Rio Olympics - track cycling

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

She makes some very good points and even today there's an inequality on the road side of things. However, all the conversation above has been in relation to the track and in particular Jess's claims which are a step up in severity. From what I've seen the track squad are treated evenly with the same kit being provided and squad sizes attending events being similar (there's slightly fewer women due to the difference in TS and, until recently, TP sizes). The article almost implies that differences in the men's and women's events are somehow BC's fault rather than the UCI's.

I think there are a couple of things that she has seen as inequality that aren't though.

Firstly, there being no Olympic test event. These races are run for the benefit of the organisers as a technical run through, not for the benefit of athletes. They only need to do one race and the men are more guaranteed to provide a significantly large start list.

The McLaren bikes for the men's Olympic teams. Surely this came about due to Cavendish's personal relationship with McLaren rather than anything to do with British Cycling. (And they were just unmarked Specialized prototypes weren't they?).

Also 'Project Rainbow' was made possible by all the British riders actually liking Cavendish and getting along, while the women all seem to dislike each other.

rick_chasey

That's all fairly flimsy.

Tend to side with Cooke in that respect.

Pross

Exactly and Nicole has raised general issues rather than personal ones. She was also someone who raised issues while she was still riding rather than when she'd lost her place on the team. I'm probably over cynical but the situation with Varnish reads like this to me which is why I have issues with it:-

1. Fails to produce the necessary result at a home world champs to qualify the team sprint.
2. Rather than accept responsibility for this failure goes to talk to the press blaming the coaching / selection policies.
3. Gets taken to task for those comments and booted off squad on the grounds of performance.
4. Goes off to the press making previously undisclosed accusations of sexism.

The problem I have with this is that in the case of points 2 and 4 her comments should have been made internally to BC in the first instance not the press. Presumably the squad has a de-brief following races and her concerns about the changing of the TS squad (which I have some sympathy for) should have been raised there. Likewise, if there is sexism within the BC performance set up (which I don't rule out) then the correct process is to raise a grievance with her employer and if that gets nowhere use the official whistleblowing processes.

wallace_and_gromit

Road cycling even at Weekend Warrior level is horribly sexist. At one point two years ago my Good Lady had over 300 Strava "Queens" but was still routinely patronised (*) by fat blokes in the "all gear no idea" category at sportives. (Well at least at the start - they tended to change their tune by the end if the Good Lady hadn't already packed up and gone home when they wheezed their way in.)

Men also found it incredibly hard not to race her on climbs. We often did sportives together, with me tending to lead. (She might have been fiercely independent, but humoured me by letting me ride in the wind all the time!) When I went past a bloke, we'd exchange traditional greetings, with no obvious change in relative pace. When the Good Lady came past, the blokes would almost invariably throw the kitchen sink into getting to the top of the climb before her, even if they were clearly a lot slower and doomed to blow up.

Basically, male DNA is hardcoded with the belief that "girls" don't ride road bikes.

(*) e.g. jokes about not being able to fix punctures, suggesting she should ride round with someone, providing unwanted coaching advice, asking why she didn't have pink handlebar tape etc.

I'd have more sympathy for Nicole Cooke's views if she and Lizzie hadn't so publicly been unwilling to coordinate efforts in the WCRR a few years back. Even Froome and Wiggins managed to just about keep it together in 2012 when their other halfs went to war on Twitter. That said, if Nicole and Lizzie are on the same side of an argument, there's probably a lot of mileage in it!

rick_chasey

You do see a lot of guys upping the pace on the commute when they're passed by women, true story.

Having said that at my club there's very little sexism at all that I've seen. Then again, some of their most successful racers have been women and they regularly bury anyone and everyone who gives it a crack, so perhaps women are treated like cyclists rather than female cyclists.

wallace_and_gromit

Rick Chasey wrote:

...so perhaps women are treated like cyclists rather than female cyclists.

That's a fair point. The Good Lady rode for an entire off-season with the local club and once she'd clearly proved she could keep up, ride safely and do her own running repairs, she was just AN Other rider.

Older male riders, perhaps more "traditional" in their world views than younger guys these days seem to have most problems.

Stridor

Statement from Jess Varnish:

My contract was not renewed by British Cycling after the 2016 World Championships. I appealed the decision with the help of the British Athlete’s Commission and was unsuccessful. I received a termination email from Shane Sutton and within it it said that the door at British Cycling was always open if I met the criteria. He told me to prove him wrong. I asked for a meeting with Shane and Iain Dyer to discuss my data and the criteria but this was repeatedly declined. Despite this, and the comments made to me, I resolved to get my head down and continue training in the hope to show British Cycling that I was still good enough for Rio 2016 and beyond. To prove them wrong. I was also told by British Cycling that they did not comment publicly or announce when a rider’s membership isn’t renewed. I therefore made the decision not to discuss the decision publicly as well.

When Shane Sutton gave his interview to the Telegraph discussing my situation I was devastated. I wasn’t offered the chance to comment, I only found out about the interview once it had been published and he said in his interview that I was ’too old’ and 'not worth wasting UK Sport’s money’. It was at this point that I realised my career with British Cycling, in Shane Sutton’s eyes, was over, and that I would never get a fair trial or opportunity to compete for Great Britain again while Shane is the performance director. There was no longer any point in staying quiet. He told everyone that my Rio 2016 dream was over before telling me. This is why I decided to speak out, I obviously no longer have anything to lose and can no longer trust Shane or those in charge at British Cycling to be fair.
The comment that Shane Sutton told me ’to go and have a baby’ is true. I stand by all my statements in the Daily Mail interview and have examples of other comments made to me during my time at British Cycling by Shane Sutton dating back many years.

I have been contacted by the HR Manager at British Cycling, following the Daily Mail article, but I am unsure as to what the purpose of the contact is. I have asked them to share with me the code of conduct they implement alongside the Athlete agreement we sign and also what processes are open to me as a member of British Cycling to pursue my complaints regarding Shane Sutton. I am awaiting their response.

I have been amazed by the response and support shown to me since the Daily Mail interview. I have been contacted by other riders both present and past, to say that they have experienced similar behaviour at British Cycling. I am aware that some people at British cycling are afraid to come forward due to the culture of fear that exists, as they don’t want to lose their jobs. I am not alone in my experience and I’m glad that a few feel more confident to speak up as a result of my interview.

With regards to my contract not being renewed on performance grounds, I find this very hard to accept. Prior to the 2016 World Championships I was not once told that I was underperforming. We have monthly reviews and at no stage was I put under review, or set performance targets to keep my place on the programme. The first I knew that the coaches had an issue with my performance levels was 5 days after the 2016 World Championships, when I was told I wouldn’t be getting a new contract over the phone.

During the 2 year Olympic qualifying process, I gained more qualifying points than any other British female sprint rider. I was consistently performing in the top 5 in the World for Lap 1 times in the Team Sprint, and I have also qualified Olympic places in the individual Sprint and Keirin. Since 2012 I have won medals at the World & European Championships and Commonwealth Games.

At 25 years old I feel my best years are ahead of me. Sprinters such as Jamie Staff, Victoria Pendleton and Chris Hoy, all achieved success well into their thirties, so I refuse to believe that my career is finished.

I want a fair chance to compete for my country. I feel that chance is being denied to me unfairly. I also want to change the culture at British Cycling and their treatment of women. I hope that by shining a light on this culture, and sharing my experiences, the relevant people can investigate and make changes. If they do then this can only benefit all involved, who want to work hard and compete for Great Britain, in a safe and fair environment.

For now I remain open to sharing my experiences with both British Cycling and/or UK Sport, and will happily engage with any investigations into the comments that Shane Sutton has made to me, and other riders. I would prefer to do this privately, however to date this hasn’t been an option.

I also want to compete for Great Britain again. I am not too old. I am not a waste of UK Sport’s money. I can win more medals.

Jess

- See more at: http://www.jessicavarnish.com/news/1761 ... KLSzN.dpuf

daniel_b

That is a statement and a half, lot of care and thought gone into that - fair play to her.

slowmart

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36138046

Pendleton and Cooke have come out in support Varnish.

hangeron

Jenny Copnall's twitter feed is interesting too

https://twitter.com/JennyCopnall
She's written it up for STW now

http://singletrackworld.com/columns/201 ... h-cycling/

blazing_saddles

Now here is the view of the last Olympian to get cut from the track squad:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/olymp ... 34076.html

Note the one comment underneath.
Folks taking from this story what the wish, regardless.

slowbike

Hmm ...

I would hope that the writeup in singletrackworld is not true - but I rather suspect it is.
As a British Cycling member I'd like them to provide reasonable answers to the allegations currently coming out.
I completely accept that they have limited funding and can only fund riders who they believe to have a future - but to not allow the top rider to enter a world championship event is rediculous.

Blunt, to the point, even telling someone to "go have a baby" may be acceptable in the right context - they're there to enable the top cyclists to compete at world level ...

Seriously re-considering my BC membership right now.

RoadPainter

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Now here is the view of the last Olympian to get cut from the track squad:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/olymp ... 34076.html

Note the one comment underneath.
Folks taking from this story what the wish, regardless.

I think that will always be the case.

I still don't understand why this was done before Rio. There is surely a miniscule upside in cutting an experienced team member 6 months before the key objective. There are huge potential downsides, even before considering this PR distraction.

salsiccia1

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Now here is the view of the last Olympian to get cut from the track squad:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/olymp ... 34076.html

Note the one comment underneath.
Folks taking from this story what the wish, regardless.

A cynic may say she is still hoping to get selected for the Rio road race, so might want to stay onside... :twisted:

But in seriousness, riders are just saying what they've experienced. Your family's experiences are positive, others' are negative. It's not a case of people taking what they wish, it's that the negative experiences with BC amongst women cyclists look to be the more numerous, and people want to know the truth. It's obviously somewhere in the middle, but how close to the unacceptable? I'd like to know too.

The_Boy

Pross wrote:

Exactly and Nicole has raised general issues rather than personal ones. She was also someone who raised issues while she was still riding rather than when she'd lost her place on the team.

Some people won't have the balls to speak out about something if they fear it might affect their employment. It's not like Olympic athletes can just go sign for another team.

RichN95.

hangeron wrote:

Jenny Copnall's twitter feed is interesting too

https://twitter.com/JennyCopnall
She's written it up for STW now

http://singletrackworld.com/columns/201 ... h-cycling/

Rachel Atherton doesn't seem to have had any problems in MTB. But then she's actually good and not finishing outside the top 40.

ddraver

The Athertons (most - if not all of GB downhill) also has very little to do with BC, any MTB basically doesn't exist to BC and never has.

the GB success in DH is 90% down to Steve Peat (and maybe Red Bull)

A part of me is beginning to suspect that when the Winning Bubble bursts (and it will one day) that the fallout may be incredibly vicious

Pross

The_Boy wrote:

Pross wrote:

Exactly and Nicole has raised general issues rather than personal ones. She was also someone who raised issues while she was still riding rather than when she'd lost her place on the team.

Some people won't have the balls to speak out about something if they fear it might affect their employment. It's not like Olympic athletes can just go sign for another team.

But if the atmosphere is so full of bullying and sexism why would you want to stay there? It's not like these riders are in a highly paid job for life and all the stuff that means you put up with it until a new job comes along. At some point they'll be out and having to start a new career so why put up with it for a few years especially if you've already experienced the pinnacle of your career, riding at a home Olympics?

stagehopper

ddraver wrote:

The Athertons (most - if not all of GB downhill) also has very little to do with BC, any MTB basically doesn't exist to BC and never has.

the GB success in DH is 90% down to Steve Peat (and maybe Red Bull)

A part of me is beginning to suspect that when the Winning Bubble bursts (and it will one day) that the fallout may be incredibly vicious

The other two GB riders filling the top three places in the UCI MTB DH World Cup, Manon Carpenter and Tahnee Seagrave, also effectively outside the BC system with their own trade teams. I think the likes of Katy Curd and Tracey Moseley have been very effective in mentoring some of the younger riders from what I've read.

ddraver

yes, that read wrong as the Athertons are most of UK DH, that's not what I meant. I meant that most of UK DH is outside BC as you say

Richmond Racer 2

ddraver wrote:

The Athertons (most - if not all of GB downhill) also has very little to do with BC, any MTB basically doesn't exist to BC and never has.

the GB success in DH is 90% down to Steve Peat (and maybe Red Bull)

A part of me is beginning to suspect that when the Winning Bubble bursts (and it will one day) that the fallout may be incredibly vicious

Hmmm

There are knives out. That's all I'll say for now.


Edit: just been ticked off for not being cool so forget the above

rick_chasey

RR - it'd be much more cool to not reference it at all, rather than dropping the " I know but I can't/won't say" chat.

Richmond Racer 2

Rick Chasey wrote:

RR - it'd be much more cool to not reference it at all, rather than dropping the " I know but I can't/won't say" chat.

No Rick, it's nothing to do with 'I know but I can't say'. It's obvious that the knives are out now - inside and outside of BC - and that really is all I feel there is to say about the situation. From where I'm sitting.

rick_chasey

Ok. Sure.

Richmond Racer 2

Phew. Glad we got that sorted

salsiccia1

Pross wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Pross wrote:

Exactly and Nicole has raised general issues rather than personal ones. She was also someone who raised issues while she was still riding rather than when she'd lost her place on the team.

Some people won't have the balls to speak out about something if they fear it might affect their employment. It's not like Olympic athletes can just go sign for another team.

But if the atmosphere is so full of bullying and sexism why would you want to stay there? It's not like these riders are in a highly paid job for life and all the stuff that means you put up with it until a new job comes along. At some point they'll be out and having to start a new career so why put up with it for a few years especially if you've already experienced the pinnacle of your career, riding at a home Olympics?

Some may still want a medal, and maybe they put up with it for that, especially if they're concerned that not putting up with it means being sidelined and missing out on the goal of a medal as opposed to just riding an Olympics. And maybe once that incentive is taken away, they feel free to speak out.

DeadCalm

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RR - it'd be much more cool to not reference it at all, rather than dropping the " I know but I can't/won't say" chat.

No Rick, it's nothing to do with 'I know but I can't say'. It's obvious that the knives are out now - inside and outside of BC - and that really is all I feel there is to say about the situation. From where I'm sitting.

You clearly have nothing more to offer this thread. If I were Shane Sutton (which thank the Lord I'm not) maybe I'd suggest you should go off and have a baby?

The_Boy

Pross wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Pross wrote:

Exactly and Nicole has raised general issues rather than personal ones. She was also someone who raised issues while she was still riding rather than when she'd lost her place on the team.

Some people won't have the balls to speak out about something if they fear it might affect their employment. It's not like Olympic athletes can just go sign for another team.

But if the atmosphere is so full of bullying and sexism why would you want to stay there?

What an odd thing to ask. You don't think that just maybe someone might be willing to put up with a higher level of shit to maintain their brief career as an elite athlete than they might in other areas of life.

I've worked in some frankly poisonous environments and seen people put up with all levels of horrible shit to keep food on the table. I pass no judgement on what has been going on at BC, but "why didn't she speak up sooner/why didn't she leave" is a straw man - and a poor one at that.

blazing_saddles

DeadCalm wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RR - it'd be much more cool to not reference it at all, rather than dropping the " I know but I can't/won't say" chat.

No Rick, it's nothing to do with 'I know but I can't say'. It's obvious that the knives are out now - inside and outside of BC - and that really is all I feel there is to say about the situation. From where I'm sitting.

You clearly have nothing more to offer this thread.

Me neither.

The_Boy

Blazing Saddles wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

RR - it'd be much more cool to not reference it at all, rather than dropping the " I know but I can't/won't say" chat.

No Rick, it's nothing to do with 'I know but I can't say'. It's obvious that the knives are out now - inside and outside of BC - and that really is all I feel there is to say about the situation. From where I'm sitting.

You clearly have nothing more to offer this thread.

Me neither.

Perhaps *you* should have a baby?