_saddles

Nothing much to be found on the internet, as yet. Only this, today:-

[Shane Sutton] is a top athlete, a real rough, tough Aussie who works hard and plays hard. Jess Varnish needs to take a leaf out of her namesake Jess Ennis-Hills' book, who's polite, unassuming and who lets her talent do the talking."

Tony Doyle Former president of the British Cycling Federation

Much to say in a Radio 5 interview today.
He talks of BC being in turmoil, explains Sutton's role and his importance to riders in the days and final moments before taking to the track in major competitions.
Gives a depressingly bleak forecast for Rio.

nickice

Top_Bhoy wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Darren555 wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Yes calling disabled people gimps in this day and age is pretty bad, but not worth resigning or getting sacked over IMO. It wasn't so long ago, disabled people were called far worse by a fair percentage of society, and on TV it was commonplace, and some people like Shane Sutton obviously are much slower to catch on to the change in society that has taken place.
I'm sure all of us of a certain age remember the Spastics Society shops in all of our towns, collecting for the charity of the same name, nowadays that would seem abhorrent to a lot of people who would no doubt be outraged on Twitter if it were around.

I think you are doing the Spastics Society (now called Scope) a disservice there. It was a purely innocent name until a generation of children (mine!) adopted it as an insult after Joey Deacon appeared on Blue Peter.

I was just trying to point out that language changes and just because some old sod hasn't, there shouldn't be a witch hunt against him.

Really...what a neanderthal attitude. If a senior figure at any organisation cannot act in a way which doesn't offend people then they simply shouldn't be there. Making excuses for sexist and bullying behaviour doesn't help those affected by the perpetrator nor encourage corporate sponsors to come on board.

Telling an athlete they're too fat or not good enough may offend them. But it might not. It's all subjective. Competitive sport is a cut-throat world.

ddraver

There are some major deviations from the facts in these last 2 pages...

ddraver

DP.